Oof! That Aridus is nice, but a hunnert eighty bucks!
Home Defense Shotgun Reccomendations
- Thread starter Claudel Xerxes
- Start date
Oof! That Aridus is nice, but a hunnert eighty bucks!
Having been in LEO for 33 years now, I can tell you from experience that I have seen prosecutors strongly try to infer a defendants state of mind based on things like weapons mods and ammo choice. Remember the big "Black Talon" hullaballoo in the 90s? I would rather play it safe, than count on some jury that will most likely contain people that think an AR15 is a weapon of war, and that a 9mm will blow a lung clean out of a body. But as you say, one must feel free to so as one likes.
This is a very good point. Those of us that put red dots and flashlights on our defensive guns (see the photo of my KSG earlier in this thread) can hardly be called "out of the ordinary". The majority of police guns these days have one or both on them. That sounds pretty acceptable to me.
On the reload topic, I find that to be too esoteric to be a concern, even in a civil case.
Thank you for your service.
What state and city are you in? I can see this happening in ‘certain’ jurisdictions where Soros funded DA’s work & thrive. But where I live here in red dirt America, home of ‘praise the Lord and pass the ammo’?
Our DA’s, Judges and down to earth, God fearing, common sense folk who fill up our jury boxes? All they require from us, is to answer one single question. “was it in self defense?”
If it was? Red dots, shell holders and other enhancements will not send an innocent person who was legally defending themselves to prison.
If it wasn’t self defense? Then having a plain stock weapon and ammo with nothing else, isn’t going to keep you OUT of prison if you’re guilty of wrongfully shooting someone and trying to claim self defense.
Anything in between these, is nothing more or less than the personal agendas of certain states DA’s trying to use something, anything, in order to punish its citizens for not letting the bad guy hurt them.
I can see why one would bend the knee to not having extra gizmo’s on self defense weapons in the type of jurisdictions you speak on.
But in order to keep the freedom I enjoy of having gizmo’s on mine in my jurisdiction? It’s imperative I stand my ground and have my red dots and gizmo’s and not give any ground for it to change.
It’s all a slippery slope fo sho.
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Assistant DA's don't get promoted if they lose cases. They get kudos for successful prosecutions. If he or she has certain political beliefs then that he or she is going to try and make any possible defendant of a shooting look as evil as possible. In some states the law is clearly on the side of the victim. However, in some states even the law is no impediment to a clever prosecutor.
Absolutely agree with you as long as certain criteria has been clearly articulated and verified.
I think I have the phrase; ‘some states’ or ‘some jurisdictions’ and even ‘some DA’s’ in my posts as well.
Thanks to all you fine gents I have put an order in for a 590a1.
My reasons:
The model I got has interchangeable choke tubes.
The Mossberg can shoot mini shells possibly reliably with aftermarket help. Mini shells a no-go with Remington. Do I need to shoot mini shells? No idea.
The lack of pinned/soldered parts means I can fix stuff more easily.
Extended mag tubes are easier to install.
Trigger seemed fine enough.
Action was smooth enough.
Never shot it, nor a Remington, so the most important part of the equation is unanswered. But heck I’ll probably never shoot a Remi to compare it to so ignorance is bliss.
In any event thanks again for all the insight.
My reasons:
The model I got has interchangeable choke tubes.
The Mossberg can shoot mini shells possibly reliably with aftermarket help. Mini shells a no-go with Remington. Do I need to shoot mini shells? No idea
.The lack of pinned/soldered parts means I can fix stuff more easily.
Extended mag tubes are easier to install.
Trigger seemed fine enough.
Action was smooth enough.
Never shot it, nor a Remington, so the most important part of the equation is unanswered. But heck I’ll probably never shoot a Remi to compare it to so ignorance is bliss.
In any event thanks again for all the insight.
I told my wife I didn’t splurge on a semi-auto this time, maybe next time I will, and she said , “ who needs more than one shot gun. You are one and done”.
Then I looked at all her shoes and bags…and said “ yes dear”.
She will forget this conversation in a year or two.
Then I looked at all her shoes and bags…and said “ yes dear”.
She will forget this conversation in a year or two.
Amazing how that is. I have four pairs of shoes. My wife? I have no idea. We have a closet for her shoes and a cabinet outside. However, that doesn't equate to a new razor or anything else I may want. There is no understanding the female mind.
To be fair, she doesn't give me too much grief over my hobbies.
Sounds like you made a well thought out decision. I’m sure you will enjoy the Mossberg. I get where you are coming from, because I would own one of each if I could. But your Mrs is making excellent practical sense. If I got an automatic shotgun it would probably be one of the pretty ones with wood stocks for birds or sporting clays. More practical.
You will love the simplicity, reliability and the excellent versatility of your Mossberg pump shotgun. I would absolutely love to have a 3rd gen Beretta 1301 semi automatic combat shotgun. But it isn’t as practical or reliable for home defense scenarios as a pump shotgun is. I’m not saying it’s not reliable or practical; I’m just saying it’s not AS reliable and practical.
In a rock & roll, high speed low drag gunfight? Maybe. But the 590 A1 is MORE than capable of defending the homestead and then some.
If the holes are perfectly fine on yours I might have a change of heart
I finally got it apart Kent. I don’t know if I can tell if the receiver holes have been elongated or not? Maybe a tiny, smidgen? But not excessive for sure. I dunno, you tell me.
Port side
The back larger hole looks a little out of round towards the back? Maybe? I dunno?
Aft side
The smaller front hole looks a bit out of symmetry at the bottom a bit? Maybe? Again, I might just be a bit cockeyed and can’t tell? You tell me, but it’s not excessive?
Not sure exactly how many rounds I have put thru the ole’ girl over the years, but guesstimating? I probably had a thousand rounds of bird, .00 and slug thru it before I started using it in the academy. I was an Academy Instructor for a decade. While each cadet had to throw 750 rounds down range during their firearms block, I probably only put 300 rounds thru mine each Academy in order to demonstrate certain things at certain times to and for cadets.
So doing the math, 300x10 years is 3,000 rounds plus the 1,000 before the academy and probably another I’d say, another 2,500 to 3,000 rounds doing tactical shotgun classes for my own personal training. I spent a week at Gunsite a couple of times over the years and a week at Thunder Ranch back in the day, but those weeks incorporated shotgun, rifle and handgun. And then either local LE classes or other events. So maybe 8K or somewhere around there?
Saying this, my Remington Police has a steel receiver and your Mossberg 590 will have a steel receiver. I would think the steel receiver bolts would be harder on an Mossberg 500 with an aluminum receiver?
I finally got it apart Kent. I don’t know if I can tell if the receiver holes have been elongated or not? Maybe a tiny, smidgen? But not excessive for sure. I dunno, you tell me.
Port side
View attachment 1689342
The back larger hole looks a little out of round towards the back? Maybe? I dunno?
Aft side
View attachment 1689343
The smaller front hole looks a bit out of symmetry at the bottom a bit? Maybe? Again, I might just be a bit cockeyed and can’t tell? You tell me, but it’s not excessive?
Not sure exactly how many rounds I have put thru the ole’ girl over the years, but guesstimating? I probably had a thousand rounds of bird, .00 and slug thru it before I started using it in the academy. I was an Academy Instructor for a decade. While each cadet had to throw 750 rounds down range during their firearms block, I probably only put 300 rounds thru mine each Academy in order to demonstrate certain things at certain times to and for cadets.
So doing the math, 300x10 years is 3,000 rounds plus the 1,000 before the academy and probably another I’d say, another 2,500 to 3,000 rounds doing tactical shotgun classes for my own personal training. I spent a week at Gunsite a couple of times over the years and a week at Thunder Ranch back in the day, but those weeks incorporated shotgun, rifle and handgun. And then either local LE classes or other events. So maybe 8K or somewhere around there?
Saying this, my Remington Police has a steel receiver and your Mossberg 590 will have a steel receiver. I would think the steel receiver bolts would be harder on an Mossberg 500 with an aluminum receiver?
Looked a little oblong, maybe? I can’t really tell either, but not enough to really matter if at all. If you need micrometers to tell it means it’s a non issue I think.
You are right about the aluminum receiver tho, that might be affected a little more.
In any event thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at receiver mounted carriers and not discount them wholesale anymore.
I really like the idea of Velcro shot shell cards. I can see where they would be handy in a fast paced training environment or combat environment. But those kinds of positives might not translate to them making sense in a home defense environment?
The reason I say this, is because the Velcro cards do have their cons also? For instance, while you can tear an empty card off and just simply stick another card on?
When I jump up in the middle of the night and grab my shotgun, I’m probably not going to grab extra cards?
If I grab extra ammo? It most likely would be some loose shells in my Sponge Bob pajama pockets?
The guys I see reloading with cards are doing it from a chest rig that has Velcro and they rip the cards from their chest and attach it to their shotguns
Plus add in the fact, those thin elastic cloth shell holders:
1. Will collapse when a shell is not in them and will be very hard to fill again while the shotgun is in actual use.
2. Those elastic shell holders will eventually stretch out and wear out.
I have had the same plastic nylon holder on mine since 99’ or 00’ and it’s held up pretty well. I have emptied that shell holder quite screw times when training or shooting at the range. When it runs empty and I need more rounds in the tube, I have found it’s just as easy and efficient to reload from a front pant’s pocket or cargo leg pocket full of shells.
In fact, when cadets or veteran officers are running around and getting training T the range, we always suggested to them, to fill up their pockets with shells before entering the concrete fish bowl.
Main purpose of on-receiver cards- immediate reload on the platform. Need met, check. The ability to carry extra cards, 2/.223 mag pouch is a bonus.I really like the idea of Velcro shot shell cards. I can see where they would be handy in a fast paced training environment or combat environment. But those kinds of positives might not translate to them making sense in a home defense environment?
The reason I say this, is because the Velcro cards do have their cons also? For instance, while you can tear an empty card off and just simply stick another card on?
When I jump up in the middle of the night and grab my shotgun, I’m probably not going to grab extra cards?
If I grab extra ammo? It most likely would be some loose shells in my Sponge Bob pajama pockets?
The guys I see reloading with cards are doing it from a chest rig that has Velcro and they rip the cards from their chest and attach it to their shotguns
Plus add in the fact, those thin elastic cloth shell holders:
1. Will collapse when a shell is not in them and will be very hard to fill again while the shotgun is in actual use.
2. Those elastic shell holders will eventually stretch out and wear out.
I have had the same plastic nylon holder on mine since 99’ or 00’ and it’s held up pretty well. I have emptied that shell holder quite screw times when training or shooting at the range. When it runs empty and I need more rounds in the tube, I have found it’s just as easy and efficient to reload from a front pant’s pocket or cargo leg pocket full of shells.
In fact, when cadets or veteran officers are running around and getting training T the range, we always suggested to them, to fill up their pockets with shells before entering the concrete fish bowl.
Following the above- if you are trying to reload them in extremis, then you are back at the first position of: why did I not grab my extra cards? Would you really be shucking shells into the sidesaddle from the box? Answering the question, would you really grab extra cards? An el-cheapo 3 AR mag bag lets you carry 6 extra cards, with 36-48 extra rounds.
I'm not refilling in-use, I'm swapping cards & refilling cards in down time, which in the HD context should be forthcoming in short order, unless I'm living in South America in a compound.
Cards will stretch out, eventually. ~$12 replacement, or $72/6 cards every 3-4 years (or longer) depending on environmental exposure, use, etc., equivalent to ~2-3 cases of light practice loads.
No refitting of the receiver (e.g., you are probably ok for awhile yet, but your receiver would benefit from a drill & bushing placement. A few more thousand rounds, and it will begin to bind up, or not hit the firing pin consistently. The average user is never likely to get there, but some will & the effect is exaggerated on AL receivers).
Can you get 48 rounds of 00 in your pockets?
If you expect a North Hollywood scenario, and all you pack is a shotty, you could go full-on War Pig, and load up a vest with 6 pouches for 3 30 round .30 cal mags with 192 12g rounds on 8-shell cards. Might stagger around a bit, as that is 12 pounds of 12g, but at least you're ready to play.
Main purpose of on-receiver cards- immediate reload on the platform. Need met, check. The ability to carry extra cards, 2/.223 mag pouch is a bonus.
Following the above- if you are trying to reload them in extremis, then you are back at the first position of: why did I not grab my extra cards? Would you really be shucking shells into the sidesaddle from the box? Answering the question, would you really grab extra cards? An el-cheapo 3 AR mag bag lets you carry 6 extra cards, with 36-48 extra rounds.
I'm not refilling in-use, I'm swapping cards & refilling cards in down time, which in the HD context should be forthcoming in short order, unless I'm living in South America in a compound.
Cards will stretch out, eventually. ~$12 replacement, or $72/6 cards every 3-4 years (or longer) depending on environmental exposure, use, etc., equivalent to ~2-3 cases of light practice loads.
No refitting of the receiver (e.g., you are probably ok for awhile yet, but your receiver would benefit from a drill & bushing placement. A few more thousand rounds, and it will begin to bind up, or not hit the firing pin consistently. The average user is never likely to get there, but some will & the effect is exaggerated on AL receivers).
Can you get 48 rounds of 00 in your pockets?
Sounds pretty extreme for investigating that bump in the night while wearing only my sponge Bob square pants pajama bottoms and a surprised look on my face.
90% of the tactical guru’s who even own the type of kit you speak of and actually practice with it on an active range?
Probably won’t gear up first with said kit for home defense. However, if you and I were on an active range playing with our shotguns and running timed drills.
You might just be a bit faster then me with your tactical bag full of shot shell cards. But don’t be surprised to see me coming right in behind you in those timed speeds, just by loading buckshot from my right leg cargo pocket and slugs from my right front pocket. Just sayin. I have always been a ‘come as you are’ kinda guy, cuz when stuff happens it’s usually a ‘right then, right now’ kinda moment, which dictates for you to, ‘come as you are.’
Nothing wrong with having and depending on useful kit. And if one trains to be effective with that kit, they need to make sure that kit is always around and always available to be there for them when that balloon goes up.
I’m the kinda guy that might not always have kit on me or near me, but there is a 95% chance I will always have pockets on the pants I’m wearing. Even on my pajama pants. That’s just me. Your miles may vary.
Probably won’t gear up first with said kit for home defense. However, if you and I were on an active range playing with our shotguns and running timed drills.
You might just be a bit faster then me with your tactical bag full of shot shell cards. But don’t be surprised to see me coming right in behind you in those timed speeds, just by loading buckshot from my right leg cargo pocket and slugs from my right front pocket. Just sayin. I have always been a ‘come as you are’ kinda guy, cuz when stuff happens it’s usually a ‘right then, right now’ kinda moment, which dictates for you to, ‘come as you are.’
Nothing wrong with having and depending on useful kit. And if one trains to be effective with that kit, they need to make sure that kit is always around and always available to be there for them when that balloon goes up.
I’m the kinda guy that might not always have kit on me or near me, but there is a 95% chance I will always have pockets on the pants I’m wearing. Even on my pajama pants. That’s just me. Your miles may vary.
Shot shell bandolier type belt works better than nuthin. Fast to grab and don.
I’m just glad I don’t sleep in the buff? I’d be standing there with just a shotgun and a smile on my face with know way to reload?
I guess I could spit the rose out I’m holding between my teeth and put a couple of shells in there instead?
Bandolier works in the buff....
If I can’t take care of a threat with 7 rounds out a shotgun I’m in deep Kim Chee. Might have to run and get the Ar.
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