First Coticule

[psfred]

Won my first usable coticule on the auction site today, 7x2" with the coticule separated from the slate, may or may not have been glued when new.

I have a small slurry stone I've played with, but at 1.25x1.25" I can't really use it for anything.

I'll clean it up and glue it back together (epoxy I think) and see what it does for edged tools and razors.

Should be fun to play with, looks pretty flat.

 

[Empire straights]

Won my first usable coticule on the auction site today, 7x2" with the coticule separated from the slate, may or may not have been glued when new.

I have a small slurry stone I've played with, but at 1.25x1.25" I can't really use it for anything.

I'll clean it up and glue it back together (epoxy I think) and see what it does for edged tools and razors.

Should be fun to play with, looks pretty flat.

View attachment 1748639

Won my first usable coticule on the auction site today, 7x2" with the coticule separated from the slate, may or may not have been glued when new.

I have a small slurry stone I've played with, but at 1.25x1.25" I can't really use it for anything.

I'll clean it up and glue it back together (epoxy I think) and see what it does for edged tools and razors.

Should be fun to play with, looks pretty flat.

View attachment 1748639

Is the dark side slate or is it a really dark(or reddish) Belgian blue?

 

[Empire straights]

Didn't mean to quote you twice, my phone is being weird.

 

[psfred]

Looks more like slate, my BBW is more purple, but it's hard to tell from eBay pics. I think glued stones were not unknown back in the day, if the blue side was bad or very thin the coticule side was glued onto a piece of ordinary slate.

I will find out more on Sat when it arrives. Might have been a complete natural stone that split, that seems to happen too as it appears that some yellow layer is still stuck in a few spots to the blue side.

 

[Legion]

Looks more like slate, my BBW is more purple, but it's hard to tell from eBay pics. I think glued stones were not unknown back in the day, if the blue side was bad or very thin the coticule side was glued onto a piece of ordinary slate.

I will find out more on Sat when it arrives. Might have been a complete natural stone that split, that seems to happen too as it appears that some yellow layer is still stuck in a few spots to the blue side.

In the old days they glued the yellow to a bit of blue stone from the quarry. It was only intended to be a backing, so it may or may not be any good for honing on.

Glueing to slate is a more modern thing, and it was just started because it is quicker and cheaper for the manufacturer to just buy the slate in big panels that are already the correct thickness.

 

[Eshebert]

Pretty sure that’s BBW, the slate backing is usually much thinner. Most hones that old I have seen are blue backed. It just needs to be cleaned up. If it were me, I would probably lap the seam flat and glue with supper glue and roll with it. It’s going to make you a nice hone.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

In the old days they glued the yellow to a bit of blue stone from the quarry. It was only intended to be a backing, so it may or may not be any good for honing on.

Glueing to slate is a more modern thing, and it was just started because it is quicker and cheaper for the manufacturer to just buy the slate in big panels that are already the correct thickness.

Pretty sure that’s BBW, the slate backing is usually much thinner. Most hones that old I have seen are blue backed. It just needs to be cleaned up. If it were me, I would probably lap the seam flat and glue with supper glue and roll with it. It’s going to make you a nice hone.

I concur with the above comments, slate is a recent thing, more than likely BBW.
A lot of my vintage glued ones had very fine BBW pieces glued to the Coticule part, btdubs
In most cases BBWs mostly always make a good pre-finisher with a very high keenness limit before going to the Coticule, also generally a bit harder than their Yellow counterpart. Good, useful stones. Looks like a very nice clean looking Coticule part you got there though.

 

[Eshebert]

@ArtVandelay123

I am glad to see I am not alone. BBW gets dismissed here, not many people have good things to say about it, it’s like that ugly girlfriend. I love the blue side for my knives. I like it as a bevel setter. I just like the feel of honing on it. I will buy myself a large Blue bench stone, if for no other reason for my knife making hobby. I will apply some serious pressure on my knives, that can get western with my small stones.

 

[ArtVandelay123]

@ArtVandelay123

I am glad to see I am not alone. BBW gets dismissed here, not many people have good things to say about it, it’s like that ugly girlfriend. I love the blue side for my knives. I like it as a bevel setter. I just like the feel of honing on it. I will buy myself a large Blue bench stone, if for no other reason for my knife making hobby. I will apply some serious pressure on my knives, that can get western with my small stones.

I'm not sure why they get dismissed that much, Coticule.be forum had to do a full study about it to prove how good they really are.
Someone working at Ardennes once told me, the difference between the yellow and blue isn't that big in all honesty.

But just like you, I also love the honing feel and feedback of the BBW.
It's slower on slurry than the Coti and also slower on water than the Coti. It does so many things well. The Coticule seem just to add a tad of extra smoothness.
Contrary to the Coticule, too thick of slurry on the BBW doesn't take back the keenness considerably. Au contraire, never had any negative effects of thick slurry on the BBW.
The keenness off of the BBW is amazing, imho, do a BBW-dilucot and the edges get wicked sharp.

All my woodworking tools get finished on a BBW, edges are less fragile than with high grit synthetics and they're super sharp, paring end-grain white oak without an issue, etc. and they stay sharp for long.

I have a big stash of BBWs for most my hand tools, you're absolutely spot on about using them for knives or other tools.

I inherited a lot of old stones (I'm from Belgium) and I can assure the BBW has been used extensively and for a LONG period as a functional honing stone. Folks seem to disregard the BBW being used for razor honing in the past, possibly very true; but for other tools, they most definitely has been used for a long time over here.
There's an abundance of that rock, so houses and even roads were paved with them, a lot of houses use some sort of Belgian Blue, which is not the same type as those bonded to razor hones, naturally or glued, ime.
Some of the good stones could've been used for architectural purposes, not denying that, but it's mostly a different kind of Belgian Blue they used, more grey-ish blue instead or purple-ish blue. Different composition too.
But the ones sold by Ardennes coming from the same razor quality veins the cotis come and the natural combos, are all good BBWs for honing tools or even razors.

 

[Eshebert]

I, like you found by experimenting that to maximize the Blue side, use a really thick slurry. I can cut a razor bevel in a manageable timeframe with that method. I’m not claiming synthetic fast, but fast enough not to be too painful. The trade off is the enjoyable the honing feedback, it’s zen like relaxing. I repaired a chip and set bevel in about 10 min a few days ago. I have never finished on it, but now you gave me a challenge to give it a go.

 

[Empire straights]

I'm not sure why they get dismissed that much, Coticule.be forum had to do a full study about it to prove how good they really are.
Someone working at Ardennes once told me, the difference between the yellow and blue isn't that big in all honesty.

But just like you, I also love the honing feel and feedback of the BBW.
It's slower on slurry than the Coti and also slower on water than the Coti. It does so many things well. The Coticule seem just to add a tad of extra smoothness.
Contrary to the Coticule, too thick of slurry on the BBW doesn't take back the keenness considerably. Au contraire, never had any negative effects of thick slurry on the BBW.
The keenness off of the BBW is amazing, imho, do a BBW-dilucot and the edges get wicked sharp.

All my woodworking tools get finished on a BBW, edges are less fragile than with high grit synthetics and they're super sharp, paring end-grain white oak without an issue, etc. and they stay sharp for long.

I have a big stash of BBWs for most my hand tools, you're absolutely spot on about using them for knives or other tools.

I inherited a lot of old stones (I'm from Belgium) and I can assure the BBW has been used extensively and for a LONG period as a functional honing stone. Folks seem to disregard the BBW being used for razor honing in the past, possibly very true; but for other tools, they most definitely has been used for a long time over here.
There's an abundance of that rock, so houses and even roads were paved with them, a lot of houses use some sort of Belgian Blue, which is not the same type as those bonded to razor hones, naturally or glued, ime.
Some of the good stones could've been used for architectural purposes, not denying that, but it's mostly a different kind of Belgian Blue they used, more grey-ish blue instead or purple-ish blue. Different composition too.
But the ones sold by Ardennes coming from the same razor quality veins the cotis come and the natural combos, are all good BBWs for honing tools or even razors.

Yep, Belgian blue whetstones are awesome when you have a good sample. The ones with the giant manganese spots that have an almost blue mother of pearl look too then are usually fantastic for finishing razors. I've got a couple that are fine than most of my yellow coticules. I have some older, hard ones that are coarser to got mid range work. I finish lots of tools and almost all my kitchen knives on them. I tune up my barbers scissors on them too. They don't get any love though for some reason. There's like a handful of guys that get enthusiastic about them but that's it.

 

[psfred]

I love this group, I learn something every time I log in I think!

It's going to be fun to try this stone out when I get it, hopefully this weekend since I'll be out of town next week.

 

[Legion]

Yep, Belgian blue whetstones are awesome when you have a good sample. The ones with the giant manganese spots that have an almost blue mother of pearl look too then are usually fantastic for finishing razors. I've got a couple that are fine than most of my yellow coticules. I have some older, hard ones that are coarser to got mid range work. I finish lots of tools and almost all my kitchen knives on them. I tune up my barbers scissors on them too. They don't get any love though for some reason. There's like a handful of guys that get enthusiastic about them but that's it.

They are popular over on the kitchen knife forums, probably more than coticules.

I remember watching a video of some little old master knife/sword polisher in Japan, and even though he had a bunch of Jnats on his bench, on the video he was polishing on a BBW.

 

[David]

BBW will definitely make a good contrast on clad steels, I’ll give it that

 

[ArtVandelay123]

I remember watching a video of some little old master knife/sword polisher in Japan, and even though he had a bunch of Jnats on his bench, on the video he was polishing on a BBW.

That's a pretty awesome anecdote!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

A few years back was watching one of those fishing shows, where some old guy and crew were fishing for tuna (not the new drama shows) old school, real fishing. He whipped out a knife to gut a fish and a massive 12 inch coticule. Slapped the yellow side on the hatch and sharpened the knife on the dark purple/ BBW, then tossed the stone into a wooden box like it was a rusty old hammer, never even looked at the yellow “backer”.

 

[David]

A few years back was watching one of those fishing shows, where some old guy and crew were fishing for tuna (not the new drama shows) old school, real fishing. He whipped out a knife to gut a fish and a massive 12 inch coticule. Slapped the yellow side on the hatch and sharpened the knife on the dark purple/ BBW, then tossed the stone into a wooden box like it was a rusty old hammer, never even looked at the yellow “backer”.

Poor guy. He must have been raised without a father.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Maybe it was one of those odd large ones with the beveler level coarseness coticule on it?

 

[David]

Maybe it was one of those odd large ones with the beveler level coarseness coticule on it?

Good point. Remember that big one that I sold you years ago? That thing was like a 220 grit Shapton

 

[SliceOfLife]

Probably?

I remember owning two that were 9x2 or 10x2... First was definitely an eBay "Score" from awhile back that I resold in BST for a loss describing its behavior and a few members here played around with (one guy eventually got it to finish with oil I think)... the other was probably the one you're thinking of. No Joke; they could both bevel without slurry; or darn close. 25 micron+ garnets.