What straight's do you have? Is there a visible and significant edge across the entire length of the blade? The cutting edge must be well set and defined, anything less and it will dull after a couple of shaves.
Exceedingly discouraged
- Thread starter Dzaw
- Start date
One more idea, use a knock down pass to start with your DE or shavette. Just something light, fast ,and easy. No detail at all. Don’t worry about missing spots.
Follow this with a first pass using your straight. See if not having to reduce your beard with the edge prolongs it’s effect. If that second pass is good, clean up with another pass of choice.
Follow this with a first pass using your straight. See if not having to reduce your beard with the edge prolongs it’s effect. If that second pass is good, clean up with another pass of choice.
- Thread starter
- #23
@MilkCrate and @Twelvefret - you guys are mad geniuses!
Those are the sorts of ideas that can really put new information into play. I thank you for helping me see past the problem.
For those asking - I am using a Shell razor and a J&R Dodge “Judicato”. Most often, I strop with a Fromm 3” hanging strop, but I’ve also tried a paddle strop and even newspaper.
Those are the sorts of ideas that can really put new information into play. I thank you for helping me see past the problem.
For those asking - I am using a Shell razor and a J&R Dodge “Judicato”. Most often, I strop with a Fromm 3” hanging strop, but I’ve also tried a paddle strop and even newspaper.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
You've clearly given this a lot of thought and put a lot of time and energy into it. I can understand you're discouraged and disheartened.
As a guy with only about 150 or so SR shaves I can't say my SR shaves are as good as my safety razor shaves, but I can say mine are improving, and very comfortable, and acceptable. I'm not sure what I'm doing that's different from you.
My shaves have improved a whole lot since the magic 100th shave! That's meant to be encouraging of you continuing, but there's not shame in stopping with the SR or going back to safety razors or even carts. It's supposed to be fun, right?
I suspect many of us consider going back to the safety razors. I probably would except for the comfort of the SR shaves. I just don't get that with the safety razors. Achieving journeyman status with the SR and all that's involved is quite an undertaking!
I have nothing to add really to the great advice already given. If I have to guess I think it's one of a few things.
That's just a guess. Really I don't know how to figure this one out, but you have already gotten great advice. Well, other than the advice to use tape - yes, I'm anti-tape - because you already know your edges are sharp off the stone. Same with the micro bevel I think.
I kinda think it's almost gotta be the steel or the stropping.
Please continue exploring this if you can just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm kidding about that of course as it's you that's suffering here. I know we all hate that for you.
Happy shaves,
Jim
As a guy with only about 150 or so SR shaves I can't say my SR shaves are as good as my safety razor shaves, but I can say mine are improving, and very comfortable, and acceptable. I'm not sure what I'm doing that's different from you.
My shaves have improved a whole lot since the magic 100th shave! That's meant to be encouraging of you continuing, but there's not shame in stopping with the SR or going back to safety razors or even carts. It's supposed to be fun, right?
I suspect many of us consider going back to the safety razors. I probably would except for the comfort of the SR shaves. I just don't get that with the safety razors. Achieving journeyman status with the SR and all that's involved is quite an undertaking!
I have nothing to add really to the great advice already given. If I have to guess I think it's one of a few things.
- Steel which is not good at holding the edge.
- Stropping incorrectly (but exactly what's wrong?).
- Lousy prep (but unlikely as you're not an ignorant newbie).
- Whiskers even more like little copper wires than mine (but I doubt this).
That's just a guess. Really I don't know how to figure this one out, but you have already gotten great advice. Well, other than the advice to use tape - yes, I'm anti-tape - because you already know your edges are sharp off the stone. Same with the micro bevel I think.
I kinda think it's almost gotta be the steel or the stropping.
Please continue exploring this if you can just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm kidding about that of course as it's you that's suffering here. I know we all hate that for you.
Happy shaves,
Jim
This idea is gold!
send it to someone after you hone and they can use for a bit. that’ll give you a secondary perspective.
Hope you figure it out and I'll be following the thread. Definitely hoping you don't give up!
I've been using straights for just over a year exclusively and DE for 5-6 years before that. Fortunately for me I took to straights like a duck to water, even more so than DE's, but definitely found that it needed a good few months and shaves to get comfortable.
From my experience when I have a problem 9 times out of 10 it's technique even if I don't realize till later. The other 1 time it's probably also technique, but I can plausibly blame somethings else as well.
If you can eliminate honing and stropping definitely go back to basics on blade angle and short strokes.
I've been using straights for just over a year exclusively and DE for 5-6 years before that. Fortunately for me I took to straights like a duck to water, even more so than DE's, but definitely found that it needed a good few months and shaves to get comfortable.
From my experience when I have a problem 9 times out of 10 it's technique even if I don't realize till later. The other 1 time it's probably also technique, but I can plausibly blame somethings else as well.
If you can eliminate honing and stropping definitely go back to basics on blade angle and short strokes.
I suspect our friend has a thick, wiry beard. He's also probably shaving his entire face.
- Thread starter
- #29
You are correct on both fronts.
My whiskers have a semi regional reputation for how ridiculously tough they are. When I used to shave in the shower, I’ve had two different family members come away with splinters in their feet, except those painful splinters were my whiskers. I am also shaving from upper sideburns all the way down to bottom of throat, ear to ear moustache included.
I have places that challenge even a new artist club in the Feather shavette.
You’ve been very diligent in your approach. I suspect you and me just have to learn that what works for others might not work for us. This is why a knock down does so much for me.
However this morning I used the Torrey and got a nice shave. It was kind of a no thought shave. Sometimes I’m guilting of over thinking .
@Dzaw how many good shaves do you get with a DE razor blade compared to straight razor?
What grit/micron do you need to drop down to when doing touch up after 3 shaves?
What conclusion do you make out of "I have places that challenge even a new artist club in the Feather shavette"
compared to "However this morning I used the Torrey and got a nice shave" ?
I'm seriously curious what you conclude, not trying to be rude.
What grit/micron do you need to drop down to when doing touch up after 3 shaves?
What conclusion do you make out of "I have places that challenge even a new artist club in the Feather shavette"
compared to "However this morning I used the Torrey and got a nice shave" ?
I'm seriously curious what you conclude, not trying to be rude.
@Twelvefret,
"The context of the first quote is to say that for some of us even a Feather AC is not going to feel sharp".
Sounds hard...
"The second quote says that my honing worked".
Top!
Here's a youtube video when Matt send 2 straights to someone with very tuff beard.
Doesn't tell how the edge last though....
"The context of the first quote is to say that for some of us even a Feather AC is not going to feel sharp".
Sounds hard...
"The second quote says that my honing worked".
Top!
Here's a youtube video when Matt send 2 straights to someone with very tuff beard.
Doesn't tell how the edge last though....
Some folks claim to get dozens of shaves before refreshing the edge. Other use pasted strops to maintain edges almost indefinitely. But you experience is also not unusual.
I have a tough beard and sensitive skin. I can never get more than a few shaves before it either starts to tug or feels harsh on the face. I pull out my finishing hone, make a few laps, polish the edge on pasted strops and the edge is ready to go again. I touch up edges so frequently that I keep a finishing hone on the bathroom counter so I can touch up the edge anytime it is not giving a superb shave. It is just something you have to accept if you have a tough beard.
The nice thing about refreshing an edge is that you do not have to go back through the entire honing progression. A single hone can be sufficient to do the refresh if it is capable of producing an edge suitable for your beard and face. Although I can shave at the 12K level, I prefer even higher grits. I can get better edges better than a 12K Naniwa from some natural stones like the Greek Vermio and the Zulu Grey. I also have an Imperia La Roccia stone that produces a edge on par with my 16K Shapton Glass ceramic. However, not everyone likes the ILR stones. I recently purchased a Shehiro Gokumyo 20K (0.5 micron grit) ceramic that produces a sharp edge without becoming harsh. They are rather expensive, however. I have only done a few edges with the G20K so far, but it is quickly becoming my favorite hone.
I have a tough beard and sensitive skin. I can never get more than a few shaves before it either starts to tug or feels harsh on the face. I pull out my finishing hone, make a few laps, polish the edge on pasted strops and the edge is ready to go again. I touch up edges so frequently that I keep a finishing hone on the bathroom counter so I can touch up the edge anytime it is not giving a superb shave. It is just something you have to accept if you have a tough beard.
The nice thing about refreshing an edge is that you do not have to go back through the entire honing progression. A single hone can be sufficient to do the refresh if it is capable of producing an edge suitable for your beard and face. Although I can shave at the 12K level, I prefer even higher grits. I can get better edges better than a 12K Naniwa from some natural stones like the Greek Vermio and the Zulu Grey. I also have an Imperia La Roccia stone that produces a edge on par with my 16K Shapton Glass ceramic. However, not everyone likes the ILR stones. I recently purchased a Shehiro Gokumyo 20K (0.5 micron grit) ceramic that produces a sharp edge without becoming harsh. They are rather expensive, however. I have only done a few edges with the G20K so far, but it is quickly becoming my favorite hone.
That’s what barber homes are for and I’m sure they used them frequently. I have 7” acrylic blocks and film. I just haven’t got around to setting it up.
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Well, it just is what it is. Suffice to say that one person’s shave ready is not another’s. This is why I feel sending razors out is hit or miss, but to each their own.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Nice annotated round up of good finishing stones.
I have a Zulu Grey but haven't used it yet. I'm focusing on my rectangular coticule (and haven't used my coticule bout yet either). Sometimes I get a great edge with the coticule. Sometimes I need a bit of help from my pasted strops.
It's not easy to move into journeyman status with the SR and honing, but I think it worth doing.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I once sent 3 straights to a person with coarse beard. He said that "shave ready" razors usually wasn't comfortable shavers for him why he learnt to hone himself.
The one out of the 3 he found shaving best was close to his own edges.
My honing ego got a bang. Used to hear "sharp" or similar as comment.
So I guess experimenting with honing might be more useful if having coarse beard.
This was the progression he used:
Naniwa Chosera/Pro stones 600 through 12k plus Naniwa Snow White plus a SG20k + felt strop with .5 micron chromium oxide sprayed on.
This surprised me a as I thought a micro convex bevel would give a more robust edge and be wanted with coarse beard. But then I do not know what a SG20 + chromium oxide on felt do with the edge but my guess is it don't micro convex.
Okay and thanks for the post.
So, for me part of using a SR is to know your own beard. My trouble spots are below the nose, chin, and corners. Don’t want to do lots of passes due to irritation, therefore the edge needs to be keen to begin.
I just use either a Coticule or Thuringian followed by linen and horse hide.
