Thoughts on tallow versus veggie soaps ...

[JCinPA]

A comment from Marco got me to thinking about this, especially since my new La Famiglia soaps showed up. When I was young and stupid (about a year ago ... well I wasn't young, but I was stupid!) I thought veggie meant melt-and-pour, glycerin soaps.

Now that I've tried more stuff and learned a little more hanging around here, I realize I had a misconception thinking all white hard-to-soft soaps were tallow. Now I realize that is not the case. I thought I was a "tallow guy" through and through. Now I'm not so sure. I don't think tallow versus veggie is such a big thing, frankly, although I am always still less than completely satisfied with melt/pour soaps (although some are quite good, and I still dabble there occasionally).

Tallow soaps I love:

vintage Old Spice
Tabac
RazoRock Artisan line
Proraso (I think that is tallow, may be wrong)
vintage D.R. Harris
Queen Charlotte Green creams

Veggie soaps I love:

The new RazoRock La Famiglia line
Provence Sante
Martin de Candre


I no longer think tallow is the be-all-and-end-all ingredient. I am as happy, or happier with the RazoRock La Famiglia Zi Peppino as I am with Tabac. I am as happy with Provence Sante as I am with Razorock Artisan Mughetto di Bologna, as happy with Martin de Candre and the old D.R. Harris.

I no longer think the ingredient list is that important, frankly. It is the maker's knowledge of the ingredients and the way it is made that makes the difference. I get super slick lather, thick and rich, from QCS, RazoRock Artisan, Provence Sante, RazoRock La Famiglia, Martin de Candre, good old OLD Old Spice or Tabac.

Does tallow versus veggie really matter? I mean at all? I am beginning to think not. I used to always go for tallow, thinking that was the magical ingredient. No longer! Two shaves with MdC cured me of that! And though I LOVE my RazoRock MdB (tallow) I would not give up my new La Famiglia soaps (veggie) without a fight!


What do you guys think?

 

[7 O Menthol]

I've been noticing several observations like yours above, and making my own based on the testing of bkfist's similarly themed thread.
I will say that I was a (probably pretty rare) vegetarian who only enjoyed tallow soaps. That being so, the experimenting and the recent comments like yours led me to purchase several la famiglia veggie soaps which just arrived tonight. I can't wait to try my first quality veggie soaps so I can join the club
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Prof. Moriarty]

I love my tallow soaps just as much as I love my veggie soaps. I wouldn't trade one for the other, and shave wise they are both excellent. Thanks for the write up John, I enjoyed reading it.

Side note: DR Harris still has tallow in it, John.

 

[mctmatt]

I was on an all tallow kick for a short period, but as I have tried several other soaps such as RR XXX, Fresco, La Toja, my position is a great shaving soap/cream is just that and I am not so concerned about it being tallow or veg.

 

[the_edski]

I absolutely agree with you on this point!

. It is the maker's knowledge of the ingredients and the way it is made that makes the difference.

 

[petr]

The issue is ... the English firms reformulated some very cherished soaps that we loved from tallow to veggie and it is disastrous. Some of us have not gotten over that.

Yes, the RR new soaps and TFS are a force to be reckoned with. So is SMN. I'm catching flawless shaves.

But ... try some yardley and you may feel differently.

 

[Cochese2323]

I never have based my soap selections on it having or not having tallow. A good soap is simply a good soap IMHO. But there seems to be more options of good performing soaps that do contain tallow.

 

[GreekGuy]

The issue is ... the English firms reformulated some very cherished soaps that we loved from tallow to veggie and it is disastrous. Some of us have not gotten over that.

I suspect this is where some of the tallow fanaticism comes from as well. MdC is veggie, TFS is veggie, Modern Williams is tallow. I think that says it all

 

[VT_Hokie]

I'm with you all the way.

I think where Veggie soaps get the bad rep is in reformulation. A good shaving soap is all about the proper proportions of the right ingredients. Doesn't matter if it contains tallow or not. La Toja, MdC, RR MdF, etc. are all perfect examples of this.

The problem arrises when you reformulate and remove one or more key ingredients without balancing the rest of the formula.

 

[Price]

John,

Reading you post, I realized might well have written it myself. I had the exact same misconceptions, and my eyes were opened by the exact same "savon". I do find that the majority of the soaps that I'm holding on to are tallow, but that's no longer a qualifier.

I think petr has hit on the likely cause of the non-tallow hate. All too many well-loved favorites have been reformulated over the past few years from tallow to non-tallow, and are now mere shadows of their former selves (at best). The all-too-natural reaction is the prejudice that is so prevalent here. If Penhaligon's (for example) had taken the time to figure out how to produce a non-tallow Blenheim Bouquet that performs like MdC or La Toja, instead of rushing to re-formulate, I'm quite sure it would still be being mentioned in the lists of "favorites", rather than the lists of "overpriced garbage", and the tallow bias would probably not even exist.

 

[Absolute Mustard]

Tallow isnt the be all ingredient, but my favorite soaps have it

There are also terrible tallow soaps (Williams)

 

[mblakele]

I enjoy several non-tallow soaps, but there is something about tallow. Even the word for soap derives from the Latin word for tallow: "non saponem sine sebum". Without tallow, there is no soap.

 

[Brent]

I agree, tallow or veggie doesn't matter to me. What matters is what works for me.

I'm just glad that I didn't start seeing the tallow vs veggie until I was 6 months in so by that time I looked at my selection and I was 50/50 tallow/veg in my favorites, do I didn't fall into any misconceptions.

 

[Mirrorsaw]

I won't say I'm new to this. However my lack of soap AD has made me pick and choose soaps based on whats said rather if it has the tallow or no tallow. My favorite soap has the tallow (MWF) but some of the other soaps I own don't and I really like them a lot. (PdP, my trial of MdC)

 

[cdrross]

I was just thinking about starting a new post just like this.
I have been using DR Harris Marlborough almost exclusively for the past few months as I was getting down towards the end of my puck and I have a back-up that I wanted to get into my container (this is one of my little anal peeves - having a remnant of something left -please forgive). I have also have in my rotation: DR Harris Arlington, MWF, and Tabac.
Anyway, I finished the DR Harris and I had another small quantity of La Toja that I received (another remnant). I did my first shave with La Toja and WOW! I really like this stuff. I may have to get a full size replacement in the future.

 

[JCinPA]

Interesting thread! I wasn't in the wet shaving deal when the reformulations took place, but I can see the issues that might be caused by doing it wrong. Clearly, when done right, apparently tallow/veggie simply does not matter. Although one man's favorite might be tallow and another's veggie, I think the idea that tallow > veggie or veggie > tallow has been put to rest here. I don't even think the YMMV tag is needed.

 

[oversaturn]

For me, I do not divide soaps into tallow and veggie ones.

I usually divide them into "well formulated soaps that perform good" and "poorly formulated soaps that suck".
And there are either tallow and veggie ones that find their place in each of those 2 categories. ;-D

 

[Haggises]

If it works it's a keeper, tallow or veggie.

Though if Arko reformulates I'm going to cry.

 

[JCinPA]

For me, I do not divide soaps into tallow and veggie ones.

I usually divide them into "well formulated soaps that perform good" and "poorly formulated soaps that suck".
And there are either tallow and veggie ones that find their place in each of those 2 categories. ;-D

And ....


[/thread]

 

[Sledgehammer39]

Both types work well for me!