My First Hone — Woah

There's an antique shop near me, so for fun I bought an F.W. Engels "Dictator."

I had no idea what I was doing. I just bought a coticule from Jarrod over at the Superior Shave.

I started out just polishing it, from 80 grit sandpaper all the way to 5000, then a rag and brasso.

I figured at that point might as well practice some X strokes. Ive heard of setting a bevel on a coticule, but I was kidding myself. I knew that wasn't going to happen.

Took out some 400 grit 3M sandpaper, and tried to set a bevel for kicks by setting a burr on one side with half strokes, then the other side, then x strokes to remove the burr.

Couldnt believe it. The Bevel was entirely set. Shavef armed hair, cut tomatoes with no pressure, thumb pad test, all of it. So I figured I would do x strokes on my 1.5k grit sandpaper--that went well. Then I went to my coticule and tried some horrible dilucot method (read: failure-cot). But I took the coti under water and did circles until I felt resistance, then repeated with just the weight of the blade. Then i finished on the coticle with dish soap.

No hanging hair test, No tree top cutting, but I figured if All I did was set the bevel, then for the hell of it just shave with it.

Did a one pass, no nicks, weapers, irritation. Not the best shave, but it got the job done. Cant believe my first hone on a restore junker went so dam well.

thanks B and B!

Im wondering if I should just sell the coti and hit the lapping film HARD (money is tight when it comed to grooming). Or just keep the coti and learn it. Either way, I was blown away. Amazing what 30000000000 hours reading honing threads can do.

Cool, congrats on your success.
Have you tried an edge that was honed on film? If not before I ditched the coti I'd send a razor out to have someone hone it on film, and in the meantime keep practicing on the Coticule. Shave with the film edge and then you can make an educated decision on where to go from there. Got a pic of the coti handy?

J743 said:

Amazing what stepping up to the plate and giving it a whirl can do.

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FTFY

Congrats. Well done.

Congrats!

Well done. From the sounds of it, you used some sandpaper and a coti to put an edge on a "junker" and then managed to shave with it. Why would you even consider selling the coti in that case? Everything comes with time and you should just hang on to that stone and do some more honing.

Everyone has their favorites of course. Mine is the coticule. I broke out some film recently and put an exquisite edge on my fili and was genuinely thinking that I might dabble in film more often until I applied the aftershave. Shew buddy! That was an attention getter! My face is over on the sensitive side of things and while it is extremely efficient, a film edge leaves me a bit more exfoliated than I want. I prefer my gentle coti edges, but for those that are not cursed with sensitive skin I can see how film would be a winner.

Congrats !!

Brianskeet said:

Everyone has their favorites of course. Mine is the coticule. I broke out some film recently and put an exquisite edge on my fili and was genuinely thinking that I might dabble in film more often until I applied the aftershave. Shew buddy! That was an attention getter! My face is over on the sensitive side of things and while it is extremely efficient, a film edge leaves me a bit more exfoliated than I want. I prefer my gentle coti edges, but for those that are not cursed with sensitive skin I can see how film would be a winner.

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I'm thinking of doing an entire film progression, (ordering 30, 15, 12, 9, 3,1 micron sheets--the 30 and 15 silicon carbode, the rest AlOx). After the laps on a 1, then taking the edge to the coticule. I'm thinking that may very well do the trick.

The trick to getting a gentle edge with film is to use picopaper. Two layers sometimes gives you an edge you like better than one layer, but it gets tricky.

Great job on your first hone! Dilucot really works nice once you get the hang of it. The dilution varies with the stone... no two are exactly alike. As for absolute sharpness, though, it is really hard to beat a good film edge, and you won't do it on a coti unless it is lapped nice and flat, and you cheat a little and use some lather on the stone. What coticules are famous for, is comfortable edges, not crazy science fiction sharp ones.

But hey, you got an edge, it shaved you, and you were happy with it. Go with what you got for a while, Don't spoil yourself with better and better edges. BEWARE THE RABBIT HOLE! Work on your dilucot technique a while before trying film, since you already got off to a good start with the coti you have.

I use sandpaper a lot for bevel setting, too. If you get a polished marble "bullnose" edge tile from Home ("Hone"?) Depot, and some spray adhesive, and you apply the adhesive lightly and the sandpaper very carefully, you can make a very nice temporary bevel setting stone that has teriffic flatness and lots and lots of real estate to hone on. With it glued on, you can use water and not worry about the paper curling. Be sure you don't get any wrinkles or bubbles under the sandpaper. The advantages are you never have to lap this "stone", it is really big so you get a long stroke and can rest the whole edge on it as you hone, and it is cheap when you only rarely have to set a bevel. 400 is a bit coarse unless the razor is really wrecked. I usually start with 600 or 1k, then a dozen or two on 2k before starting my film progression.

Again, with film, I can't overstress the importance of finishing over pico paper. .3 film over pico paper gives a nice buttery edge but still has exquisite sharpness. Without the paper, yeah, exfoliates, all right!

J743 said:

I'm thinking of doing an entire film progression, (ordering 30, 15, 12, 9, 3,1 micron sheets--the 30 and 15 silicon carbode, the rest AlOx). After the laps on a 1, then taking the edge to the coticule. I'm thinking that may very well do the trick.

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I am betting that you can skip the coarser grades of film at this point. The bevel has to be absolutely set, but once it is set it is set. Try starting at the 9 micron level and working down from there. Coming off 1 micron film I doubt you will need much in the way of slurry either. Come off the film and just give it a good few sets of X stokes on water only and see how you like that.

slash mccoy said:

again, with film, i can't overstress the importance of finishing over pico paper. .3 film over pico paper gives a nice buttery edge but still has exquisite sharpness. Without the paper, yeah, exfoliates, all right!

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sold

That burr-bevel-setting trick was really helpful. I followed the instructions you wrote on a thread a long while back and it did exactly what you inferred: it took ALL the guessing out of the equation. Thank you!

So once you feel the burr, then you just switch sides until the burr is gone, and once gone, X strokes?

You want to detect a burr on one side, then switch sides and do the same number of laps and feel the burr on the opposite side. IOW, you raise a burr on each side in turn. Then you know you are down to virgin steel along the entire edge on both sides. THEN remove the burr with regular alternating strokes.

This method works best with straight edges, though it can be used on smileys if you are well practiced at rocking the blade heel-toe. With a nice straight edge and a honing surface as wide as the edge is long, in theory x-strokes are not needed, but I find a slight x motion is still helpful in compensating for microscopic irregularities in the honing surface.

The method's main advantage is there is positive indication of a set bevel. No guessing. No not quite set bevels. No overhoning just to be sure. The test is very easy to evaluate. It is fast. You never have to go back to the bevel setter after a run partway through your progression and deciding the bevel wasnt set. No need to fiddle with a microscope.

The disadvantages is you may get howls of outrage from some "honemeisters" for using this method. And you waste a tiny bit of steel that you wouldnt have wasted if you had set the bevel "normally" and somehow knew by whichever testing method exactly when the bevel was truly set, and therefore exactly when to stop. As for the waste, because it is so small and because it only needs to be done once, I think it can safely be ignored. As for the howls of outrage, you can't hear them while you are listening to the razor going "SCROOSH!" through your whiskers.

Its not the only way. Depending on your needs and skill level, it may not even be the best way. But for a newbie it is dead easy to learn and implement, and it is the method I always use on a blade that is new to me.

Thanks slash!

So after the 2nd bur, you don't give that bur side a little head star before switching to reg alternating?

isi07734 said:

Thanks slash!

So after the 2nd bur, you don't give that bur side a little head star before switching to reg alternating?

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Oh, you could, I guess, but the burr gets knocked off after 3 or 4 laps, mostly, anyhow, and the rest is just bringing the true bevel out to the very edge where tiny pieces of fin were broken off. You could maybe do this... 5 strokes to the side with the final burr. 5 strokes to the other side. 4, 4. 3 and 3. 2, and 2. Then just regular alternated laps. Do it how you feel it. The real work was done in the burr raising stage, and now you are just cleaning up the edge.

If you use sandpaper on a nice big plate, which I highly recommend, try a couple dozen light laps on some 2k sandpaper after the bevel set. This ensures you have a nice clean edge with no finning. Your blade will then respond quickly to your progression. I set my bevels on 600 or 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper stuck to a 12" x 4" polished marble edge tile. The big surface is especially nice when you have a straight edge. Film is kind of slow for bevel setting. I no longer use rocks. Sandpaper for the bevel, then a film progression, gives me easy, consistent, predictable results with no mysticism involved. I don't need a challenge. I just need a great edge.

BECAUSE this method removes a significant amount of steel rather quickly, it lends itself well to repairing blades with chips and dings in the edge. For a real hardcase, you can start with maybe 400 grit or even coarser. Move up a grit as soon as you get very near the bottom of any damage. No sense in continuing to put those deep scratches in the blade any longer than necessary. Obviously you continue even when you have raised a burr on each side, if you still can see or feel the damage. You can do sets of maybe 35 circle strokes per side until the damage is nearly gone, then reduce to sets of 10, 5, 4, etc. It is just plain silly to spend an hour or two on a 1k stone fixing a beat-up edge when sandpaper of the appropriate grit will fix it in 15 minutes.

These methods are harsh medicine and you should probably practice on an old beater before restoring Grandpa's prized Fila or something.

Thank you, Slash. I appreciate the info, and all you do on this forum for that matter.

And yes, yes- no fancy blades. I'll try on GDs and cheap kitchen knives.