You get the same reaction letting the bolt slam forward on a 12ga semi-auto. Don't ask me how I know.
Home Defense Shotgun Reccomendations
- Thread starter Claudel Xerxes
- Start date
"The sound of someone racking a 12 GAUGE in Dark is attention getter, or putting on in your face."
I see this trope trotted out ALL the time.
We do not typically train to rack the slide of a pistol immediately prior to engaging within the home. Why are we doing do with a shotgun?
For the home, why would I give up a possible tactical edge by making a whole bunch of noise racking the slide and for purposes of this discussion, potentially "short stroking" it at the moment of truth.
How about just snicking off the safety and keeping the finger high "in register" well outside of the trigger guard, until my sights are on the target, I am sure of my backstop and I have made the conscious decision to shoot in defense of myself and others?
I fully acknowledge the widespread practice of a chamber empty cruiser ready scenario in LEO vehicles.
Re auto v pump- OS dropped some tactical platinum.
Training is everything in the entire firearms realm. I would also note that one could buy, a pump shotgun, new or used, some bird/buckshot, some dummy rounds, take a class, pattern it for buckshot (easy button is federal flite control buck, though anybody's buck may be good enough in the confines of your home if the range is sub 7-10 yrds) and be out less money that buying a 1301 for sure and maybe even the more budget version.
I would humbly posit that the shooter who went the pump route I advocated would be a far safer and more capable defender if they applied what they learned in class on a regular dry fire basis with even quarterly dry fire.
I see this trope trotted out ALL the time.
We do not typically train to rack the slide of a pistol immediately prior to engaging within the home. Why are we doing do with a shotgun?
For the home, why would I give up a possible tactical edge by making a whole bunch of noise racking the slide and for purposes of this discussion, potentially "short stroking" it at the moment of truth.
How about just snicking off the safety and keeping the finger high "in register" well outside of the trigger guard, until my sights are on the target, I am sure of my backstop and I have made the conscious decision to shoot in defense of myself and others?
I fully acknowledge the widespread practice of a chamber empty cruiser ready scenario in LEO vehicles.
Re auto v pump- OS dropped some tactical platinum.
Training is everything in the entire firearms realm. I would also note that one could buy, a pump shotgun, new or used, some bird/buckshot, some dummy rounds, take a class, pattern it for buckshot (easy button is federal flite control buck, though anybody's buck may be good enough in the confines of your home if the range is sub 7-10 yrds) and be out less money that buying a 1301 for sure and maybe even the more budget version.
I would humbly posit that the shooter who went the pump route I advocated would be a far safer and more capable defender if they applied what they learned in class on a regular dry fire basis with even quarterly dry fire.
The thought of that is putting a huge stupid grin on my face right this minute! I allllwaaays wanted a Remington Road Blocker 10 gauge. Alas, now that I could afford the excess, I suspect that launching 4 10gauge slugs in rapid succession would leave me permanently unable to zip my fly.
LMAO!
So what kind of a chance am I taking buying a modern 870?
There is a used 870 express Tactical at the local GS with Magpul furniture, ghost ring sights on pic rail, receiver mounted shell holder(not a fan and need to see if they have the OEM pins), rem choke/brake, strap and soft case for 5 hundo. I can make an offer to go lower, but I hate to be “that guy”. It’s on consignment and the seller will lose 20% off the top. Buds has one with Rem synth stocks for 590.00. Shipping/tax/FFL will add on about 75.00.
I’m thinking it’s a pretty decent deal for Hawaii, assuming it functions properly. Slide action is nice and smooth and cosmetically is very nice. I’m tempted.
There is a used 870 express Tactical at the local GS with Magpul furniture, ghost ring sights on pic rail, receiver mounted shell holder(not a fan and need to see if they have the OEM pins), rem choke/brake, strap and soft case for 5 hundo. I can make an offer to go lower, but I hate to be “that guy”. It’s on consignment and the seller will lose 20% off the top. Buds has one with Rem synth stocks for 590.00. Shipping/tax/FFL will add on about 75.00.
I’m thinking it’s a pretty decent deal for Hawaii, assuming it functions properly. Slide action is nice and smooth and cosmetically is very nice. I’m tempted.
My curiosity peaks, why not a fan of a receiver mounted shell holder?
Internet experts claim the holes in the receiver might elongate over time from the recoil enertia, but that might be more for the aluminum Mossbergs. I also like the idea of the Velcro shell card. Won’t know for sure until I get it and shoot it though. But in a seriousness I’m not raiding a terrorist hide out so the ability to rip off an empty card and stick on a full one will never happen lol.
Now I'm going to have to take my shell holder off and look to see if the holes are elongated.
I can't remember the last time I had it off, but it's definitely been a while. Hope there isn't any rust hiding under it.After a decade of using it in the academy and showing off for cadets, I would think if anyone's receiver holes are elongated it would be mine? I'll post up a pic of the receiver when I do it.
I think the velcro shell cards are kinda nice. They seem like the elastic holders would hold better then the rigid, plastic nylon one I have had on now for the last 20 years.
Now I'm going to have to take my shell holder off and look to see if the holes are elongated.
After a decade of using it in the academy and showing off for cadets, I would think if anyone's receiver holes are elongated it would be mine? I'll post up a pic of the receiver when I do it.
I think the velcro shell cards are kinda nice. They seem like the elastic holders would hold better then the rigid, plastic nylon one I have had on now for the last 20 years.
If the holes are perfectly fine on yours I might have a change of heart
.You can find an internet "expert" for every wild imaginary thing possible. I can see it happening from the carrier being loose and being constantly banged and grabbed by the hand, but not from shooting. I could be wrong, but I've never seen it.
No doubt. It seemed reasonable at the time so I took that info at face value.
Just my 2 cents; God forbid you ever have to use your HD shotgun for that purpose. But if you do, the more tacti-cool it is, the easier it will be for some bleeding heart DA to haul you into court and try to make you look like you were just itching to shoot someone. I prefer to stay with a traditional wood stock shotgun, albeit with an 18" barrel. Also, avoid weird exotic loads OR hand loads for the same reason. Good old #4 or #6 buckshot is fine at home defense ranges. Plus its easy to explain that it is very common and was just what that had at the local big box store on sale.
It’s kinda sad that the type of cosmetic enhancements on a rifle to shoot a intruder in your home matters at all.
Perhaps sad but it's reality.
You would have to shoot an awful lot of rounds for a side saddle carrier to have any effect on the receiver holes. I personally would rather risk hole elongation than give up the tactical advantage of being able to reload from the side saddle. I have them on both Remington and Mossberg guns with moderately high round counts, no problemo. So what if there is slight hole elongation? Prolly wouldn't cause any mechanical problems. Any gun used enough can wear out, but I think it would take more shooting than the average gun owner would subject a firearm to in a normal lifetime of shooting. Besides, if you were to shoot a gun professionally and generate abnormally high round counts, you'd expect things to wear out and consider the gun as a consumable tool to be replaced/ rebuilt as needed.
I also like those shell carriers that slip onto the butt stock. They are not quite as handy as those on the receiver, but they are pretty close and they don't look tactical.
Brown Coat Tactical makes a really nice carrier that I've used on all my shotty's. I shifted away from the hard mounts quite a few years back, as the adhesive/velcro style are reasonably priced, work as well as most of the bolt on/plastic models. The most "durable" step up is the Aridus at 10x the price.
Advantages of velcro:
No receiver binding
Won't drop shells in the heat
Easily replaced
Cons:
Can be cut/torn
Could (conceivably) be torn off in use-HD use is not field operations, so not much of a concern.
Advantages of velcro:
No receiver binding
Won't drop shells in the heat
Easily replaced
Cons:
Can be cut/torn
Could (conceivably) be torn off in use-HD use is not field operations, so not much of a concern.
They've been talking about this opinion for decades and it's never been proven to be true. It dates back to Massad Ayoob's book in the 1980s. However, there are no court cases where some rogue DA has tried to use it. However, feel free to do what you like.
There are actually at least 3 cases that Ayoob has referenced, but 2 of them deal with a LEO that was carrying reloads and the third was a guy that may, or may not, have murdered his wife using a reload. He was eventually convicted, after 3 hung jury trials, of something like reckless endangerment and was sentenced to 8yrs based almost entirely on powder residue.
I think the general consensus in the the reload vs non-reload issues has shifted to it will probably have no bearing in a criminal trial but may cost you a lot of money at the civil trial if you get sued by family of the person you stopped.
I carry reloads in a few of my firearms because it’s been impossible to find certain calibers until recently. I don’t load them to +P+ and keep records of what they’re loaded with and chronographed speeds so that I could argue that my reloads are no different than what you can buy off the shelf. I hope I never have to test the argument out.
I think most states Jury pools will be instructed to focus on the main elements of the case.
Was there actions from the suspect for the victim to be in fear of to justify the use of self defense?
However, a knowledgeable self defense person, shouldn’t want or desire to intentionally cloud or confuse the jury pool’s perceptions with out of the ordinary gizmo’s on their self defense weapons.
I just don’t see things like side saddles, tritium sights, etc, etc, as out of the ordinary? Enhancement features can be argued and will be understood by a common sense jury pool.
While some people vote their politics, that jury will be pooled from the same voting jurisdictions you hail from.
They also own self defense weapons, probably with the same enhancement gizmo’s as you do? Also, if 11 of them happen to not? You only need 1 of the 12 to be sympathetic.
I do understand these odds are better in fly over country than in certain east/west coast destinations.
Was there actions from the suspect for the victim to be in fear of to justify the use of self defense?
However, a knowledgeable self defense person, shouldn’t want or desire to intentionally cloud or confuse the jury pool’s perceptions with out of the ordinary gizmo’s on their self defense weapons.
I just don’t see things like side saddles, tritium sights, etc, etc, as out of the ordinary? Enhancement features can be argued and will be understood by a common sense jury pool.
While some people vote their politics, that jury will be pooled from the same voting jurisdictions you hail from.
They also own self defense weapons, probably with the same enhancement gizmo’s as you do? Also, if 11 of them happen to not? You only need 1 of the 12 to be sympathetic.
I do understand these odds are better in fly over country than in certain east/west coast destinations.
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