I hate synthetic brushes

[Sweeney_]

Plus my cat loves to mouse my badger brushes or grab them off the counter and bat them around like a mouse.

That's badger but he prefers a Synbad synth.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

I used synthetic brushes (mostly Muhle) for about 10 years. From an utilitarian perspective, they did the job fine and I did not have a real interest in spending more money and trying out natural knots. I got my first badger somewhere two years ago. Since then, I acquired more and more badgers and only use the synthetics when I travel.

The reasons why I switched to badgers are they retain more water, lather, they don't drip (on the floor, sink or my arms) and I can face or bowl lather equally well. With a synthetic, I have to go back to the bowl to reload the brush with lather and/or water, which is not the case with a badger.

 

[Andris83]

I'm not a fan of synthetics, but I have only used one. But, for new wet shavers on a budget, it is nice there is an inexpensive brush option. I know there are more than just new shavers that enjoy synthetics, but I am not one of them

pretty much everything has already been said in this thread. to each their own, use what you prefer, etc, etc...
however, some hardcore badger fans "looking down" on "cheap" synths is what my brain can't take. they are not worse, they are cheaper, but otoh beat badgers in any _objective_ property. yes, the feel(notice that face feel is subjective) of a badger brush will not be replicated by a synth. I don't expect it to, it does not make it "cheap", it makes it different. prefer badger? use it, but don't look down on synths please.

p.s.: you might not have meant it like that, but every time I read a similar comment of "good for budget shavers" I feel like it.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

but otoh beat badgers in any _objective_ property

That is subjective, not objective because synthetic brushes do not beat badgers in any property.

 

[Andris83]

That is subjective, not objective because synthetic brushes do not beat badgers in any property.

to me the only category where they don't win is face feel, and even that is not better or worse, just different. badgers have a certain face feel, so do synths, so do boars.
otherwise, synths lather better, faster and more efficiently, using less soap. you can get synths with so much backbone it is hard to splay them, or you can get one that splays immediately and everything inbetween. the often mentioned "springiness" is a thing of the past, as far as I can tell has been gone for a good 5+ years. they dry twice as fast, not that it matters, as everyone here has more than enough brushes to rotate. furthermore, you can pretty much abuse a synth, mash it, swirl it, they will take it. (except maybe some world famous manufacturer's brushes that are forbidden to swirl).

I'm writing this so that my current favorite is a boar (Proraso Pro).

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

@Andris83 , please read my message above, where I gave some examples where badgers are better than synthetics. I am pretty sure that is a well known thing, which technically would disqualify synthetic brushes as being objectively better. But then you also came up with a contra argument to your own statement.

 

[ajkel64]

Gents we are entitled to have an opinion. We differ in opinion on some things. We need to be respectful when someone has a different opinion to ours.

 

[Andris83]

@Andris83 , please read my message above, where I gave some examples where badgers are better than synthetics. I am pretty sure that is a well known thing, which technically would disqualify synthetic brushes as being objectively better. But then you also came up with a contra argument to your own statement.

yes, I see. In my experience, a similarly sized synth holds more lather than the same sized natural knot. but I don't have a big sample size of badgers. the same applies to boars, I must bowl lather to get 3 passes worth of lather, even with 27mm knots. otoh, a 24mm synths holds enough lather in the knot for my 3 passes even after a face lather.

the water retention topic is interesting. they are different, as natural hair absorbs water and synth fibers do not. as someone said above, if you don't shake out a synth, water will be coming out of the knot as soon as you splay it. to me this is an operational characteristic. there is an optimal way of using badgers, boars and synths. all 3 require slightly different technique, so I have subtracted this from the comparison, thinking that one uses a tools as it needs to be used optimally.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

all 3 require slightly different technique

I agree with this part.

In my opinion, they are all usable (badger, boar, synthetic and horse) with the right technique/approach, each one having some pro's and con's. I also don't see a certain brush being better than others by a big margin. In the end, it is just a matter of individual preference. Some may value a, b, c, others d, e, f. Luckily, there are multiple options to choose from.

What I think we can all agree with is that golden retriever hair brushes are not good enough. They are too floppy, don't lather well and may stink. A major advantage would be that people would be willing to offer them for free though. Again, pro's and con's.

Cheers everyone and enjoy your brushes, regardless of what kind it is.

 

[AU55IE]

One thing that cannot be ignored is that plastic simply cannot absorb water in each strand. Natural hair reacts very differently to water than a synthetic does. I am not saying that it is impossible to avoid water dripping down ones arm or going everywhere but that it requires a different technique for synthetics.
Any brush can release tons of water if you drown it regardless of fibres used. It's always a good idea to just have a damp enough brush but not completely saturated but to each their own.
My experiences with synthetics in relation to water is that there should be just enough water on the knot to assist with the correct/optimal amount of friction on the soap when loading and on your face when lathering after which point you can add more and more water in small doses in order to achieve the feel, lather consistency and density you are after.
When it comes to natural brushes it covers the above as well as many other aspects which changes the characteristics of the brush itself.

We are all trying to find our optimal settings for a great shave and experience.
People are entitled to use what they like and enjoy it but I also would like to encourage the conversation so I am glad to continue that.

I am sure there are valid reasons for people to use one over the other and its not up to me to dictate how anyone shaves. We all have our preferences as long as we enjoy our shaves and the end results are to our liking.

It would just be nice to continue to have options. It would be a shame if natural brushes were completely phased out as they are truly my favourite.

One of the biggest problems regarding synthetic brushes as far as being a consumer is there is absolutely no standard of grading and therefore it is difficult to gauge what you are truly going to get or even have the slightest idea. Some brands might have their own little grading scheme going on but how exactly does that translate across one brand to another is a mystery. Half the times the knots are probably the same and brands probably just operate under this ambiguity to optimize their sales as they often are likely the same and just have a different name and different price to match. Buying a synthetic brush can be seen as the equivalent of blind buying a scent and just buying it based on brand and looks without knowing the scent notes or even what concentrate they are (EDP, EDT, EDC etc). It would just be nice to have some sort of grading that everyone can conform to.

I guess that is why we have platforms such as this so we can share our findings and help one another.

 

[musicman1951]

I personally love either using a badger or boar hair brush in that order. I have two synthetic brushes both in my opinion suck. They are great for the chin but on the cheeks they act like a paint brush. Where as my natural fiber brushes don’t act that way. Am I the only person who feels that way?

My favorite brush is a badger and my top 5 include 2 badgers, 1 boar, 1 boar/badger mix and a synthetic.

A couple of things come to mind. Shavers like different brush experiences. Some like serious scritch from their brush, while I absolutely hate it. Some can't get enough backbone, some like 'em pretty floppy. It's all good.

You have two synthetics that suck. Which two? I have 8 synthetics and they go from major suckage to lovely. Unfortunately, and this will drive some people crazy (sorry), the quality follows the prices up to some pretty serious coinage. I've got a couple of $15 synths that do an amazing job for the money. Yes, they throw lather around the room and have the backbone of damp pasta, but they really do get the job done (although I don't use them any more). I have the EVO and STF that were in the $70 range and they are a huge improvement. Then there's the Wald in the $250 range that is really on a whole 'nother level.

So when you ask how I feel about synthetic brushes which one do you mean?

It's the same story with badgers. None of my Semogue badgers had any funky smell, but I know what it is from an Omega boar - and it's disgusting. Badgers can be purchased with the stink and scratchy tips on one end of the spectrum and something like my Kent BK8 on the other end - large beautiful brush that hasn't lost 4 hairs in the last ten years, with tips so soft I have to force myself to stop lathering and get to shaving. And it's not in my top 5. And if you like scratchy tips you can find a high quality badger with those as well.

So when we say badger which one are we talking about.

I don't expect everyone to amass a small collection so they experience the whole spectrum - and mine is a lot smaller than some of yours - but we might want to consider being less general about brush categories that contain such a wide variety of experiences.

And there are shavers who think our impression of sucky synthetics are actually the best thing since sliced bread (which is a ridiculous idiom - just helps it get stale quicker) - and that's a good thing. Lots of choices and all of them perfect for someone.

The hair/plastic you prefer is a fine choice for you, and I encourage everyone to be happy with their choice and have great shaves (even though we all know we're not on the synthetic and blade forum).

 

[KW Driver]

I used synthetic brushes (mostly Muhle) for about 10 years. From an utilitarian perspective, they did the job fine and I did not have a real interest in spending more money and trying out natural knots. I got my first badger somewhere two years ago. Since then, I acquired more and more badgers and only use the synthetics when I travel.

The reasons why I switched to badgers are they retain more water, lather, they don't drip (on the floor, sink or my arms) and I can face or bowl lather equally well. With a synthetic, I have to go back to the bowl to reload the brush with lather and/or water, which is not the case with a badger.

And nothing retains heat/warmth between passes like badger. That’s a meaningful factor on cold days for me.

Hot days? I don’t want a badger making me sweat after coming out of a shower, so boars on most days.

Horse is too scritchy and easily tangled.

Synths as a face latherer are just… Not as good and a meh face feel/performance beyond building a lather.

 

[Salty_Shaver]

One from Amazon that came with a razor stand and one from Rockwell both are garbage. I won’t spend money on petroleum based brushes. I never had a badger or boar that truly sucked. They all performed well. Not slapping and flopping around like a stiff 2 dollar paint brush from Walmart. First fake shave brush junk second one from Rockwell sucked. Cheapest badger off amazon never a problem. I personally will not spend any more money on a product that two different manufacturers made produce the same poor results. I figure all synthetic brushes are the same. Because they’re made from polyester and it’s uniform and the molecules are structured the same. I am sure there’s a plant that makes the strands of polyester either in India, China or some other nation that every company buys from so they are all the same. I just will not waste money to find out if there’s a better fake bristle brush out there.

 

[Andris83]

One thing that cannot be ignored is that plastic simply cannot absorb water in each strand. Natural hair reacts very differently to water than a synthetic does. I am not saying that it is impossible to avoid water dripping down ones arm or going everywhere but that it requires a different technique for synthetics.
Any brush can release tons of water if you drown it regardless of fibres used. It's always a good idea to just have a damp enough brush but not completely saturated but to each their own.
My experiences with synthetics in relation to water is that there should be just enough water on the knot to assist with the correct/optimal amount of friction on the soap when loading and on your face when lathering after which point you can add more and more water in small doses in order to achieve the feel, lather consistency and density you are after.
When it comes to natural brushes it covers the above as well as many other aspects which changes the characteristics of the brush itself.

We are all trying to find our optimal settings for a great shave and experience.
People are entitled to use what they like and enjoy it but I also would like to encourage the conversation so I am glad to continue that.

I am sure there are valid reasons for people to use one over the other and its not up to me to dictate how anyone shaves. We all have our preferences as long as we enjoy our shaves and the end results are to our liking.

It would just be nice to continue to have options. It would be a shame if natural brushes were completely phased out as they are truly my favourite.

One of the biggest problems regarding synthetic brushes as far as being a consumer is there is absolutely no standard of grading and therefore it is difficult to gauge what you are truly going to get or even have the slightest idea. Some brands might have their own little grading scheme going on but how exactly does that translate across one brand to another is a mystery. Half the times the knots are probably the same and brands probably just operate under this ambiguity to optimize their sales as they often are likely the same and just have a different name and different price to match. Buying a synthetic brush can be seen as the equivalent of blind buying a scent and just buying it based on brand and looks without knowing the scent notes or even what concentrate they are (EDP, EDT, EDC etc). It would just be nice to have some sort of grading that everyone can conform to.

I guess that is why we have platforms such as this so we can share our findings and help one another.

there is no 100% emoji reaction, so here it is:

 

[blade08]

One thing that gets overlooked, is the reason why synthetic brushes were developed in the first place.

Let's face it, using a shaving brush is not something many (younger) men do anymore because of the convenience of foams, gels and electric razors etc. Couple that to the 21st century, an era in which everything gets questioned.

Companies such as Mühle likely realised that you can no longer convince a 21st century young man to ditch aerosol products with a product that contains the hair of some dead animal and will smell like a wet dog when you first use.

This was good enough in the 20th century for the lack anything better. But with internet and all, todays young men ask questions where former generations just accepted things as they were.

 

[Feldgrun]

I'd recommend trying out some great inexpensive synthetics that may change your mind:

RazoRock Bruce, $14

PAA Amber Aerolite $20

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I figure all synthetic brushes are the same.

I assure you that's not the case.

Having tried a few synthetics and having discovered I did not like any of them, I set out to discover if there might be a synthetic I'd like well enough to use as a travel brush. In the service of that quest a thread asking a question was started, I'm thinking of buying one and only one synthetic, which one should I buy?

A fair number of gentlemen gave me very good advice about which synthetics were the best. Ultimately I picked one synthetic brush. It turned out to be way better than any synthetic I'd previously tried. It also reminds me of good three band silvertips.

It's fine with me, and probably with everyone else, if you never try a single synthetic, but they're not all the same.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[RRGGMM]

pretty much everything has already been said in this thread. to each their own, use what you prefer, etc, etc...
however, some hardcore badger fans "looking down" on "cheap" synths is what my brain can't take. they are not worse, they are cheaper, but otoh beat badgers in any _objective_ property. yes, the feel(notice that face feel is subjective) of a badger brush will not be replicated by a synth. I don't expect it to, it does not make it "cheap", it makes it different. prefer badger? use it, but don't look down on synths please.

p.s.: you might not have meant it like that, but every time I read a similar comment of "good for budget shavers" I feel like it.

I only meant that synthetics are very good for the price, which is great for someone on a budget. My example of the AoS badger brush that was a *** was an attempt to illustrate that. My opinion about synthetics was not the point, and I was simply expressing that today, an inexpensive synthetic is likely a decent brush, whereas an inexpensive badger probably isn't. I didn't imply you were a "budget shaver" and I do not care what someone chooses for their shaving kit. When I was getting into wet shaving, I was taken aback at the prices of good brushes and would have likely been happy if there were good, inexpensive synthetic brushes at the time. I never intended to cast any judgment about what brush anyone uses or what price they pay.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I tried quite a few synth brushes.... I sold or gave away most of them. My wife uses the last two I have. I gave her a choice of 4 or 5 and she chose the Rudy Vey STF and a Alpha Shaving G5"D".... They are both very soft. The last one to go was the Omega Evo Original... I gave that one to a deserving B&B member and he uses it lot.

I rotate 7 badgers.... all two band.... all excellent and on the large size. I used my 4 boar brushes for DecemBOAR.. and was glad to use one of my SV badgers for that first January shave... It was nice to be back to my badgers.

I haven't tried the Wald, but if forced to guess... I think a Wald would be too soft for me. I like the gentle scrub I get from my two-band badgers. I doubt I'd enjoy a badger 3 band Silvertip either.

I hand lathered a shaving cream today.... We're going to be on a 3 week trip and I'm not taking any brushes with me. Truth be told, I hand lathered for years and years... decades... It was sort of a return to my former norm... and wasn't all that bad. I'm sure when we get back that last week in March, I'll love using an SV brush again....just like in January.

 

[Andris83]

I only meant that synthetics are very good for the price, which is great for someone on a budget. My example of the AoS badger brush that was a *** was an attempt to illustrate that. My opinion about synthetics was not the point, and I was simply expressing that today, an inexpensive synthetic is likely a decent brush, whereas an inexpensive badger probably isn't. I didn't imply you were a "budget shaver" and I do not care what someone chooses for their shaving kit. When I was getting into wet shaving, I was taken aback at the prices of good brushes and would have likely been happy if there were good, inexpensive synthetic brushes at the time. I never intended to cast any judgment about what brush anyone uses or what price they pay.

I didn't take it personally. I have enough gear not to be a budget shaver (not that it would be a problem). Our opinion differ quite much on this topic, lets leave it at that.