I never, ever, ever HHT without stropping first. An unstropped blade could be honed to 0.001 microns and it would still push my hair away like a booth girl pushes away a comiccon attendee. Try stropping and then executing your tests again. The only way unstropped blades seem to pass is by catching and popping, which is an almost useless measure. You can do that off a 300 grit stone.
Hey bro, youre doing it wrong.
- Thread starter TreadwayJohnA
- Start date
Coticule edges must be stropped and get keener after that.
Third page in, so anything I may add has probably been said. If you have 1k/6k combo synth and a coticule, I'd try to get the best edge off the 1k/6k first. Clean blade after the 6k and move straight to leather stropping. Try to get the best edge you can off this. Once this has been done, introduce the coticule. Just water since the 6k has done the grunt work, no slurry with the coticule. Again, move to the leather off the stone. See if this helps. If not, try some lather on the coticle for two dozen strokes or so, followed by leather. If this improves things, then you may be applying too much pressure at the end with the coticule in general (i.e., with water). Also nice to put in a little pigtail stroke on the coticule, rather than just straight X's.
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
I've found the same (as the three posts above) myself after many years of coticule use. Never used a coticule on a Gold Dollar but have used it on hard Swedish steel.
John,
think you should find out from which vein your stone is, should be not that hard.
I´am pretty shure it´s not fine enough to shave of straight.
If the edge is not refined enough it will not feel comfortable, stroping with linen or anything else will do very little to nothing.
As I posted earlier, you need a chromium oxide strop, if the stone is ok you will have great shaves without no burn or irritation.
I was searching for a finisher like 7 years now, and just found one by eccident.
I have two of the same strop, they were not cheap, but they will last for ever. One I treated with cromium, just once. It turned from green to dark gray over the years. I always test shave without cromium stropping, but it did prove uncomfortable every single time.
It feels ok on the cheeks and every werewhere els, the problem for me was always the upper lip, that pulls like crazy.
I do it like this:
After finishing with the finest stone, I will strop on leader and doing the HHT. If it´s good enough I will put a layer tape (not electric, the very thinn transparent) on the spine and strop 20-35 times on cromuim. This will creat a second micro bevel and polishes the very edge of the razor.
If it´s done alright it will give a nice shave for 9 mounth or so, no problem.
And I would put the 1k stone away, you don´t need such coarse stones.
Greetings
ruben
think you should find out from which vein your stone is, should be not that hard.
I´am pretty shure it´s not fine enough to shave of straight.
If the edge is not refined enough it will not feel comfortable, stroping with linen or anything else will do very little to nothing.
As I posted earlier, you need a chromium oxide strop, if the stone is ok you will have great shaves without no burn or irritation.
I was searching for a finisher like 7 years now, and just found one by eccident.
I have two of the same strop, they were not cheap, but they will last for ever. One I treated with cromium, just once. It turned from green to dark gray over the years. I always test shave without cromium stropping, but it did prove uncomfortable every single time.
It feels ok on the cheeks and every werewhere els, the problem for me was always the upper lip, that pulls like crazy.
I do it like this:
After finishing with the finest stone, I will strop on leader and doing the HHT. If it´s good enough I will put a layer tape (not electric, the very thinn transparent) on the spine and strop 20-35 times on cromuim. This will creat a second micro bevel and polishes the very edge of the razor.
If it´s done alright it will give a nice shave for 9 mounth or so, no problem.
And I would put the 1k stone away, you don´t need such coarse stones.
Greetings
ruben
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Yes I am very sympathetic; I have spent time on various old razors, studied edges &c., and then "enjoyed" a third-rate shave.
I have remained true to the Faith and not used a modern multi-blade razor since I started with SRs a couple of months ago, except in desperation to clean up my upper lip.
Fortunately I find it difficult to resist buying old razors and so I am the exact opposite of yourself - in fact I am awaiting the arrival of a Gold Dollar 208 on which to try a bit more grinding! In the space of a mere seven or eight weeks I have bought at least 25 razors, nearly all of them cheap or fairly cheap. Fortunately some of them despite not being advertised as such, are in fact shave ready or very close and require only a lick on my 15k stone (now with Camelia oil which I have found effective) and some stropping to provide a decent shave.
Interesting one or two of these are in fact much better than the some of the "shave ready" ones I have bought!
No razor here of any description would cut a hanging hair however; that I fear is a black art and well beyond my understanding
I hope that you find The Path as indeed I hope to do!
Best wishes
C.
Thank you for your reply.
Certainly it is possible that at the beginning I was using too much pressure. I started by watching the various videos on YouTube - Lynn Abrams, Dr Matt and so on; they make it look far too easy and I am now certain that despite their demonstrations that these are simply not the whole story - can't be. For example you'll see them start on a blade and after about four or five strokes they are getting swarf. They don't even slurry! This does not happen here.
Of course I didn't have the de luxe and fancy equipment that they have but logically, I could not believe that some sort of edge could not be got with the cheap stones I was using.
So following kind and patient advice given here I reluctantly paid out for the stones I mentioned above and have been careful about pressure and meticulous about keeping the blade flat &c. And still I have seen unpleasant effects on spines which are unsightly and which I do not want. Therefore tape is the only way for me henceforth - though I shan't use it on the Gold Doillar I have on order, but I feel guilty about spoiling a nice old Sheffield or Solignen razor.
You asked about a near wedge. Yes I have one or two. ONe is a very nice razor and I ruined it. I sent it out to be done professionally and the chap said he really liked the razor. It still doesn't shave...
So far no good really, but I haven't given up yet. When the Gold Dollar 208 arrives I shall give it a good go and meanwhile continue trying to "refresh" some of the razors I have.
Thanks for your time
C.
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Earlier I said that it was effectively cheaper to buy more razors. Well these two Sheffields arrived this morning.
View attachment 691213
Not sold as shave ready, they are. No way could I get an edge such as these have. I paid £8.50 - say $11 US not counting postage for the pair!
My 8k Bester stone cost me £77 - $100 and my vintage coticule £48 - $62. So it is at present difficult to see the advantage!!
C
View attachment 691213
Not sold as shave ready, they are. No way could I get an edge such as these have. I paid £8.50 - say $11 US not counting postage for the pair!
My 8k Bester stone cost me £77 - $100 and my vintage coticule £48 - $62. So it is at present difficult to see the advantage!!
C
kelbro
Alfred Spatchcock
The advantage is that once you master your coticule, you will only need two razors
Yes of course this had occurred to me, but the economics of what I have reported are surely indusputable - and actually I like acquiring old razors - even if they are useless - or if I have managed to make them useless - they are lovely things!
C.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Have Jamie or Gary take a look at one of your edges then hone one for you. You'll have a reference point to shoot for.
Cheers, Steve
Cheers, Steve
Thanks for the suggestion Steve.
First I am in England... and second my cheap Chinese junk microscope doesn't work properly so I cannot send a picture. The sellers of this rubbish have offered to send me a replacement so we shall see.
Two more razors on the way a Puma (my third) and yet another Sheffield. At this rate with any luck I shan't need to hone any!!!
Thanks again
First I am in England... and second my cheap Chinese junk microscope doesn't work properly so I cannot send a picture. The sellers of this rubbish have offered to send me a replacement so we shall see.
Two more razors on the way a Puma (my third) and yet another Sheffield. At this rate with any luck I shan't need to hone any!!!
Thanks again
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Jamie Mahoney and Gary Haywood are both in England. Send one of them the actual razor to evaluate your honing and have them hone it so you'll have an idea of what you're trying to achieve, and can achieve.
Also give it more time. It takes some time to master. I doubt you picked up your first fountain pen and within a just a few days were writing as nice a cursive as you are now?
Cheers, Steve
Also give it more time. It takes some time to master. I doubt you picked up your first fountain pen and within a just a few days were writing as nice a cursive as you are now?
Cheers, Steve
Indeed patience and dogged persistence is a virtue in straight razor honing
Thank you once again Steve; PM sent.
C.
Indeed patience and dogged persistence is a virtue in straight razor honing
Ha ha - I am rapidly learning that this is entirely correct!
Rgds
C.
I suppose I have bored you all with my tales of (non) honing woe.
However I have had a surprise. Recently I bought this one:
I examined the bevels under my loupe and they looked pretty awful. So I used my usual attempt procedure, set the bevels &c., and at the end, like all the razors I try to hone it seemed very sharp (they all make mincemeat out of a tomato!):
Today experimenting whilst shaving as usual, I remembered the rather lightweight Graham and gave it a try. It's really pretty good I must say - a great surprise. Why this one out of at least 20 razors should have turned out properly sharp (by my standards) I cannot imagine!
Yours in the dark!
C.
However I have had a surprise. Recently I bought this one:
I examined the bevels under my loupe and they looked pretty awful. So I used my usual attempt procedure, set the bevels &c., and at the end, like all the razors I try to hone it seemed very sharp (they all make mincemeat out of a tomato!):
Today experimenting whilst shaving as usual, I remembered the rather lightweight Graham and gave it a try. It's really pretty good I must say - a great surprise. Why this one out of at least 20 razors should have turned out properly sharp (by my standards) I cannot imagine!
Yours in the dark!
C.
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- Thread starter
- #57
So maybe I went into coticule honing with unrealistic expectations, given I understand that I have years of technique to still learn, however I expected to be able to produce a "comfortably shave-ready edge" fresh off the stone. I'm finding that this is not the case, at least not with my very minimal level of skill. For a comfortably keen edge I am having to strop at least 50 passes on .3 pasted webbing and 75 on leather to have a nice comfortable shave. Is this normal? Do many others have to do this as well, or again is it just my lack of skill with a coticule? Just wondering, and thanks for the help and support along the way.
It maybe lack of skill but I do the same on .25 and .125 CBN on hanging leather for all my edges regardless of which stone I use, synth or natural. I think it is more my fondness of light saber sharp edges than a coti edge not being up to snuff off the tones .
Hi John,
I think so, but coticules are very useful stones. Don´t be frustrated, if your stone proof to be not "the" finisher you will have a good use for it any way. I used my coarser coticules for bevel setting a lot for example, it takes some time but it´s worth the effort. If your edge is not nicked or somthing starting from 1k is by far not needed, you will have a hard time to polish that out.
I can promise you it will not take you years to produce pleasant edge, maybe weeks. There is lots of "Shangrila-La" honing out there nowadays, but it´s like with everything else, you must find out for your self. 50 passes is said to be much, but if it´s necessary for now so be it. Aim for 25-30 when possible, so the bevel will not get rounded to early. The count on leather stroping makes not much difference after few good passes.
Cheers and happy shaving!
When you're able to, I would try something in the area of 25/25 clean linen and leather.
Does this mean you're trying to shave right off the stone, without stropping or am I misunderstanding? Excepting one member who mentioned doing that off a Thuringian, I don't think anyone who shaves on any kind of a regular basis does that. Stropping is quite essential. It would be unreasonable to expect a comfortable shave off any stone without stropping.
Does this mean you're trying to shave right off the stone, without stropping or am I misunderstanding? Excepting one member who mentioned doing that off a Thuringian, I don't think anyone who shaves on any kind of a regular basis does that. Stropping is quite essential. It would be unreasonable to expect a comfortable shave off any stone without stropping.
