Shapton 30K . . . anybody use it?

[mparker762]

If you have not used a 30K, 0.25 paste, then 0.1 micron film progression then there is no way that one can tell you how smooth the shave is.

+1. I didn't use the 0.1 film, but I followed the 30k with 0.1 diamond on hardwood for a similar effect. The resulting edge would be unbelievable if the Feather Super Pro didn't already exist. Water and lather become optional for the shave.

I don't use this honing regimen anymore, since I have the same problem with those edges that I had with the Feather AC. But I can attest to the really remarkable sharpness achievable with that setup.

Something that I have learned recently when I started using Japanese Naturals is that I will, from that day forward, be careful what I hold as "truth" about honing. There is just to much to learn! I am coming off a J-Nat in which the razor requires absolutely no stropping for a buttery smooth shave, something I never thought I would say.

I've noticed that about the nakayamas as well, which I guess makes it less surprising that historically the Japanese didn't strop their razors, they just honed them whenever they began getting dull. But I should also mention that when coming off my 0.1 micron hardwood paddle that the razor didn't need stropping either, it delivered the same shave stropped or unstropped off that paddle.

 

[Seraphim]

Here's a thread I did about the results I got when finishing out to 0.1um, or finishing with a pasted strop.

For me (YMMV), the result of too fine a finishing hone seemed to result in a fragile edge, as can be seen.

 

[TstebinsB]

All of this really is just a personal preference issue. We in this forum have very different objectives and goals, for me it is just about the shave. That is is it! But that may be the worst disorder of them all! If you have not used a 30K, 0.25 paste, then 0.1 micron film progression then there is no way that one can tell you how smooth the shave is. The edge is extremely keen and polished but it is not for everyone, there are distinct disadvantages to keen highly polished edges along with the advantages.

I have sold a couple of razors and always ask if they would like to try such an edge and if accepted, to a man, there is a reply that it was indeed an excellent edge. Sorry I just do not agree that such treatment gives a HCS razor a delicate edge or one that is harsh after 100 laps on the leather. My Robert Williams and LeGrelot razors love it and I get that "first shave" keenness for over a dozen shaves with these razors. I will agree that Sheffield razor are not suited to this type of edge because the steel, although very excellent steel, just does not have the same physical properties with steel that has been tempered to something with a 62+ HRC rating. Shaving with them is just a different experience.

Something that I have learned recently when I started using Japanese Naturals is that I will, from that day forward, be careful what I hold as "truth" about honing. There is just to much to learn! I am coming off a J-Nat in which the razor requires absolutely no stropping for a buttery smooth shave, something I never thought I would say.

I would be very open to sharing a 30K, 0.1film edge with someone if they were so inclined.

Take Care,
Richard

It's not the 30K that makes the shave so smooth. It's what you have been using after it.

Compare these shaves on the same razor:
Edge 1: directly off the 30K
Edge 2: skip the 30K, and go 0.5 paste/film, 0.25 paste/film, and 0.1 film/paste

Use the razor with Edge 1 until it gets dull. Then use the razor with Edge 2 until it gets dull. I bet Edge 2 is smoother and lasts more shaves.

 

[riooso]

It's not the 30K that makes the shave so smooth. It's what you have been using after it.

Compare these shaves on the same razor:
Edge 1: directly off the 30K
Edge 2: skip the 30K, and go 0.5 paste/film, 0.25 paste/film, and 0.1 film/paste

Use the razor with Edge 1 until it gets dull. Then use the razor with Edge 2 until it gets dull. I bet Edge 2 is smoother and lasts more shaves.

I agree with you completely. When I got my 30K, films were relatively new to most people including myself. There is something to be said about using a "honing" motion verses a "stropping" motion and I have noticed a gain between times that I needed a touch-up.

Considering your point of using films to substitute the 30K. Films are very good but I found that the very fine films lasted about 7 or 8 sessions and was something that I had to constantly monitor. Quality films tend to be expensive and dealing with the punks at the companies that sell them was a pain. You would have thought that I was buying nuclear waste for goodness sakes. The 30K was consistent and ready to rock! as it were.

Back to the original post. I think it is good to air all this but the bottom line is that if one is going to use Chromium then why bother with the 30K? There isn't. Chromium just did not work for me. There are people on this forum who have beards that are pretty easy to shave. I have a beard, and particular a couple of spots on my face, that literally chews up steel. It use to hurt to shave. Dammit, I hated shaving! A quality DE blade lasts me 2, count them, 2 shaves! My prep starts the night before with skin conditioning, 15 minutes in the morning 106 degree spa, shower, and finally a microwaved towel for a 5 minute soak, and still problems! So that is why I was always chasing, maybe incorrectly, the ultimate keen, polished edge.

So if Coticule edges followed by Chromium works for you that really is great! If I had not found Japanese Naturals I would still be using the 30K progression even with all its problems and, as stated earlier, there are problems with it.

Sorry to be so long winded. After all it is really only shaving, Ya Know!

Take Care guys, dang I love this place,
Richard