I'm quite late to this thread. Like yesterday, usually on another forum. I use Nacet, but have heard reports from some they say recent blades haven't been as good. Your findings does rather support variations my blades seem to be from Feb 20, but feel good. I was lucky I didn't end up with a dud batch.
Blade Sharpness Research Project
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I'm currently using one from a 10-tuck and it's probably the dullest blade I've ever tried. The 5-tuck blades look identical and I suspect the differences are down to batch variation. A Chinese vendor informed a member here that Jifuli are same blade. One can only wonder then at a solitary outlier on another forum whose recent post praises Iguetta and claims 56 shaves and counting!
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- #1,003
They certainly all come from the same production line. They certainly are not the same. I agree same specification and poor process control is probably the correct explanation.
I was just perusing the big 'ol graph of everything and I have to say that there is something that sticks out for me.
Permasharp RU seems a fair bit lower down the list than my face says it should be. Does anyone else agree with that? For what it's worth, the ones I am currently using are from 2021 but I recall having some from 2019 (I think) where I sometimes felt they weren't as consistent.
Also, fascinating to see how BIC Chrome Platinum is so durable there is basically no difference from the first round of testing. I think I'm going to get myself some of them.
Permasharp RU seems a fair bit lower down the list than my face says it should be. Does anyone else agree with that? For what it's worth, the ones I am currently using are from 2021 but I recall having some from 2019 (I think) where I sometimes felt they weren't as consistent.
Also, fascinating to see how BIC Chrome Platinum is so durable there is basically no difference from the first round of testing. I think I'm going to get myself some of them.
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- #1,005
Perma-Sharp is designed to have a tough, durable, and consistent edge. It is finely honed for smoothness. It is fairly sharp, but that is not the distinguishing part of the design.
Keep in mind the chart shows averages of various points along the edges. A sharper fragile edge, like that 2018 Nacet Stainless I tested, with some natural wear is going to be duller in the middle, and it may have some tuggy spots where it isn't very sharp at all, while remaining sharper on average. As a result, the practical sharpness of Perma-Sharp may be more than the chart ranking indicates.
That Bic Chrome platinum I tested was excellent, and a blade from the lsame lot shaved nicely. I will be good to test more of them eventually, because they have a reputation for some batch inconsistency. I would like to observe and report on that if it is real.
That makes sense. I could well be conflating sharpness and smoothness with the Permasharp.
I used my first one this past week from a tuck I had kicking around for a couple of years. I was really impressed. I took it to three comfortable shaves and could probably have done a fourth - since I am often one-and-done, that speaks to me of something with exceptional durability, which your testing has proved.
But I just ordered 200, so I hope the batch inconsistency doesn't turn out to be an issue!
I used my first one this past week from a tuck I had kicking around for a couple of years. I was really impressed. I took it to three comfortable shaves and could probably have done a fourth - since I am often one-and-done, that speaks to me of something with exceptional durability, which your testing has proved.
But I just ordered 200, so I hope the batch inconsistency doesn't turn out to be an issue!
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- #1,007
I ordered a couple hundred too and mine are fine.
It's real!
I have lots that are all perfect every time and some that have duds every few blades.
Weird but true!
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- #1,009
I don't mean you are conflating them, rather that the average is an imperfect representation. If average sharpness is the same, the dullest points on the smooth blade will be sharper than the dullest points on the coarse or worn blade. It is the dull spots that tug, not the sharp spots, not the median spots, not the average.
Average Has the advantages of being accessible and having greater precision and accuracy than something else, like median or maximum, but it is not a complete or perfect characterization.
If you look though the testing results there are microscope photos that can shed some light. The BIC blades have a triple bevel and good steel, so the edge wears more slowly than most.
Perma-Sharp blades seem to last longer than average, also.
Nacet Stainless and Perma-Sharp Stainless both perform better for me than the measurements would suggest. Probably the smoothness @helicopter mentioned, but could be something I don’t know how to articulate that’s skewing my perceptions.
Just a random Sunday bump here ...
If you wondered, as I did: how do they put platinum on all these blades (and, not be way upside-down on costs, as BOTEC here).
Oh, looks maybe affordable then.
Great: but how do you do that – put weensy amounts of metallic platinum on thousands of the sharp little things?
Oh, pftt, easy. You get one of (or, a roomful of) something like the DCMS30 system. And Bob's your uncle.
Pert 'near neat, as we used to say back my way.
/Acey
* – Now, calculating costs: how much, then is one of these? (and so it goes, eh?)
If you wondered, as I did: how do they put platinum on all these blades (and, not be way upside-down on costs, as BOTEC here).
Oh, looks maybe affordable then.
Great: but how do you do that – put weensy amounts of metallic platinum on thousands of the sharp little things?
Oh, pftt, easy. You get one of (or, a roomful of) something like the DCMS30 system. And Bob's your uncle.
Pert 'near neat, as we used to say back my way.
/Acey
* – Now, calculating costs: how much, then is one of these? (and so it goes, eh?)
Chandu
I Waxed The Badger.
I recently tried a tuck of these. Not nearly sharp enough. Very tuggy. Did two strokes and said "nope". Changed blades mid shave which is a rare for me.
I don't care what these cost, for me, they are not worth the money.
As an aside, I've come to learn that when blades are advertised and the leading point is XXX country steel. Sweedish, German, whatever. If that leads as the selling point, they are almost universally crap blades.
I think it really means... "we can't properly grind steel to make a DE blade if our lives depended on it, but at least we start with good stock, so buy 'em".
Poor steel properly ground would be good for at least one good shave. Great steel, improperly ground is never worth the price.
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- #1,014
Swedish Steel is a proper blade steel, but that is really it. American, true Japanese, and Russian steels have all performed better and Chinese and probably Indian made Japanese alloys have been as good.
Swedish Steel basically just means they used a steel that has the potential to hold an edge reasonably well. Sweden has an advamtage here because their ore deposits make it much cheaper for them to produce, and they are exporting good blade steel, not ore. Manufacturers still have to heat treat it, grind it, coat it, and protect the edge until it reaches the end user.
'Swedish Steel' sometimes probably means "we scanned Sandvik Steel and copied the main metal proportions in China" like we see with virtually all "Japanese" Steel. Even in those cases, it does mean they used a proper alloy, but we have to take their word for it.
For a Asian producers, I find an alloy designation such as "6Cr14" much more compelling. Sometimes we get "Sandvik," too, and that tells us where it came from. Again, we have to take their word for it.
They make great steel in China anyway, so it really only matters that they bought the right one. And yes, that is a pretty low bar. A big part of it is just an Asian cultural approach to exotic and rare things, universal at its root, but manifested differently than in the West.
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- #1,015
This is the Zaza Lord Chromium Coated Super Stainless Turkish Patent blade, which is a private label blade from the Turkish company that owns the Turkish trademark for Lord blades, not to be confused with Sotraco's much more popular and widely distributed Egyptian Lord blades. There is some Arabic writing on there package.
In the third photo, you see that open flap of the tuck, which is uncommon, but not rare. I think this could be especially useful to determine the origin of the blade with some sleuthing. The blade wrapper refers to a nice upstairs apartment with a "Zaza" sign on the door. I suspect it is produced on the Indian subcontinent, but that is a hunch. I am not ruling out China, either. The shrink wrap is sealed on the side, so it wasn't packaged on the same machinery as the Zaza Gold blade, and it also seems to be unrelated to the Zaza platinum.
It is a thick grind with crude abrasives and a distal metallic coating. After the test, second picture, we see that the edge is in excellent condition. It is good steel, but data points to some weak spots along the edges where there is some local failure.
It is a little bizarre these two photos of the same (bottom) edge have such different total grind height. You can see from the scale grid in the background that this is the grind and not the images. I may have flipped the blade, so we are looking at the front and back of the same unintentionally asymmetric grind.
It is pretty clear that none of the Zaza blades are made by Derby or to the same specification. I actually think performance of the coating is platinum driven, and that the marketing material indicates chromium to differentiate it from their other products.
It is pretty mild, with typical durability and good initial consistency. I am not very excited about the grind, though. Even if you like mild blades, there are lots of better options.
Blade Sharpness Test Index
In the third photo, you see that open flap of the tuck, which is uncommon, but not rare. I think this could be especially useful to determine the origin of the blade with some sleuthing. The blade wrapper refers to a nice upstairs apartment with a "Zaza" sign on the door. I suspect it is produced on the Indian subcontinent, but that is a hunch. I am not ruling out China, either. The shrink wrap is sealed on the side, so it wasn't packaged on the same machinery as the Zaza Gold blade, and it also seems to be unrelated to the Zaza platinum.
It is a thick grind with crude abrasives and a distal metallic coating. After the test, second picture, we see that the edge is in excellent condition. It is good steel, but data points to some weak spots along the edges where there is some local failure.
It is a little bizarre these two photos of the same (bottom) edge have such different total grind height. You can see from the scale grid in the background that this is the grind and not the images. I may have flipped the blade, so we are looking at the front and back of the same unintentionally asymmetric grind.
It is pretty clear that none of the Zaza blades are made by Derby or to the same specification. I actually think performance of the coating is platinum driven, and that the marketing material indicates chromium to differentiate it from their other products.
| Date | 18-Nov-2024 | Blade Thickness, mm | 0.090 | ||
| Blade | Zaza | Lord | Super Chromium | Türkiye | 1-Jan-2024 |
| Wear on Edge | 0 | 3 | 6 | 9 | 12 |
| Edges Measured | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top |
| Measurement Medium | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 |
| Dulling Substrate | New | Paper | Paper | Paper | Paper |
| Measurements | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 |
| Adj. Std. Dev. | 9 | 7 | 12 | 26 | 18 |
| Median F (g) | 65.5 | 64 | 66 | 66 | 69.5 |
| Mean F (g) Top | 62 | 62 | 71 | 64 | 74 |
| Mean F (g) Bottom | 72 | 65 | 66 | 73 | 78 |
| Mean F (g) | 67 | 64 | 68 | 69 | 76 |
| BESS Adj. Factor | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 |
| Avg. Adj. F (g) Top | 75 | 76 | 86 | 78 | 90 |
| Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom | 87 | 79 | 80 | 90 | 95 |
| Median Adj. F (g) | 80 | 77 | 81 | 81 | 85 |
| Mean Adj. F (g) | 81 | 77 | 83 | 84 | 92 |
It is pretty mild, with typical durability and good initial consistency. I am not very excited about the grind, though. Even if you like mild blades, there are lots of better options.
Blade Sharpness Test Index
Maybe I must be misremembering.
In your previous comments and considerations of Zaza blades had you not written the opposite? i.e. Zaza blades are made by Derby or to the same specification?!
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- #1,017
This is the Super-Max New Rise Classic Super Sharp Stainless blade, which is made in Bangladesh, presumably by Samah as a private label product for the UK and Indian Super-Max, which closed its manufacturing down. Google Maps still indicates a Super-Max office at the Tigaksha plant in India's Western Himalayan foothills, but I put more stake in what is written on a package than I do on Google Maps. For now, I will continue to assume that RK and Vidyut blades are made at Tigaksha, and that possibly Super-Max blades were made there for a time as well. It also seems like reasonable possibility that this Samah blade came between the Super-Max made Super-Max and a Tigaksha Super-Max. Too bad this one doesn't have a date code.
It looks like a Samah blade, with big and uneven scratches near the apex. It remained in good condition after testing, second picture.
It is mild-moderate with good durability and consistency. Performance doesn't closely resemble any of the Durablade-branded Bengali blades.
Blade Sharpness Test Index
It looks like a Samah blade, with big and uneven scratches near the apex. It remained in good condition after testing, second picture.
It is mild-moderate with good durability and consistency. Performance doesn't closely resemble any of the Durablade-branded Bengali blades.
| Date | 18-Nov-2024 | Blade Thickness, mm | 0.090 | ||
| Blade | Super-Max | New Rise Classic | Super Sharp Stainless | Bangladesh | 1-Jan-2024 |
| Wear on Edge | 0 | 3 | 6 | 9 | 12 |
| Edges Measured | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top | Bottom / Top |
| Measurement Medium | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 | Stren 6 .22 |
| Dulling Substrate | New | Paper | Paper | Paper | Paper |
| Measurements | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 |
| Adj. Std. Dev. | 5 | 6 | 8 | 10 | 19 |
| Median F (g) | 59 | 53 | 58.5 | 62.5 | 59.5 |
| Mean F (g) Top | 61 | 57 | 64 | 66 | 64 |
| Mean F (g) Bottom | 56 | 51 | 53 | 52 | 62 |
| Mean F (g) | 59 | 54 | 59 | 59 | 63 |
| BESS Adj. Factor | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 | 1.22 |
| Avg. Adj. F (g) Top | 75 | 70 | 78 | 80 | 77 |
| Avg. Adj. F (g) Bottom | 69 | 62 | 65 | 63 | 75 |
| Median Adj. F (g) | 72 | 65 | 71 | 76 | 73 |
| Mean Adj. F (g) | 72 | 66 | 71 | 71 | 76 |
Blade Sharpness Test Index
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- #1,018
I believe that Derby is the only current manufacturer of disposable razor blades in Turkey. Zaza is also a Turkish brand, and some online resources originally led me to assume Zaza was manufactured in Turkey, which would make it a Derby blade. As a result, I was trying to align the Zaza Platinum with Derby specifications when I first tested it.
I no longer believe that any of the Zaza blades are currently made in Turkey, and I am not drawing conclusions about where they are manufactured. I have some ideas, but I don't think they are Derbys. I don't think any of the three Zaza blades I have tested were made by Derby after the Derby factory was updated, and I don't think the Zaza Platinum or The Zaza Lord are made in Turkey. The Zaza gold might be an old stock Turkish blade, either of Zaza or Derby production, and if it isn't old stock, then I think it is made somewhere else. The Zaza Platinum looks like a Nazareth blade to me, but it could be something else, too. Perma-Sharp has historic ties to Zaza and Israel, so I am going to test some vintage Perma-Sharps and see if they shed any light on this.
Zaza Gold blades are no longer produced is an inference for something that leads you to think this?
In your assessment and opinion after testing it, could The Zaza Lord blade also be made in Israel?
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