Do Shaving Soap Trace Ingredients Ever Matter or is it All About the Base?

[blethenstrom]

You are right, we can not know exactly though the placement of a chemical in the ingredients list can give us a pretty good idea.

For example the Razorock P.160 ingredients list is:

Ingredients: Stearic Acid, Water(Eau), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium, Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Tallow Acid, Hydrogenated Lanolin, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea)Butter,Fragrance(Parfum), Argania Spinosa (Argan)Oil, Aloe Barbadensis Extract(Aloe).

From some soap recipes I've seen the saponification chemicals (Potassium (KOh) and Sodium Hydroxide (NaOh)) are often in total a small percentage of the fatty acids (Stearic Acid and Coconut Oil here). I've seen rations such as 1:7 to 1:6 in on-line recipes. Throw in the water and other ingredients and the total amount of saponification chemicals starts to approach just 10% of the total ingredients by weight. For example one possible hypothetical recipe per the above could be 60% Stearic Acid/Coconut Oil, 20% water, 5% each of the hydroxides and just 10% to cover all the other 6 ingredients or 1-2% each. Anything much larger and you wouldn't have the right fatty acid to Na/KOh ratio.

Given that this recipe is split between two saponification agents all the stuff that comes after such as tallow, lanolin and Shea Butter is likely at a low single digit percent of the ingredients total by weight for this soap. Hence why it's likely fair to refer to all the ingredients on this list that come after the sodium hydroxide as trace ingredients.

The point I was trying to make is this. Stearic acid and coconut oil are the main acids. We know that you want a high stearic acid content for a good shave soap. However with only the order known you can have any amounts. I can have 80% stearic, 15% coconut and then the trace oils/fats. This would yield a great shave soap.

I can also have 50% stearic acid, 49% coconut oil and the rest trace ingredients and that would be less stellar shave soap. I still meet the ingredient list order. Please note that I only counted the acid percentages and not water not lye.

That was the point I was trying to make. We might be able to make some conclusions based on where water, lye etc are as well.

 

[musicman1951]

Aside from scent, I can't imagine how I would judge the value of any individual ingredients in a soap. Call the maker and ask for a puck without one of the ingredients?

I readily admit I don't spend much time (any?) studying the ingredients list of soaps. While I have a general attitude that the fewer the better is the way to go, I use the soaps that work the best for me.

 

[Lane101]

The point I was trying to make is this. Stearic acid and coconut oil are the main acids. We know that you want a high stearic acid content for a good shave soap. However with only the order known you can have any amounts. I can have 80% stearic, 15% coconut and then the trace oils/fats. This would yield a great shave soap.

I can also have 50% stearic acid, 49% coconut oil and the rest trace ingredients and that would be less stellar shave soap. I still meet the ingredient list order. Please note that I only counted the acid percentages and not water not lye.

That was the point I was trying to make. We might be able to make some conclusions based on where water, lye etc are as well.

Fair point on the main ingredients near the top of the list.

 

[Lane101]

Aside from scent, I can't imagine how I would judge the value of any individual ingredients in a soap. Call the maker and ask for a puck without one of the ingredients?

I readily admit I don't spend much time (any?) studying the ingredients list of soaps. While I have a general attitude that the fewer the better is the way to go, I use the soaps that work the best for me.

Hi Musicman, You are right that this is a challenge and Razorock presents a unique opportunity because of their wide range of soft Italian shaving soaps that use the same base. As a resulut they effectively did what you suggested with their range of soft Italian soaps that lets us analyze this. Most here find that these soaps deliver similar core shaving performance, I can't tell them apart with the exception of scent.

Classic Italian has the same base as "Red Bowl" with some trace ingredients. For P.160 RR answered your request by adding just a small amount of Tallow to the base - likely under 5% given it comes after the saponification chemicals. XXX is the same as P.160 with more scent ingredients.

I could not detect any difference in core performance from the base ingedients with the only difference being the XXX scent (the other three are almond scent). The only RR soft Italian soap I own that delivers different core performance, Mudder Focker, has a different base as noted above plus Fullers Earth with the result being additional slickness.

Bottom line is that we can conclude that many shaving soap trace ingredients, those that come after the saponification chemicals for purposes other than scent, don't seem to materially impact core shaving performance. This also supports your view that fewer ingredients is better. Again, all these soaps are good, either on price per ounce or for scent (XXX is nice) based on your preferences. At the $4.99 and $3.99 sale prices I paid these soaps are bargains.

Note that @blethenstrom is right, while this approach is valid for the trace ingredients it is less useful for the main ingredients that are listed prior to the saponification chemicals.


Comparison of Select Soft Italian Shaving Soap Ingredients from Razorock/TFS: (Base in Blue Italics)(Additional Ingredients from above soap in red Italics)

Tcheon Fung Sing "Ciotola Rossa"/"Red Bowl" Traditional Artisan Shaving Soap:
Stearic Acid, Aqua(Water), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Fragrance (Parfum), Potassium Carbonate

RR Classic Italian Shaving Soap: (Above TFS Base with added trace ingredients)
Stearic Acid, Aqua (Water/Eau), Cocos Nucifera(Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Hydrogenated Lanolin, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea)Butter, Fragrance(Parfum), Argania Spinosa (Argan)Oil, Aloe Barbadensis Extract(Aloe).

P.160 Shaving Soap:(Identical to above Classic Italian soap other than small amount of Tallow added)
Stearic Acid, Water(Eau), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium, Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Tallow Acid, Hydrogenated Lanolin, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea)Butter,Fragrance(Parfum), Argania Spinosa (Argan)Oil, Aloe Barbadensis Extract(Aloe).

XXX Shaving Soap: (Identical to P.160 with only difference being additional scent ingredients below in red)
Stearic Acid, Water(Eau), Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium, Hydroxide, Sodium Hydroxide, Tallow Acid, Hydrogenated Lanolin, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea)Butter Fragrance(Parfum), Argania Spinosa (Argan)Oil, Aloe Barbadensis Extract(Aloe), Amylcinnamic Aldehyde , Benzyl Alcohol, Citral, Coumarin, Eugenol, Geraniol, Hydrocitronellal, Limonene, Linalool, Isoeugenol, Oakmoss(Evernia Prunasti).

 

[blethenstrom]

I could not detect any difference in core performance from the base ingedients with the only difference being the XXX scent (the other three are almond scent). The only RR soft Italian soap I own that delivers different core performance, Mudder Focker, has a different base as noted above plus Fullers Earth with the result being additional slickness.

This struck up a bit of curiosity in me and I had to look up what this "Fullers earth" is.

"What Is Fuller’s Earth?
Fuller’s Earth, also known as Solum Fullonum, is a natural clay material that has been widely used in the cosmetic industry for its numerous beneficial properties. It is a non-plastic variety of Kaolin containing an aluminum-magnesium silicate. Its official CosIng functions include absorbent, anticaking, bulking, gel-forming, opacifying, and viscosity controlling." - Fuller's Earth: What Is It, Cosmetic Benefits & Side Effects – glooshi. - https://www.glooshi.com/fullers-earth/

It looks like it is very similar to Kaolin clay and this explains why it adds additional slickness. I personally add a bit of bentonite clay to my shave soap for the same reason. Clay does increase slickness and gives the soap a bit of slip. Some wet shaver believe that clays in shave soap will dull blades quicker, but I have not found that personally.

However, you do have to be careful of how much clay you add to a soap because clay by nature can draw moisture from the skin. Now it does also help the skin by removing impurities as well so it does have some benefits as well. Think of the clay masks that the ladies do on their face. It removes impurities from your pores.

 

[pellidon]

I'm a beginner soap maker. I haven't tried to make a shaving soap yet. But over on the soap making forum, the general consensus is that the oils at the lower end of the quantity scale do not add much to the skin benefit. The reason being is that they are wash off soaps and any health benefit from a specific oil is minimized. It's more about the marketing on the label.

 

[rockwell88]

Yes I am from Serbia!
Domino and Habana shaving cream you can only find in North Macedonia where they are produced, and maybe in Kosovo.
In Serbia you can find Palmira shaving soap and cream, Brion splash and shaving cream, Eliot shaving cream and splashes, Tobacco splashes, and some others less known ones as Millenium.
They are all made in Serbia and in spite of being cheap they are all very good products, especially Palmira soap and Brion who have cult status here as they are one of the oldest brands here.
MEM products were used to be made in Serbia but now they are just rebranded Chinese products - they were pretty decent but now they are terrible, with bad QC.
Palmira soap is actually what is Tcheon Fung Sing or Vitos soap in Italy - cheap, frugal products which gets the job done pretty decent.
Aside from that we have two excellent artisan soaps - Dendi and Vreto which are in my opinion as good or better than any artisan from the USA.

an old post, I know. but I wanted to agree with your statement about Serbian Palmira shaving soap. its great stuff. tallow base with no scent. it lathers as well or better then other soaps that I have tried.

 

[mladenius]

an old post, I know. but I wanted to agree with your statement about Serbian Palmira shaving soap. its great stuff. tallow base with no scent. it lathers as well or better then other soaps that I have tried.

Great soap although cheap. Very nice and quite greasy leather which provides nice slickness. There is a pronounced scent of bitter almond (one of the ingredients is benzaldehyde which is a component of almond oil).

 

[rockwell88]

Great soap although cheap. Very nice and quite greasy leather which provides nice slickness. There is a pronounced scent of bitter almond (one of the ingredients is benzaldehyde which is a component of almond oil).

I really like that soap and would like to have a supply. do you know of anywhere that palmira can be purchased online ? I did find it on ebay, but is is priced at $15 (13 euros) each.

 

[horizon]

A good lather is a combination of many conditions, a good base being one of them, but not the only one. Correct technique, proper hydration and a nice brush are other very important requirements. I believe that with proper technique and a nice brush, good lather can be made, even from cheap soap with a mediocre base. I also believe that the best soap can be ruined by bad technique and brush.

 

[Relitaliano]

This struck up a bit of curiosity in me and I had to look up what this "Fullers earth" is.

"What Is Fuller’s Earth?
Fuller’s Earth, also known as Solum Fullonum, is a natural clay material that has been widely used in the cosmetic industry for its numerous beneficial properties. It is a non-plastic variety of Kaolin containing an aluminum-magnesium silicate. Its official CosIng functions include absorbent, anticaking, bulking, gel-forming, opacifying, and viscosity controlling." - Fuller's Earth: What Is It, Cosmetic Benefits & Side Effects – glooshi. - https://www.glooshi.com/fullers-earth/

It looks like it is very similar to Kaolin clay and this explains why it adds additional slickness. I personally add a bit of bentonite clay to my shave soap for the same reason. Clay does increase slickness and gives the soap a bit of slip. Some wet shaver believe that clays in shave soap will dull blades quicker, but I have not found that personally.

However, you do have to be careful of how much clay you add to a soap because clay by nature can draw moisture from the skin. Now it does also help the skin by removing impurities as well so it does have some benefits as well. Think of the clay masks that the ladies do on their face. It removes impurities from your pores.

What would be the best way to add powdered Bentonite clay to your shave soap/lather in a bowl?

 

[blethenstrom]

What would be the best way to add powdered Bentonite clay to your shave soap/lather in a bowl?

Usually it is added to the fats and oils before saponification.

 

[Relitaliano]

Usually it is added to the fats and oils before saponification.

How can I add it to bowl lather before shaving? How Can bentonite clay or exfoliating scrubs help with ingrown hairs before shaving? Any suggestions are appreciated

 

[blethenstrom]

How can I add it to bowl lather before shaving? How Can bentonite clay or exfoliating scrubs help with ingrown hairs before shaving? Any suggestions are appreciated

I cannot help you there. Bentonite clay helps with a bit of slickness. Although there are some dispute regarding this as well. It is not exfoliating.