Sorry about the confusing title. I have Naniwa Super stones 1,3,5,8,10,12 and a Ozuku Asagi. I currently use every Naniwa stone and do around 25-30 laps per stone. I am wondering if maybe I am over-honing my edge since it is nice for the first and maybe the second shave and then the shaves begin to degrade in quality from there. Wid mentioned before all those stones aren't necessary. I am wondering what method works best if I am going to finish on my JNAT. I have been considering just doing 3/8 then JNAT and see how that goes. Can anyone recommend what they do?
Naniwa & Jnat honing methods please?
- Thread starter CyiDev
- Start date
It can happen that you are overdoing things. The 10k and the 12k are both fast finishers, doing 50-60 laps together is way too much. After the 8k, I would do 10-10 on both, test shave, and then 10-20 on the asagi, and go up from there until your edge maxes.
I would say 25-30 strokes are not nearly enough on the lower superstone grits, and I would even argue that 25-30 wasn't enough on the higher grits as well.
If your bevel is set, try doing 50-75 on the lower grits (more is actually better, IMO since the supers are not that aggressive in general). On the 5K and 8K, 50-75 is still good IMO since you begin to polish more - especially the 8K. On the 10K and 12K, I will generally do about 50-60, if not more.
If you're concerned that all those strokes will lead to massive overhoning, you can read my take on it here.
If your edge is still not holding up, then you may want to look into adding a piece of tape to reinforce the geometry - but I don't think that is the issue presently.
If your bevel is set, try doing 50-75 on the lower grits (more is actually better, IMO since the supers are not that aggressive in general). On the 5K and 8K, 50-75 is still good IMO since you begin to polish more - especially the 8K. On the 10K and 12K, I will generally do about 50-60, if not more.
If you're concerned that all those strokes will lead to massive overhoning, you can read my take on it here.
If your edge is still not holding up, then you may want to look into adding a piece of tape to reinforce the geometry - but I don't think that is the issue presently.
Believe it or not stropping has a big influence on edge retention as well as shaving style. If you can take a look at your edge under magnification you might see what the deal is...a blade with chips in them might need more time on the stones getting out all the deep scratches, a blade without chips might just need more stropping. IMO proper stroppong technique takes some time to master too...as recently proved to me with stroppong my Kamisori and having trouble...
Both Jeness and Jende know their way around a set of hones, so try out both suggestions, or flip a coin
.
Both Jeness and Jende know their way around a set of hones, so try out both suggestions, or flip a coin
.
Different people, different findings
What works with someones honing routine, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Maybe I am heavy handed, but I never did more than 30-40 laps on the 12k.- Thread starter
- #7
I have two razors so I can try both methods So whats the take on specifically what stones to try it on? 1k, 3k,8k,12k, then JNAT? Or should I use all Naniwas. I guess this question is more aimed at the 50-60 laps since 10 laps on a full naniwa set kind of makes sense to me since each stone is about 2x as smooth as the previous one. Finally whats the opinion on JNAT?
So whats the take on specifically what stones to try it on? 1k, 3k,8k,12k, then JNAT? Or should I use all Naniwas. I guess this question is more aimed at the 50-60 laps since 10 laps on a full naniwa set kind of makes sense to me since each stone is about 2x as smooth as the previous one. Finally whats the opinion on JNAT?
I would eliminate the 5 and 10K stone. When I had the Naniwas 12K 50 to 60 laps was not unheard of on some blades, more than that on some too. I see no reason you can't go to the Jnat after the 12K. I would make sure it is shave ready off the Naniwa first though.
+1
also;
Having owned, and used, that exact stone set - plus the 2k as well;
The only redundancy I see in that Naniwa lineup is the 10k.. I never found a difference when going 8k - 10k - 12k or 8k - 12k.
Doesn't mean there wasn't one - I just didn't experience it. My feeling was that the 10k and 12k finished so similarly that there was no need. But - different strokes..
Also - the 5k makes a nice place to land after 3k... in fact - finishing on 5k and going to the Jnat would be a nice move if you have a nice Tenjou or Mejiro Nagura.
The 10k and the 12k are both fast finishers, doing 50-60 laps together is way too much.
On the 10K and 12K, I will generally do about 50-60, if not more.
Technique plays a huge role here. I base my numbers on what I see under the scope when I hone. Everyone has a slightly different touch, which is what makes this so subjective.
My belief is that you cannot possibly make the edge too thin up to the 5K level, unless it's a geometry related issue. Setting up the bevel on the lower grits is the most important step, and if you want to reduce the number of strokes after the 5K stone, that is all part if the experimentation and personalization. In particular with the Super stones, the more strokes you use, the more polish you get, which is what adds to a smoother shave.
- Thread starter
- #13
I redid my razors today using Wid's recommendations of 1,3,8,12k then JNAT. I also used what he said I should be looking for. 1k = shaves arm hair. 3k = shaves arm hair no pressure used. 8k = shaveable (used my hair on my hand to determine). 12k = mirror finish. JNAT I did his method and than varied on it for the other razor to being only 100 x strokes. The one using his JNAT method shaved pretty good. I nicked myself on my mustache area but did notice the blade was shaving better than before with less work. I have decided to sell my Naniwa's (there in the BST forum) and enter the coticule world. That way I can concentrate on one specific stone at a time.
This was basically the major breakthrough for me when I was learning to hone that led to consistency in my results. I definitely agree with this. When I first started honing, I honestly don't think I was even paying attention to what was happening with the water on the surface.
Jeness and jende... I wasn't trying to give you guys a hard time, above... I just thought it was funny that there were back-to-back, polar opposite advice posts. I know you guys both definitely know what you are talking about.
No worries! That's the fun and irony in all of this 
I know I strive for perfection and often carry a few too many decimal points on my Pi calculations. But at the same time, I have grown so accustomed to certain types of edges - as has everyone else.
The best thing to do is to try everything, and leave no stone (pardon the pun) unturned in finding what works for you. This way you can own it, and know why certain things work or don't work for you. Throwing away all the supers for a coticule is not necessarily the OP's best move, IMO. Adding a coticule to the existing mix is a better choice, however.
I know my personal journey to date has been a roller coaster ride from unlocking the secrets of pyramid honing and prgressive honing, to tackling overhoning (and underhoning) to taking on Murray Carter's method! I've learned the whole way, and the more you learn, the more you need to learn!
:bigggrin:
I know I strive for perfection and often carry a few too many decimal points on my Pi calculations. But at the same time, I have grown so accustomed to certain types of edges - as has everyone else.
The best thing to do is to try everything, and leave no stone (pardon the pun) unturned in finding what works for you. This way you can own it, and know why certain things work or don't work for you. Throwing away all the supers for a coticule is not necessarily the OP's best move, IMO. Adding a coticule to the existing mix is a better choice, however.
I know my personal journey to date has been a roller coaster ride from unlocking the secrets of pyramid honing and prgressive honing, to tackling overhoning (and underhoning) to taking on Murray Carter's method! I've learned the whole way, and the more you learn, the more you need to learn!
:bigggrin:
What do you mean "undercut the water on the stone".
When you start on a stone, you'll see the razor edge push the water in front of it, eventually some water going under the edge. When it undercuts you'll see the water flows over the edge and into the blade, and it should do that all along the edge.
Ah, I see. Very helpful. Thank you danjared and Blix. So The blade should undercut on each stone before I progress?
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