Indeed. I think the Fiat 500 is more reliable. Seriously.
About expensive shaving products; I am sure that there is a large markup due to marketing and smaller volumes. I really wonder if the net price of the ingredients is that much different.
Soap vs Creme
- Thread starter Royalpar1
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Indeed. I think the Fiat 500 is more reliable. Seriously.
About expensive shaving products; I am sure that there is a large markup due to marketing and smaller volumes. I really wonder if the net price of the ingredients is that much different.
- Thread starter
- #82
LOL, Probably
on reliability but not on quality, function or performance, however the cost of the ingredients in shaving soaps/cremes although more expensive on a net basis perhaps not much in our terms, but could be a huge percentage difference. i.e essential oils are MUCH more expensive than fragrance . I can tell you that the quality becomes apparent when you compare and contrast one against the other.- Thread starter
- #83
LOL, i will agree to disagree, however unless you have used the 6 brands listed above as I have, how are you able to comment on the quality, performance or value ? SMN gives the finest shave with the finest ingredients on the planet earth. Try it for a week.
I think there's not a correct answer. IMHO, whatever works for you is the correct answer.
I would have to take in consideration, brush, water, water temperature, water hardness or softness, etc. Too many variables to make a specific statement as the one that started the thread. Of course, this is just my opinion
Some very good and valid points.
i use both, and get good shaves from both, my Proraso Blue, TOBS Avocado, GFT Spanish Leather cremes make very nice lather, as does my soaps (GFT Eurcris, Truefitt & Hill Sandalwood, Dr. Harris Marlborough, Proraso Green, Tabac, QCS). However i do prefer using soaps.
i like the loading of my brush off of a puck.
I'm not. I've never commented on the actual performance of any of them, except the old formula SMN, which I have used. (I've still got a seven-year-old, mostly full tub of it in my stash, which shows you how much I like it.) I wouldn't even have said anything in here, except that you proclaimed, point-blank, the über-high-end products use superior ingredients. That took the conversation away from subjective appreciation into a matter of factual accuracy.
As for why I don't buy into the hype, I said all I need to say in another thread. To quote myself: "the feeling I'm getting fleeced offsets any potential enjoyment I'd get out of the product."
Care to examine the difference between a $30K Chevrolet and a $50K Buick?
In my experience the major difference between "expensive" soaps and Artisan soaps is the Artisan soaps are mostly poured soaps, ie. a single process step, while the more expensive soaps are triple milled or otherwise more processed.
Granted, extra manufacturing stages adds costs to the product. But without some quantitative data about ingredients all one can really say is "I like this one better."
- Thread starter
- #87
Jerry, I dont know about the older forumulation if any on SMN nor do i know how well the creme would last for 7 years, however, please use it in the morning and tell me your thoughts on the product?
it might be just because I'm weird, but I find creams to give me a less irritable shave. Every time I shave with soap I get a few bumps here and there, but with creams I get nothing.
I didn't get around to using it today, but I can certainly tell you my thoughts on the product. It is a very close cousin of Proraso green soap. The smell and appearance are very slightly different from Proraso, and there are minimal differences in the formulation; however, I notice no difference in performance compared to Proraso. It's a decent performer, but I find it doesn't offer the glide or cushion of my preferred British creams. I also find it leaves my face feeling a bit dry and tight.
It's held up perfectly well over the years. The combination of parabens and low moisture gives it a long shelf life.
Interesting. No sooner do I say the above than you drag out this thread. That is exactly the kind of thread that got me to buy SMN in the first place. And what's more, it's working again - causing me to question my own observations, given that the overwhelming sentiment in there is that SMN is superior to Proraso, despite the similarities. It's academic at this point, since the formulations of both products have changed since then. But since I still have old versions of both of them (and don't have the newer versions of either), I might as well test them out. I'll give them both a fair shot and report back.
One thing that is interesting to note: accounts in that thread state that, at the time, a 150ml tub of Proraso soap cost $9.95, whereas a 250 ml tub of SMN cost $52. Six years later, a 150ml tub of Proraso still goes for $9.95, but a 220 ml tub of SMN (they reduced the size) goes for $71. That's quite a price hike.
One thing that is interesting to note: accounts in that thread state that, at the time, a 150ml tub of Proraso soap cost $9.95, whereas a 250 ml tub of SMN cost $52. Six years later, a 150ml tub of Proraso still goes for $9.95, but a 220 ml tub of SMN (they reduced the size) goes for $71. That's quite a price hike.
I think a big part of it is the experience. If the shave quality and scent are similar, it comes down to the building of lather. Some folks have issues with a lot of soaps, maybe due to water, and that can make creams preferable as they are easier to load and build. Others like the tradition and method of loading off a soap and may not have any water issues.
- Thread starter
- #92
It took me 4 days to figure out how to dial in the lather, now its crazy voluminous and I must dial back the amount. Load time will now go to 15 seconds- Thread starter
- #93
Jerry, come home to Papa !
Wow, just saw the price of a 7.5 jar of SMN cream at their site. I would have to really like this cream to pay that much. I am sure one day I will break weak and buy it, but wow, is it that good?
- Thread starter
- #95
Yes, IMHO it is that good. However, 71.00 ? Not sure, but AdP, Xpec and ABC are all up there in price, I feel it is the best of crèmes/croap , i.e the aforementioned. It is probably a 9 month or more amount of crème, the smell, lather,protection, slickness is superior. I have not even gotten a small weeper since using it. Would I buy it again? YES !
Thanks for the information. I always like to read actual experiences, not opinions.
Experiences are still opinions, if you think about it. That's why everything here bears the caveat, "YMMV." There's certainly no guarantee Royalpar's experience with SMN cream will match yours. That said, most reports on the current SMN formula are pretty positive. (There's a whole other issue with the accuracy of self-reporting by an inherently small group who are personally invested in getting enjoyment out of the money they just spent, but I won't go into that.)
Here's an interesting point that is experience based (admittedly, not my experience): according to another member, SMN sells for 35 euros at the pharmacy in Florence. That's roughly $39.60 US for a 220 ml tub, which puts it squarely in Castle Forbes price territory. Consider that $39.60 already has the profit margin built in for retail sale in Italy, and is already positioned for the market SMN wishes to inhabit. That means the additional $31.40 it sells for here is pure distributor markup.
Yep, those high-quality ingredients sure do drive up the price.
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And speaking of experience, I got around to trying old formula SMN and comparing it to old formula Proraso soap. First off, let me preface this by saying I don’t use either one very often, and when I do use Proraso, it is almost always as precursor to a superlather with Proraso cream in a tube. I can’t remember the last time I used it by itself, although I did just use it in tandem with Proraso cream within the last couple of weeks.
Today, I started with Proraso by itself, then followed up with a second pass using SMN. I lathered both with a Simpson CH2 Chubby Super two-band, and shaved with a 7 O’Clock PII on a Merkur handle. I was surprised that the SMN really did produce a richer, thicker lather than the Proraso soap, despite the fact they have almost the exact same formula. So, on that point, I stand corrected. However, the superlather of Proraso soap and cream together was roughly the same as SMN cream by itself. This might be why I remember SMN as performing the same as Proraso. Also, whenever I use either brand, I typically use the Proraso pre-shave. Today, I used pre-shave oil. Perhaps not coincidentally, I didn’t suffer the dryness I usually do.
In all, I’d say the old SMN delivered a nice, but not mind-blowing, shave. Lather was rich, cushion was good, and glide was decent. Smell was slightly milder than Proraso, but not all that different. I could see myself continuing to use it with some regularity until it’s used up. I also acknowledge that, when compared to Proraso soap, there is a distinct difference between the two. Based on my experience this morning, I would agree with the claims by other members that SMN was the superior product. All that said, I don’t feel it delivers a better shave than the two Proraso products used in tandem; nor does it perform as well as my preferred British creams. For that reason, my personal opinion is that it doesn’t warrant the price I paid for it*, and were it still available for that price today, I don’t imagine I would repurchase it. Obviously this has no bearing on the current cream, which is a different formula at a different price point.
*I don’t remember what I paid for it, but the $52 mentioned in the older thread sounds about right. Mine is the 250 ml tub.
Today, I started with Proraso by itself, then followed up with a second pass using SMN. I lathered both with a Simpson CH2 Chubby Super two-band, and shaved with a 7 O’Clock PII on a Merkur handle. I was surprised that the SMN really did produce a richer, thicker lather than the Proraso soap, despite the fact they have almost the exact same formula. So, on that point, I stand corrected. However, the superlather of Proraso soap and cream together was roughly the same as SMN cream by itself. This might be why I remember SMN as performing the same as Proraso. Also, whenever I use either brand, I typically use the Proraso pre-shave. Today, I used pre-shave oil. Perhaps not coincidentally, I didn’t suffer the dryness I usually do.
In all, I’d say the old SMN delivered a nice, but not mind-blowing, shave. Lather was rich, cushion was good, and glide was decent. Smell was slightly milder than Proraso, but not all that different. I could see myself continuing to use it with some regularity until it’s used up. I also acknowledge that, when compared to Proraso soap, there is a distinct difference between the two. Based on my experience this morning, I would agree with the claims by other members that SMN was the superior product. All that said, I don’t feel it delivers a better shave than the two Proraso products used in tandem; nor does it perform as well as my preferred British creams. For that reason, my personal opinion is that it doesn’t warrant the price I paid for it*, and were it still available for that price today, I don’t imagine I would repurchase it. Obviously this has no bearing on the current cream, which is a different formula at a different price point.
*I don’t remember what I paid for it, but the $52 mentioned in the older thread sounds about right. Mine is the 250 ml tub.
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- Thread starter
- #99
That is not fact just conjecture on your part based on hearsay. Should you wish to hold all to a higher standard of fact, then let it begin with you. You have no idea about the cost of ingredients nor the cost of manufacturing, marketing or distribution. I would suggest you don't count other companies profits. Should you NOT wish to pay up for a premium product, i.e Xpec, MDC, ABC, AdP or even CF, then stick with the lower end brands and enjoy them. They are good, just not as good. Your TF cream does not come close to CF. While CF is a top 10 crème. Don't pay up, buy a Toyota not a Lexus, buy a Chevy not a Cadillac, buy a smart car not a Mercedes, There is a place for all and for all a place. IMHO and YMMV
- Thread starter
- #100
How much do you pay to Uberlather ? Also how do you quantify "roughly the same" translates to not quite as good. So how much is Proraso Soap, Proraso cream and your preshave oil ? Perhaps the difference in price between all 3 is not so much
and you can have a better product with better ingredients and put a smile on everyones face IMHO, and YMMV
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