What configuration for a Shavemac?

So after nearly 10 months I'm finally looking at higher end badger brushes. This is definitely a luxury purchase for my particular budget, and I probably won't be able to buy until the fall sometime, but I want to narrow it down so that I have a specific item and price to aim for between now and then.

I was originally aiming for a small Simpson brush, not just because of the affordability but because a 20-22mm knot seems ideal for me as a daily driver. Sadly, it's been a bit of a turn off reading so many reports of inconsistent density and shedding knots, which for me would make it a waste of $50-$70. So I took a look at Shavemac and I like the cut of their jib.

The Simpson brushes I was interested in were the Commodore (X1 and X2), Berkeley, Colonel, and Duke D1. Basically in the neighborhood of a 21mm knot with around a 45mm loft. Would I get similar backbone/performance by configuring a Shavemac Silvertip to those same approximate specs? I'm buying completely blindly here, but I know people use those particular Simpson brushes as face latherers, which is what I'm looking for. I just don't know if Shavemac STB knots are more dense, less dense, or roughly the same as Simpson Best... or if the hair just naturally has more or less backbone. All I really do know is that I'm willing to spend in the neighborhood of $100 to get it right the first time.

Some info that might be helpful:

• As mentioned, I'm a face latherer.
• My only experience with badger is Whipped Dog. I had a 24/45 Silvertip. It shed, so Larry is replacing it with a 24/50, since the stubby was overkill on the backbone. Still have not experienced the new brush.
• My most used (and probably favorite) brush is a Semogue 620.
• While my stubby WD was too much of a wall, I got rid of my Plisson because it was too floppy.

I think a 22mm knot with 46mm loft is a good choice. The knots typically come a bit over stuffed and bigger at the handle. And if you go custom I would go a bit bigger. Maybe that's because I like bigger brushes. Also, fan shape for face lathering at that loft.

Jarick said:

I think a 22mm knot with 46mm loft is a good choice. The knots typically come a bit over stuffed and bigger at the handle. And if you go custom I would go a bit bigger. Maybe that's because I like bigger brushes. Also, fan shape for face lathering at that loft.

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Actually that's another thing I know very little about: bulb vs fan. I like bulbs aesthetically, but I've hardly thought about it otherwise.

Maybe this thread will help you decide: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/441137-How-to-choose-a-nice-brush
These brushes are also sold in the US as Savile Row at a very competitive price.

bosseb said:

Maybe this thread will help you decide: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/441137-How-to-choose-a-nice-brush

My Shavemac silvertip​

These brushes are also sold in the US as Savile Row at a very competitive price.

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Thanks, I'll digest this thread. I honestly had no idea that Shavemac was also Savile Row.

My 23/46 Shavemac silvertip has a similar bloom to the 21mm Colonel and about the same backbone, can't compare the other models though. I think 23/44 would give a nicer bit of scrub.

bosseb said:

Maybe this thread will help you decide: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/441137-How-to-choose-a-nice-brush

My Shavemac silvertip​

These brushes are also sold in the US as Savile Row at a very competitive price.

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Ex-cel-lent (other) thread, Bosse!

OP, valuable advice above! Though, in the end, you'll have to try a number of brushes to realize what's your taste (then...). Good luck and enjoy!

I took that thread into account, and I'm glad that I'm not buying this brush anytime soon. I'll probably be digging for information all summer

TheChariot said:

I took that thread into account, and I'm glad that I'm not buying this brush anytime soon. I'll probably be digging for information all summer

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Glad you found my thread useful, but as I wrote in it please be aware that nothing can replace first hand experience.

From my thread pointed to above:

As I see it there are two major drawbacks with brush reviews. Is the brush you are reading about actually available? Is it possible to draw conclusions from other people’s experiences with a brush?

The availability problem, especially with brushes made in small quantities, has to do with the badger hair itself. A manufacturer of brushes either buys the knot pre-built or builds it himself. If he builds it himself he has better control over the consistency of the quality of the knot. If he buys it from a manufacturer there is no way to make certain that the quality remains the same in between batches. Even if he builds the knot himself he has to rely on the quality of the hair from his supplier. Examples of this problem is the Simpsons knot in best badger. It is notorious for its inconsistency over the years, especially compared to Shavemacs extremely consistent knot quality. Both of these manufacturers make their own knots from badger hair that they buy from China. With this in mind it is almost impossible to determine if the brush bought today has the same knot as the one bought last year.

The problem with trying to extrapolate from others experiences regarding brushes lies in the fact that it doesn’t work. It does fuel some fierce debates here on B&B but there is really no way that you can translate others experiences to your shaving. Your shaving is unique to you. Furthermore brush reviews seldom contain any info at all about of the shave method used or how experienced the reviewer is. Even if learning from others experiences did work what would be the fun in not finding out for yourself? Would you really be happy with a brush because somebody recommended it?

But you certainly can watch them in action. YouTube is where I learned that you don't need a sub 2:1 knot/loft ratio to get a good face lather. I hardly even considered density prior to that. I'm gonna watch some people face lather with Savile Row, customized Shavemacs, and now I'm even looking at Thater. Videos certainly won't tell me everything I need to know, but could adjust the scope of my search. Plus I've got my taller WD coming in soon, and it'll be my first time using a badger brush that isn't super stubby (despite the major difference in the knot vs higher end brushes). Gotta see how I take to that experience.

Everything is relative. One person may say a Thater is too dense, the other may say it's medium density. But if you say for instance, the Thater is more dense than the Whipped Dog, you have a reference point. That's what I'm interested in, comparisons.

Knot shape is important. A bulb is going to have more backbone and feel smaller on the face, so you will want to raise the loft (and maybe go with a bigger knot) to balance it out. A fan splays out easily and feels larger on the face, so you go with a shorter loft (and maybe a smaller knot) to balance it out.

You can certainly face lather with a bulb. I still like a lot of loft. I have a 24mm Shavemac BULB with 54mm loft and that's as low as I would go for that knot shape. Savile Row has those dimensions; it feels pretty dense but works well. Thaters seem to be a bit shorter for 4125 handles and a bit taller with 4292 handles.

Is the whipped dog knot that you currently use a fan or bulb? Does the presence/size of this knot feel comfortable when applying lather? I ask these questions to try to gauge if a 22mm is going to disappoint you do to the smaller size. I know that I have become accustomed to a certain range of knot size and smaller ones are less enjoyable for me.

Whipped Dog knots are all a hybrid shape, closer to a bulb than a fan though. The 45mm loft of the 24mm brush will be really pointy and feel closer to an 18-20mm fan on the face (but with more backbone).

shevek said:

Is the whipped dog knot that you currently use a fan or bulb? Does the presence/size of this knot feel comfortable when applying lather? I ask these questions to try to gauge if a 22mm is going to disappoint you do to the smaller size. I know that I have become accustomed to a certain range of knot size and smaller ones are less enjoyable for me.

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Jarick said:

Whipped Dog knots are all a hybrid shape, closer to a bulb than a fan though. The 45mm loft of the 24mm brush will be really pointy and feel closer to an 18-20mm fan on the face (but with more backbone).

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This is the WD when I first got it last October:

This is a SOTD from a few weeks back:


Not much bloom to be found, and it did not splay out to feel huge on the face. I liked that aspect of it, and wouldn't mind it being a bit smaller. With the new brush I've yet to receive (50mm loft), I suspect that it will be a bit larger on the face. I'll see how I jive with all that, but I'm thinking it will be worth it because the backbone of the 45mm just felt like overkill. I think I'm going to learn a lot about what I'm looking for once I use the new one a few times. It will probably cover more real estate on my face than I prefer, but it's worth it to experience a more moderate backbone.

Also, I've taken to more of a paintbrush action while building lathers, as opposed to constantly scrubbing a splayed brush against my face for nearly the entire process. In my head I used to think "it will only make lather if you're working it really hard" until learning that a lot of the work is happening in between those hairs. Now I tend to do more movement with less pressure than before.

I honestly would have gone with a Simpson Commodore X1 if not for all of the shedding/inconsistency reports. I've seen people face lather with the Berkeley, which has similar knot dimensions to the X1, but I'm wary about simply mimicking the same knot dimensions with a Shavemac Silvertip because they're obviously very different types of hair and build qualities. Aiming for the Shavemac/Thater caliber is more about quality than luxury for me, but I'm shifting up to an area that I'm completely unfamiliar with. I just know that I don't want it to be as stiff as my 24/45 WD, yet still have the backbone for face lathering.

Again, I'd consider the shape of the brush:



Fans will feel bigger on the face and have less backbone, so you usually go with a smaller knot and/or loft. Bulbs will have more backbone and control so you usually go with a larger knot and/or loft.

Jarick said:

Again, I'd consider the shape of the brush:

Fans will feel bigger on the face and have less backbone, so you usually go with a smaller knot and/or loft. Bulbs will have more backbone and control so you usually go with a larger knot and/or loft.

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Thanks, that picture really helped drive the point across. I'll definitely add that factor in. I didn't even consider fans before looking into Shavemac, but this really makes a lot of sense. I feel like a fan would lend itself to painting motion a bit better as well.

I mostly bowl lather, but I do some face lathering, and I like a fan for its versatility.

The only Shavemac knot I've ever used is a D-01 2-band, and it has loads of backbone for good face lathering, but still soft enough for the same. You can go for a slightly taller loft and still get plenty of great backbone.

I've heard fantastic things about the 2-band silvertip for face lathering, as well.

You're going to have a hard time going wrong.

I think you are correct on the painting motions with fans.

I personally find the shavemac bulbs too stiff, the fans seem just right to me for face lathering, at the 2:1 ration. Here's mine.

Thanks guys, this was really helpful in narrowing things down. I'll probably target a 20-22mm silvertip knot in a fan shape, with a 42-46mm loft. At least I'm in the ballpark now. I might tweak this over time if my experience with my new WD opens my eyes up to difference things, or if I just learn more about brushes in general.

Now I just have to save up... And avoid wasting that savings on a Simpson instead. They just look so damn good on paper.