Alright you old-timers out there, do you have any honing-oil formulas that you can share? Is it is as simple as mineral oil mixed with kerosene, and if so, in what proportion? Something similar to Norton's honing oil or Dan's finest?
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Honing Oil Recipes
- Thread starter Alum of Potash
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- #2
No takers? How about the following: one part mineral oil to one part kerosene or mineral spirits. This follows U.S. jargon. I will be seeking to make it in France in the not-too-distant future, where I think it would be described as one part "huile de paraffine" to one part "[FONT="]kérosène[/FONT]" or "white spirit." Can anyone confirm this or correct me here?
I wouldn't hesitate to use ATF as a base -
Let me apologize for this right now - its late and my mind is running on 3 cylinders.
See, I make my own bore cleaner, following a well-known recipe out on the 'net...
Seems that - back in the day, the US Army used a bore cleaner with an ingredient that is no longer available today.
... wait for it... sperm whale oil.... Yes, it's true, I have the old US Army Manual with that recipe in it here somewhere.
Anyway - the bore cleaner recipe I use includes ATF... Dextron or something like that. It also includes mineral spirits, kero, Lanolin (I kid you not), and something else I can't remember right now.
Why am I talking about bore cleaner you ask?
So - Ok - seems that sperm whale oil was also used in/as transmission fluid.
And ATF is supposedly a synthetic lubricant that is similar to the sperm whale oil based trans-fluid. That's why the guy that posted the bore cleaner recipe chose it. Can't get Sperm Whale oil anymore.
Hold on - here comes the pearl... ... people used to hone on Arkansas stones with sperm whale oil... yes, it's true...
Seriously, I don't make this stuff up. I've seen it on paper labels inside the box of vintage hones.
So - if I was going to mess around with your idea - I'd start with Dextron ATF.
Let me apologize for this right now - its late and my mind is running on 3 cylinders.
See, I make my own bore cleaner, following a well-known recipe out on the 'net...
Seems that - back in the day, the US Army used a bore cleaner with an ingredient that is no longer available today.
... wait for it... sperm whale oil.... Yes, it's true, I have the old US Army Manual with that recipe in it here somewhere.
Anyway - the bore cleaner recipe I use includes ATF... Dextron or something like that. It also includes mineral spirits, kero, Lanolin (I kid you not), and something else I can't remember right now.
Why am I talking about bore cleaner you ask?
So - Ok - seems that sperm whale oil was also used in/as transmission fluid.
And ATF is supposedly a synthetic lubricant that is similar to the sperm whale oil based trans-fluid. That's why the guy that posted the bore cleaner recipe chose it. Can't get Sperm Whale oil anymore.
Hold on - here comes the pearl... ... people used to hone on Arkansas stones with sperm whale oil... yes, it's true...
Seriously, I don't make this stuff up. I've seen it on paper labels inside the box of vintage hones.
So - if I was going to mess around with your idea - I'd start with Dextron ATF.
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I use angel sweat and hooker spit....
*(not really... Just regular ole extra virgin olive oil)....
*(not really... Just regular ole extra virgin olive oil)....
Doesn't it get rancid on the stones after a while?
how do they extract the oil from the.... oh...wait... nevermind...
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- #7
Thanks for the advice. I think I've posted a link to the norsewoodsmith.com site before, but the following was given in a section dealing with oil stones [italics, blue lettering, and boldface added]:
Honing Oil.
An important part of oil stones is obvious in the name - oil. A few drops to cover the surface of the stone as you're sharpening should be enough. Wipe the excess swarf away occasionally when it gets too thick with metal shavings with a clean rag, and apply a few more drops. It doesn't have to be messy, though you should separate your sharpening area from your woodworking area. Always wipe down the tool and wash your hands before returning to woodworking. Honing Oil.
Days past saw names such as neatsfoot, sperm oil - I can't say that I've ever used those older varieties of oil. I always just used a lightweight oil - mineral oil mixed 50/50 with kerosene or mineral spirits, or something similar - usually just the honing oil sold at the local hardware store.. Don't use motor or other heavyweight oils as it's too thick to carry the swarf away properly, and will clog the stone. The opposite is true for WD-40 or other aerosol born lubricants - they are too lightweight to carry away the swarf effectively and the stone will wear prematurely. That in the end is all the oil is for - if you don't use oil, or use the wrong type, the stone can either wear too quickly and require flattening, or plug up and require cleaning too frequently, or both. If you're in doubt, just get Norton's honing oil - I'm sure it's quality is top notch. Another recommended brand is "Smith Advanced Formula Honing Oil" which could also be available in your local hardware store. If you are going to be using an oil stone for sharpening your knives in the kitchen, make sure it's a food safe oil. Norton's honing oil is food safe - I don't know about the others.
Note - one thing I've noticed is colder weather thickens the oil - so if you are working in a colder shop, you may need to cut the oil with some turpentine or mineral spirits so it isn't too thick. You will be able to tell by the feel and sound of the stone as you work the edge whether or not it is cutting or the edge is simply riding on a film of oil. So perhaps a concoction of one part mineral oil to one part kerosene or mineral spirits will be a good starting point.
Yeah thats what I've mixed up for honing oil. Kerosene with barsol white mineral oil, 50/50.
nope..... i wash the stone with dawn and water when i am done.... then the next honing session i put a few drops of dawn in the water and i have no problem with the water bubbling up.....
the petroleum based oils aren't so easy...
Lots of recipes by the old timers, but some of them that I tried were simply bad advice. Remember one that swore by neatsfoot oil a liquid paraffin. I worked for months to get that crap out of my stones after in solidified into a sticky gummy mess. Worked good at first though. What I use now is simply neatsfoot oil as its readily available and comes in gallon sizes. Lots of other oils work just as well, but they are tens of times more expensive and don't work any better than neatsfoot oil.
Kerosene/oil mix has been a standard for decades, but personally, I hate the smell of kerosene and don't want it in my house. So I use something a little less objectionable. Still, if you have a shop and sharpen most of your tools there, kerosene would just fit right in, and shops always smell like petroleum products anyway.
Kerosene/oil mix has been a standard for decades, but personally, I hate the smell of kerosene and don't want it in my house. So I use something a little less objectionable. Still, if you have a shop and sharpen most of your tools there, kerosene would just fit right in, and shops always smell like petroleum products anyway.
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- #11
I'm still stuck on this topic, 3-1/2 years later. Since then, I've tried kerosene to mineral oil 1:1, which works very well, but is perhaps best consigned to the tool shed. Following a suggestion from Jayber Crow, I've tried lard oil, which has lots of cushion and smell's like homemade pie crust, but it is a bit too viscous for my taste. Vegetable oils I've used have been jojoba oil, apricot kernel oil, and grapeseed oil, with grapeseed oil being the least viscous of these. Think I'll try Gamma's Dexron ATF recommendation and Paco's olive oil recommendation--maybe more refined, rather than extra virgin cold-pressed.
Thus far, the best honing oil solution for me has been kero to mineral oil 1:1, followed by Dan's honing oil. I've tried Smith's and don't like it. It's more of a solvent than an oil from my experience. Glycerine/water blends also don't appeal to me. Water with a couple of drops of dish-washing liquid on a smoothed translucent Arkansas, if one wants to avoid oil, works well too.
Thus far, the best honing oil solution for me has been kero to mineral oil 1:1, followed by Dan's honing oil. I've tried Smith's and don't like it. It's more of a solvent than an oil from my experience. Glycerine/water blends also don't appeal to me. Water with a couple of drops of dish-washing liquid on a smoothed translucent Arkansas, if one wants to avoid oil, works well too.
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Acetone is the missing ingredient for the bore cleaner recipe above. (Ed's Red is how I've heard it referred to)
Kero and mineral oil can be done with baby oil (most are just mineral and scent) and Klean Heat (odorless kero substitute) http://www.lowes.com/pd_335477-78-GKKH99991_0__?productId=3637782
The mix ends up smelling like baby oil.
Kero and mineral oil can be done with baby oil (most are just mineral and scent) and Klean Heat (odorless kero substitute) http://www.lowes.com/pd_335477-78-GKKH99991_0__?productId=3637782
The mix ends up smelling like baby oil.
Jut for the curious people here. Sperm whale oil came from inside the head of the whale. Often after killing the whale, the head was cut off and dragged up on deck of the whaler ship. They then cut a hold in the head pulled out the contents of the head by the bucket load. Often this task was that of the cabin boy since they were small enough to fit through the whole whales head.
It still required processing to be an oil used for industry or lamps.
- Mike
It still required processing to be an oil used for industry or lamps.
- Mike
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- #14
Thanks for chiming in guys.
[A]ephili, I think you referred me to Klean Heat a while back. I went to my hardware store and found an odorless kerosene equivalent. Thing that kept me from trying it was that it just seemed to be kerosene without the odor. All the warnings seemed similar to kerosene, in any case. I've compared baby oil to USP mineral oil and the baby oil seemed less viscous, which is an improvement. Cut with kero or an odorless kerosene, even less so. Older accounts mention cutting olive oil with xylene, which I assume is more noxious than kero. It's worth a shot.
Dan's honing oil has an odor, but one gets used to it. My dream is to find a vegetable oil substitute, but I haven't found it yet. Jojoba oil was advocated as a substitute for "whale oil" (not necessarily sperm oil), but I suppose it is more viscous than sperm oil (which may have been cut with something else as sold). Both are liquid waxes though, if I'm not mistaken.
If using a vegetable oil, what to cut it with?
[A]ephili, I think you referred me to Klean Heat a while back. I went to my hardware store and found an odorless kerosene equivalent. Thing that kept me from trying it was that it just seemed to be kerosene without the odor. All the warnings seemed similar to kerosene, in any case. I've compared baby oil to USP mineral oil and the baby oil seemed less viscous, which is an improvement. Cut with kero or an odorless kerosene, even less so. Older accounts mention cutting olive oil with xylene, which I assume is more noxious than kero. It's worth a shot.
Dan's honing oil has an odor, but one gets used to it. My dream is to find a vegetable oil substitute, but I haven't found it yet. Jojoba oil was advocated as a substitute for "whale oil" (not necessarily sperm oil), but I suppose it is more viscous than sperm oil (which may have been cut with something else as sold). Both are liquid waxes though, if I'm not mistaken.
If using a vegetable oil, what to cut it with?
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"... My dream is to find a vegetable oil substitute..."
Then Neatsfoot oil is right out.
From wikipeadia;
After cattle are slaughtered, the feet and lower leg bones, including the skin but not the hooves are boiled. The oil that is released is skimmed off, filtered and pressed. The first pressing is the highest grade, the second pressing produces a lower grade oil and a solid press cake or stearin product.
Neatsfoot oil of the highest grade is used as a lubricant.[SUP][1][/SUP] It is used in metalworking industries as a cutting fluid for aluminium. For machining, tapping and drilling aluminium, it is superior to kerosene and various water-based cutting fluids. The fat left over from the second pressing process, a solid stearin, is used for making soap.
Then Neatsfoot oil is right out.
From wikipeadia;
After cattle are slaughtered, the feet and lower leg bones, including the skin but not the hooves are boiled. The oil that is released is skimmed off, filtered and pressed. The first pressing is the highest grade, the second pressing produces a lower grade oil and a solid press cake or stearin product.
Neatsfoot oil of the highest grade is used as a lubricant.[SUP][1][/SUP] It is used in metalworking industries as a cutting fluid for aluminium. For machining, tapping and drilling aluminium, it is superior to kerosene and various water-based cutting fluids. The fat left over from the second pressing process, a solid stearin, is used for making soap.
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- #16
Thanks for the quote. I'm curious as to why it refers to aluminum rather than steel. I have some liquid neatsfoot oil for leather and haven't thought to try it for honing. If it's too viscous, the question remains the same, what to cut it with?
Cutting may not be required. That's the deal with neatsfoot oil.
"Fat from warm-blooded animals normally has a high melting point, becoming hard when cool – but neatsfoot oil remains liquid at room temperature. This is because the relatively slender legs and feet of animals such as cattle are adapted to tolerate and maintain much lower temperatures than those of the body core, using countercurrent heat exchange in the legs between warm arterial and cooler venous blood – other body fat would become stiff at these temperatures."
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neatsfoot_oil
I'm not speaking from experience here. I shopped at Lowes yesterday, looked for the elusive substance. My local store doesn't stock the product. So I'm way behind you on this learning curve.
"Fat from warm-blooded animals normally has a high melting point, becoming hard when cool – but neatsfoot oil remains liquid at room temperature. This is because the relatively slender legs and feet of animals such as cattle are adapted to tolerate and maintain much lower temperatures than those of the body core, using countercurrent heat exchange in the legs between warm arterial and cooler venous blood – other body fat would become stiff at these temperatures."
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neatsfoot_oil
I'm not speaking from experience here. I shopped at Lowes yesterday, looked for the elusive substance. My local store doesn't stock the product. So I'm way behind you on this learning curve.
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- #18
I've used it for my strops. Just a drop or two smeared across the palms will do the trick there.
Try a shoe-repair place, but specify that you want straight neat's-foot oil. There are some neat's foot-oil compounds that involve other agents (ironically, perhaps making them less viscous for honing purposes).
I've been using Norton oil lately it doesn't have the odor of Dan's; in fact it has no odor detectable by me. I believe that it's a light mineral oil; lighter than what is available at most drug stores. It's also food grade which would lead me to believe mineral oil.
The lard oil, as Alan mentioned, is slightly more viscous. I've been preferring the feel of the Norton oil better. I just ordered some oil from Natural Whetstones which is supposedly food grade; maybe it's similar to Norton. We'll see.
Trying ATF would be interesting. As Gamma mentioned a while back sperm oil used to be an ingredient in ATF. I read somewhere that the year it was banned there were a lot more AT failures. Might be some nasty stuff in ATF though.
The lard oil, as Alan mentioned, is slightly more viscous. I've been preferring the feel of the Norton oil better. I just ordered some oil from Natural Whetstones which is supposedly food grade; maybe it's similar to Norton. We'll see.
Trying ATF would be interesting. As Gamma mentioned a while back sperm oil used to be an ingredient in ATF. I read somewhere that the year it was banned there were a lot more AT failures. Might be some nasty stuff in ATF though.
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- #20
I read that somewhere too. Must be out there in Wikiland. I've used Norton honing oil with my kitchen knives, as it is "safe for kitchen use" as you mention. Seems to work fine there. On the bottle, it says "highly refined mineral oil" and it's less viscous than the pharmaceutical grade. Maybe it's the ticket.
While not really germane to honing, this compared some oils back in the day: https://books.google.com/books?id=JF8iAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA613&lpg=PA613&dq=sperm+oil+formulas&source=bl&ots=v_SOKpNBi-&sig=ca0f7RuAQ_vBJVOupgvC_b0sgqk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBWoVChMIhfa_tYu-yAIVwzQ-Ch2WHQV_#v=onepage&q=sperm%20oil%20formulas&f=false
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