Those with a coarse beard need to learn how to hone their own razors. That is the only way to produce edges that are optimized for your beard. Even that can be hit or miss. I have produced edges that seemed to be "shave ready" based on the usual predictive tests, but yet they failed the all-important shave test. In that case, they go back to the stones or the pasted strops based on what the edge seems to need. Because razors vary is type of steel, tempering process, and grind, not every razor responds the same way on the hones and strops. That is why I have a collection of stones and strops.
Exceedingly discouraged
- Thread starter Dzaw
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Yes, get the tools to produce your own shave ready.
- Thread starter
- #43
Thank you, thank you, and thank you!!!
knowing this could just be normal, and doesn’t necessarily mean I’m doing something wrong is incredibly helpful. A huge part of my frustration and discouragement was in just not being accustomed to feeling dumb, but not even knowing what I am doing wrong. To have the answer be “actually, you might not be” is quite encouraging!
Hopefully this weekend I am going to hone both of these razors from scratch. I want to go all the way back to 1k and burr for no other reason than my own OCD in running what feels like an experiment - I should try to eliminate what variables I can. I understand that in use, such a thorough re honing is a waste of time and steel, but it isn’t a geeky large waste of either, and it will help my peace of mind.
Then I want to start on Monday, and shave with one, either daily, or every other day, except when I strop, I will strop both. I am going to incorporate the safety razor knock down pass before employing the straight as well.
This way, if the nock down pass extends the life of the straight’s edge, I should be able to tell. If the edge goes south, and the other razor shaves very well, then stropping isn’t the problem...
I usually get several good shaves from a DE blade - definitely more than a straight, but by the time I am hitting 5-6 I can really tell the difference. I can still make a safety razor shave me adequately well at 6, but I have to work for it.
Since you shave with a DE as well as a straight, let me ask you what DE razor you use and which blades are your favorites in that razor. That will tell me a lot about the toughness of your beard. If you like very sharp blades in fairly aggressive razors, you probably have a tough beard. I use mid-sharp blades in a Muchle R41 because I have tender skin as well as a tough beard, but I like using the sharpest blades (Feather, BIC Crorme Platinum, and Nacets in most everything else. I can usually get 3-4 shaves on a blade, but that is about it.
- Thread starter
- #45
For razors, I have only used a Van Der Hagen TTO, which I didn’t like very much, and my EJ DE89, which I prefer to the VDH.
As blades go, I’ve tried several, with the Bic chrome platinum being by far and away my favorites. They don’t last as long as some others, but while fresh they are so smooth and make for a great clean shave. Astra and Feather are tied at a fairly close second, lasting a little longer but needing additional passes to make for as clean a shave. Voskhod and Polsilver super iridium are solid performance blades for me, not great but certainly serviceable. Derby, Treet, Van der Hagen, and Dorco were all some degree of “meh” to “nope”.
As blades go, I’ve tried several, with the Bic chrome platinum being by far and away my favorites. They don’t last as long as some others, but while fresh they are so smooth and make for a great clean shave. Astra and Feather are tied at a fairly close second, lasting a little longer but needing additional passes to make for as clean a shave. Voskhod and Polsilver super iridium are solid performance blades for me, not great but certainly serviceable. Derby, Treet, Van der Hagen, and Dorco were all some degree of “meh” to “nope”.
It sounds like you preferences are similar to mine. I have a variety of DE razors ranging from the VDH TTO which is quite mild up to a rather aggressive Muhle R41. In the VDH, I like Feathers, BIC chrome platinums. In a DE89/R89 I like blades like Voskhod, Polsilver, Nacets, Personna Reds, Crystals, 7 O'Clock Greens, German Wilkinson Swords. I like Astra Superior Stainless, but Astra Superior Platinum blades are not quite sharp enough in anything other than aggressive razors. Derby Extra, Treet, VDH and Merkur blades just do not cut it for me, so it sounds like our beards are similar. I have not tried Dorco but suspect the older blades would not be sharp enough. However, I do plan to try their new Prime Platinum blades as I have heard they are sharper.
@Dzaw have you confirmed that your strop is not cupped? A nice honed edge that degrades with a couple of shaves sounds to me like it may not be getting stropped effectively. A lot of times, this is because the strop has cupped slightly.
Other than that, if you truly have a tough beard, doing your maximum to soften it should be a priority. PREP!
Other than that, if you truly have a tough beard, doing your maximum to soften it should be a priority. PREP!
- Thread starter
- #49
Yes, the strop pulls nice and flat.
Insofar as prep is concerned - I have a pretty elaborate prep routine that goes as follows:
I start with a hot shower. The first thing I do in the shower is soak my face with hot water and massage it all pretty well. Once thoroughly soaked and heated up, I use the bath soap (Yardley of London soaps are tallow based, but contain plenty of glycerine to help hold water next to the whisker. They are also among the more alkaline available bath soaps). And lather the whole area thick with the bath soap, massaging it all into the beard. Then I rinse the soap out to strip the excess sebum from the hair. I re-lather my whole beard with the bath soap again, and then proceed through the rest of cleaning my body while that lather soaks into the beard. Once I am done showering otherwise, back into the hot water goes the beard/ face where I just soak up the heat with hot water running over my face for a minute or so. Done showering, I dry off my body, but leave the warm wet face dripping, and move to the mirror, where I lather up for a shave. I face lather, to be sure the lubrication works all the way down to the skin and all up against the hair R it’s root.
That routine should be quite sufficient to soften the cuticle, spread it’s scales, and get plenty of hot water into the softer core of the hair. It should go a long way to heating and softening the keratin of the cuticle itself too.
Is there more I should be doing for prep?
In the meantime, I think I managed to carve out enough time on the morrow to hone my razors up so I can begin the experiment. I wanted to do it today, but SWMBO wanted a smoked turkey for dinner, and I have two pork butts in the smoker for tomorrow night. Prepping and juggling the turkey, pork, and fixings for a turkey dinner ate pretty much all of today’s free time.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
That is quite the prep, but not excessive of course.
You could try a hot towel over your first lather, and then another rinse, followed by more lather, but I doubt it would add anything substantial.
I have been very unimpressed with most preshaves I've tried including shave oils even the shave oils I've made myself (not that I don't like them, but do they improve the shave?).
Grooming Dept Preshaves seem to actually improve my shaves. I doubt a preshave product would solve your problem but every little bit contributes.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #51
So I just finished honing up these razors. Since I almost never shave with them honed but not stropped, I gave them 30 laps on the leather when I finished with the balsa. They both have 0.1 micron in diamond edges, and both easily treetop armhair at a quarter inch plus. A few of those are audible, but some just sever silently, so all in all, pretty sharp edges.
I am going to shave with the Shell razor, because I keep getting the feeling that between the two that one seems to shave well for a little longer than the J&R Dodge. I am going to strop them both between each shave though.
I am going to start each shave with a single knockdown pass with the DE89, then will shave with the Shell until satisfied that I have at least a SAS, though I often end up with better.
If the Shell seems to last longer than usual before needing attention, then it is totally my beard's fault. If it seems to last just about as long, then the initial knockdown pass will be inconclusive. Either way, once the Shell edge goes south, I will make the next shave with the J&R Dodge. If that shave goes nicely, then my stropping technique is not the problem. If, on the other hand, that first shave with the J&R Dodge that has been stropped every shave indicates the edge to be less than good, then my stropping technique will need a lot of revisiting.
One way or another, in a week or two I should have a bunch of new information.
Thank you guys, all of you. This community is awesome, and really helped me find reason and motivation to keep moving forward with the straight edge. And I do have to weigh in on that - when the straight shaves are good they are -SO GOOD-. It's definitely worth the bumps in the road!
I am going to shave with the Shell razor, because I keep getting the feeling that between the two that one seems to shave well for a little longer than the J&R Dodge. I am going to strop them both between each shave though.
I am going to start each shave with a single knockdown pass with the DE89, then will shave with the Shell until satisfied that I have at least a SAS, though I often end up with better.
If the Shell seems to last longer than usual before needing attention, then it is totally my beard's fault. If it seems to last just about as long, then the initial knockdown pass will be inconclusive. Either way, once the Shell edge goes south, I will make the next shave with the J&R Dodge. If that shave goes nicely, then my stropping technique is not the problem. If, on the other hand, that first shave with the J&R Dodge that has been stropped every shave indicates the edge to be less than good, then my stropping technique will need a lot of revisiting.
One way or another, in a week or two I should have a bunch of new information.
Thank you guys, all of you. This community is awesome, and really helped me find reason and motivation to keep moving forward with the straight edge. And I do have to weigh in on that - when the straight shaves are good they are -SO GOOD-. It's definitely worth the bumps in the road!
I'll be watching for your next update. I have a very similar story to yours. Razors only make it a few shaves before needing a refresh. I've got a tough beard that laughs at every honemeister edge it's seen. The advice I always got was that my technique is the problem. I can get a decent shave with a Feather AC though so I was always skeptical that it was just technique. I thought with a good enough edge I could get over that hump so over the past few years I've learned how to hone well enough to get a few comfortable shaves before the edge goes south. I've been mostly an injector and DE shaver while I work occasionally on my technique with straights. Can't wait to hear how your journey goes from here.
I often shave with a straight razor and DE razor as part of the same shave, but I have never done it in the sequence you used. I always start with a couple of passes with the straight razor and then use a DE for the clean-up pass to finish off those areas of my face that are difficult to get close enough with the straight.
Perhaps you should consider a knock down initial pass just for the experience followed by two with the SR.
Perhaps you should consider a knock down initial pass just for the experience followed by two with the SR.
I have difficulty shaving my jawline and chin due to the grain direction. It is difficult shaving ATG on my jaw with a straight due to the grain direction. Using a DE for clean-up is the only way I can get close enough.
On my chin, the hair sticks straight out from my face making is difficult to shave close, period. If I did the initial pass with a DE then I would just skip the straight and shave with the DE. I do that sometimes, but I never get quite as close overall with the DE alone as I do starting with a straight. There is nothing that shaves more efficiently that a straight razor.
Everyone has difficulty there. My cheeks are BBS, but I’m still working on the submandibular triangle. I have 50 full SR shaves in and I’m getting closer (no pun intended). Practice, practice, practice.
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I have some arthritis in my fingers and hands that prevent me from holding a straight razor at the proper angles to shave ATG on the difficult parts of my face. Since the handle of a DE razor is perpendicular to the blade, that allows me to achieve the angles that I have difficulty achieving with the straight. As they say, getting old is not for wimps.
That’s hard to envision. I don’t bend my wrist much and hold it like a Kamisori blade (butter knife) with blade up and it’s a natural feel. I shave there mostly with my elbow, rotating at the elbow.
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I have learned to shave with both hands and I hold the straight razor in a variety of ways. The only thing I cannot get is ATG on my jawline. The grain goes from the chin straight back towards my ear lobe. I can do WTG and various XTG strokes with no issue, but I cannot quite get my elbow, wrist and fingers into the correct position to go from my earlobe to my chin ATG. I can do a scythe stroke, but that won't get me quite as close as a pure ATG stroke. With the DE, I can do ATG and get BBS.
