Muhle thread size

cooncatbob · Jun 8, 2009

There's been a question that Gillette and Merkur handle won't fir Muhle heads.
I sent them an e-mail but received a rather useless answer.

Dear Mr. Smith,

do you mean the thread that's holding the razor head ? It is different with every model, not standard.

best regards,

Christian Mueller

The mystery continues, any Muhle owner willing to try a variety of different nut on their razor's head?
My guess is that if it's metric it must be either a fine thread M4.5x.5, M5x.5 or a course thread M4.5x.75, M5x.8
There's not really any other choices.

I wonder why Muhle felt the need to deviate from what has been the world standard for over 100 years, I was rather shocked when I saw that Merkur a German company was using the same #10-32 thread pitch as Gillette and not metric.

Luc · Jun 8, 2009

Typical... They won't let anything out...

cooncatbob · Jun 8, 2009

Luc said:
Typical... They won't let anything out...

Got a conformation over in the thread in B/S/T
Said it's a M5 metric but didn't say if it the coarse thread .8 or the fine thread .5.
I'm guessing it the M5X.8 coarse as that the metric equivalent to a #10-32.

Stubblefield · Jun 8, 2009

This would explain why my EJ handle would not fit my New head.

Good detective work there.

rodd · Jun 8, 2009

wow, I hadn't noticed that. I never tried swapping the head.

cooncatbob · Jun 8, 2009

Stubblefield said:
This would explain why my EJ handle would not fit my New head.

Good detective work there.

It's funny the Europeans have been using the Gillette standard #10-32 threads for over a 100 years and now Muhle using metric.

Stubblefield · Jun 8, 2009

cooncatbob said:
It's funny the Europeans have been using the Gillette standard #10-32 threads for over a 100 years and now Muhle using metric.

I would laugh if it were the result of some EEC directive, like the one that restricted tallow used in shaving soaps to food grade or better.

lsbrodsky · Jun 9, 2009

Bob, I tried both an M5 and a 10-32 nut on my EJ/MP head and they started to thread but would not go on fully; the stud is oversized I think because of the plating. A 10-32 screw threaded fine into the handle but it wiggled a bit, which I guess may mean that it was indeed tapped oversized.
Larry

cooncatbob · Jun 9, 2009

lsbrodsky said:
Bob, I tried both an M5 and a 10-32 nut on my EJ/MP head and they started to thread but would not go on fully; the stud is oversized I think because of the plating. A 10-32 screw threaded fine into the handle but it wiggled a bit, which I guess may mean that it was indeed tapped oversized.
Larry

There's a fine M5x.5 and a coarse M5x.8.
Also Muhle said they've used different thread.

lsbrodsky · Jun 9, 2009

I tried the M5 coarse and it was the right thread for handle, but a little loose. It must be equivalent to the 10-32 as they fit the same. Nevertheless, the handle was a bit loose and the head stud was too tight. So I still think that you are right about the plating and an oversized tap.
Larry

cooncatbob · Jun 9, 2009

lsbrodsky said:
I tried the M5 coarse and it was the right thread for handle, but a little loose. It must be equivalent to the 10-32 as they fit the same. Nevertheless, the handle was a bit loose and the head stud was too tight. So I still think that you are right about the plating and an oversized tap.
Larry

Your probably correct, I've had problems with my knobs not fitting vintage Progresses and I've had to run a die down the cap stud to cut off the excess plating.
I run a oversized die (H7) down all the new knobs now but sometimes it's still not enough.

talibeard · Jun 15, 2009

A rather late reply but I was wondering why the old and new Mühle parts were not interchangeable and trying some tools on them made clear that the old Mühle has non-metric (probably 10/32) and the new ones have M5x0.8 metric thread. Checking further I noticed that my Merkurs (2- and 3-piece) also have this M5x0.8 but tolerated so that they more or less fit the 10/32 also. Fit on a metric nut however is far better. Hope it helps.

Luc · Jun 15, 2009

talibeard said:
A rather late reply but I was wondering why the old and new Mühle parts were not interchangeable and trying some tools on them made clear that the old Mühle has non-metric (probably 10/32) and the new ones have M5x0.8 metric thread. Checking further I noticed that my Merkurs (2- and 3-piece) also have this M5x0.8 but tolerated so that they more or less fit the 10/32 also. Fit on a metric nut however is far better. Hope it helps.

One of the head is made by Muhle and the other head is made by Merkur with a Muhle handle.

Etoyoc_Rebmos · Jun 15, 2009

Its not just the newer Muhle heads. My older R89 isn't 10-32 either. I was actually quite disappointed by that discovery, as I was hoping to use the Muhle handle on the other heads.

talibeard · Jun 16, 2009

Etoyoc_Rebmos said:
Its not just the newer Muhle heads. My older R89 isn't 10-32 either. I was actually quite disappointed by that discovery, as I was hoping to use the Muhle handle on the other heads.

You are right and I wasn't thinking properly. 10/32 would have to be around 8mm and the old R-89 is only 4.3 mm so either M4.5 or something else non-metric.

shyrlock · Jun 16, 2009

The thread on my 2009 E.Jagger with Muhle head are M5-.8

mbrossar · Jun 18, 2009

Okay, so if you want to make this more confusing, I just came from Bob's shop with a brand new Bull Mastiff handle (which I can't wait to shave with BTW, its beautiful!). I've got a 2009 Mühle R89 that I've had for less than a month. The threads didn't initially fit, but by comparison, they looked like 10-32. Bob kindly ran a die on it to shave off the excess plating and voila, it fits like a dream. So, my vote, it actually is a 10-32, but they've let the plating get on the threads so it comes across differently.

As for the comments about different threads on different razors, I don't buy it. That would create such a mess matching up heads to handle. There's no argument you could give me that would make business sense to allow this to happen. My opinion, there is a little more or a little less plating that has made its way onto a standard 10-32 thread.

cooncatbob · Jun 18, 2009

mbrossar said:
Okay, so if you want to make this more confusing, I just came from Bob's shop with a brand new Bull Mastiff handle (which I can't wait to shave with BTW, its beautiful!). I've got a 2009 Mühle R89 that I've had for less than a month. The threads didn't initially fit, but by comparison, they looked like 10-32. Bob kindly ran a die on it to shave off the excess plating and voila, it fits like a dream. So, my vote, it actually is a 10-32, but they've let the plating get on the threads so it comes across differently.

As for the comments about different threads on different razors, I don't buy it. That would create such a mess matching up heads to handle. There's no argument you could give me that would make business sense to allow this to happen. My opinion, there is a little more or a little less plating that has made its way onto a standard 10-32 thread.

I've Had this problem quite often with my Progress knobs, especially on the older razors..
A standard tap has a thread limit of "H3" and I have been using a "H7" tap this has alleviated the problem but not totally cured it.
I looked up "hand taps" at my online tool supplier and saw that there's a separate section for "over sized taps" the #10-32 tap in this section has a thread limit of "H11" and is especially made for parts that are to be plated.
I've ordered one of these taps and will use it on my XL Progress knobs.

mbrossar · Jun 18, 2009

So, what's the difference? Is the H11 cutting deeper (and possibly wider) gooves in anticipation of a little plate on the threads? Not that I'm looking to pony up on my taps & dies, just curious.

cooncatbob · Jun 18, 2009

mbrossar said:
So, what's the difference? Is the H11 cutting deeper (and possibly wider) gooves in anticipation of a little plate on the threads? Not that I'm looking to pony up on my taps & dies, just curious.

Deeper yes, wider?
I'm not a machinist, but the thread pitch (threads per inch) must be kept the same.
Anybody who buys used 3 piece razor would be well served with a #10-32 tap and hex die.
I use mine all the time to clean up buggered up threads on both the handle and the head stud.
I buy most of my stuff here.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRHM

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Muhle thread size

cooncatbob

Luc

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Stubblefield

rodd

cooncatbob

Stubblefield

lsbrodsky

cooncatbob

lsbrodsky

cooncatbob

talibeard

Luc

"To Wiki or Not To Wiki, That's The Question".

Etoyoc_Rebmos

talibeard

shyrlock

mbrossar

cooncatbob

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cooncatbob

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