I know this is a long shot but I hope I can get some help!I recently purchased this set of three Arkansas stones in box it has a soft/washitas( looks like my old Smith washitas) a hard and a black which is why I bought it originally. Based on the box it looks like an old Smiths bought I am not sure that is what it is. Second question I have is, is it possible to identify equivocaly whether the black stone is actually novaculite or one of the dunstons without destructive testing or specific gravity. Currently I don't have a scale to check it. The stone does appear much harder than the dunstons I had before I sold it but I is completely opaque.
Arkansas stone manufacturer identification
- Thread starter sydres
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Smith's or cabelas(which I believe is smith's rebranded). Those should all be actual arks, not Dunston. The purple calico stone is one of the best knife stones you'll own. The middle and the black + time/ lots of laps are enough to do anything you need with a razor.
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- #4
Thanks Empire! I have another one of the calicos but thicker and in a smiths box. I've been wanting to try a good black ark and that's why I paid the 15 dollars for the set. Really didn't need it as I have a nice grayish colored translucent I bought as a second as well as a Norton's hard penknife stone both of which give great edges. Now that I think of it I may be developing a problem as I believe I'm up to 12 Arkansas/washitas of various natures.
Sg will be the easiest way to check. Borrow someone’s digital kitchen scales. That should be accurate enough to tell.
They would be different when lapping as well, but without having another to compare it to, that will be less conclusive.
They would be different when lapping as well, but without having another to compare it to, that will be less conclusive.
Sydres, get help "NOW"! Preferably from someone with a lot of letters after their name....all consonants...no vowels. Untreated it only gets worse. You could end up in a filthy alley trying to lap a beater Ark on a piece of flat concrete. A shopping cart full of Arks doesn't roll very well.
They've considered a group for Arkaholics but gave up on the idea due to the recidivism rate. The user is likely to use again and again despite group counseling.
I'm up 4 translucents I didn't really need so far this year, but the year isn't over and I'm not broke yet so come on Fleabay, throw me another bone!!!! H.A.D. It's ugly man, real ugly.........
I've not had a smith's black hard ark but I'm pretty sure they only ever sold novaculite instead of Dunston, but you might want to double check that. I've got a calico smith's hard that's identical to a Dan's black in use.
Those were pretty popular, a lot of companies branded them for sale. A while back, Natural Wetstones sold themwith the same sort of divided interior; came with a marble-type soft Ark, white-ish hard, and a surgical black. I am sure a few sources OEM'd them for mail order companies like Sonoma, Brookstone, Hoffritz etc. I had one just like that from Garrett Wade. Coulda been OEM'd by Dans for all I know. Don't see any trace of a label on yours, hard to say who made it.
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- #9
Thanks to everyone who commented! I haven't had a chance to get a scale yet but it's on my list. I have been working with this set for the last few days and find it does an excellent job on my french kitchen knives albeit a little tight to work with. The black stone refreshed an old straight razor that I hadn't honed in a while, brought the edge back surprisingly quickly, so might be a bit coarser than my translucents. Overall I'm very happy with this set and since the finish on the box is so rough I might redo it.
If you didn't resurface them the surface prep is probably what's making it seem coarser. I only finish mine up to about 400-600 so they remain fast but fine. Once you get one burnished and finished to 1k+ they slow down to the point of almost stopping cutting steel but they will finish finer if you've got the time.
It seems Smith's was the source for the calico washita's for many years. I think it was Indian Mountain (Dan's) had the Case knifes branded stones and Smith's had Buck knives.
Short of a laboratory analysis there is no telling where stone comes from as it's proprietary information.
Short of a laboratory analysis there is no telling where stone comes from as it's proprietary information.
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- #12
So I finally got a scale to check specific gravity. Ran a few stones including the black stone from the set. Came up with a S.G. of 2.73. Checked a couple others including a couple washitas and a translucent. Everything seems to be in range except a stone I thought was a washita (fast, slightly slurries, translucent) it has an SG of 2.5 anyway the black stones SG seems a bit high?
My formula is dry weight divided by displaced weight in water.
My formula is dry weight divided by displaced weight in water.
SG of blacks runs a bit higher do to the high SG impurities that make it black. IIRC
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- #14
Ok so then specific gravity isn't as cut and dry as some vendors make it out to be in regards to Arkansas stones
That 2.5 stone is probably similar to the white crystalline smith's hard Arks. They are like a hard/fine no 1 washita. That black one seems heavy, maybe it is a Dunston, but I wouldn't know I've never held or used one.
If that is a normal black ark it's probably a really really fine one, surface prep will completely determine the stones character for the most part I would imagine.
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- #17
My statement before just did not do it justice whoever made it did an incredible job lapping it. Not quite glassy smooth but seems to be lapped much finer than my Norton translucent was and didn't really have much wear but not as fine a finish as my other translucent which made it seem coarser in comparison. Now that I've used it a fair bit it has smoothed out even better. Doesn't act like the dunston I used to own even though it is completely opaque it has less pores and much harder doesn't scratch with a knife which the dunstons did with effort. Whether or not it's just a particularly hard specimen of dunston I don't know. What I do know is that it handles a razor touch up quite acceptably. It's all ok as I have what should be a modern surgical black coming in the mail this week I'll be able to compare.
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SG testing may or may not help to identify a stone but, if has an SG of 1.5 and gives me a beautiful apex, I'll cherish it. No stone left behind.
Some outlier's, on the edge's, of what some, consider the proper ranges of SG for stone ID..... are....down right wonderful!
I saw a lovely 4 stone set on a blog. The Far-Eastern Wood Butcher: Prime cuts from the far east. - https://woodslave.blogspot.com/
Check out the post...10 Things I learnt about Arkansas Stones.....(his spelling, not mine)
Please scroll down the mention of "Kanaban".
Nothing pertaining to razors, but interesting none the less and nice pics of beautiful bevels on Japanese wood chisels.
I have no opinion of anything going on here, correct or incorrect or even YMMV. I do not agree or disagree with anything this guy does and I kind of admire him for experimenting so he can maximize his tools at hand.
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