Help a noob find a soap/cream for an easily abraded face, plus a question about angle

Some past history here so you know where I'm coming from:

In high school, I was given a Remington electric shaver. It was horrid. Did nothing but pluck hairs out of my face. In college, I got fed up and bought a Mach 3, which worked much better but was still a traumatizing experience. Eventually, I settled on using a Mach 3 and Edge brand ultra-sensitive fragrance free shave gel. The thickness of the gel and its determination to stay between my face and the razor reduced the harm done to my face but it was still a horrible experience. I could never shave any more frequently than every 3rd day. If I tried even every second day, a trip to the dermatologist resulted. Eventually, I opened my own business and decided that since I was the boss, I didn't have to shave any more. I went almost 10 years just using an Oster electric clipper with #000 blade every week or two. The only problem with this was the 2-3 times a year either my wife or my grandmother decided I had to be clean-shaven for some event or the other. It was back to the Mach 3 and back to horrible at those times.

Eventually, I somehow stumbled onto the benefits of more traditional shaving. The thought that I could get the women in my life to stop nagging me and at the same time have a shave that wasn't something the CIA might try on enemy combatants was tempting. After reading on this and other forums, I eventually ordered a Gillette rectangle-hole Tech, two giant sampler packs of blades, some RazoRock Artisan Shaving Soap For Sensitive Skin (Neroli scent), and a Plisson Cade by L'Occitane brush. So far, my results are MUCH improved compared to what I was doing before but I'm still trying to get a few things dialed in.

First is the lather. When the RR Artisan is built up thick and foamy, it's pretty slick. However, it doesn't have much staying power. The razor dives through it and gets against my skin pretty easily. Obviously, it's better than just water, but it doesn't seem to force the razor to hydroplane as well as the Edge shaving gel used to. Is there a cream or soap that is "tougher" (has a higher film strength) than the RR Artisan and will cause the razor to glide (rather than drag) over my skin better? Complicating factor: I have a number of chemical allergies. Pretty much, if it isn't all natural and nearly scent-free, there's a good chance I'll be allergic to it. The RR Artisan Neroli is about the most heavily-scented thing I can put up with. For reference, I tried the Nivea Sensitive Skin ASB and it was so heavily scented that it set me off.

Second, to my surprise it seems I have difficult to cut hair. Before trying this, I would have said that I had pretty run of the mill, possibly even soft, facial hair. Though my wife has been griping about my "face spears" for years. So it was with great surprise that many of the blades I tried felt like they were trying to rip my hair out by the roots rather than cut it. It wasn't until I tried some blades regarded as very sharp (Feather, Personna Med Prep, BIC) that the amount of force required to move the razor dropped off and the pulling/plucking sensation stopped. Anyway, the problem I'm having is that the razor isn't consistently removing everything it runs over. It's leaving a LOT behind after a given stroke. I've been following the advice of NO PRESSURE and the minimum angle that gets the razor to cut (instead of just sliding the head across my face). However, a lot is left behind if I do this. If I take 3 or more passes to get it little by little, I end up with TERRIBLE razor burn that takes days to heal. I can go 2 passes with no problem, 3 if I avoid the most problematic areas. However, I can "cheat" and put some pressure on the razor or steepen the angle until the razor starts making a loud crackling nose and the drag goes way up, and get more off per pass. If I'm careful with this, I can actually get less irritation from 2 "wrong" passes than from 3 "good" passes. What's going on here? Is this angle? Pressure? Choice of razor?

Thanks for all the help!

From your post it looks to me like you are having two problems: making lather and your technique.

I have not tried the RR soap you are talking about but have used other RR soaps. If used properly you should be getting slick lather that prepares your beard and cushions your razor as you are shaving.

First, what are you doing for pre-shave prep? Preparation is important. Some prefer to take a shower before shaving. Others, like me, shave before showering. However, I wash my face and make sure my face is wet whenever I put lather on my face. I find a wet face combined with lather that has sufficient water in it gives me a smooth shave. Hydration is important to get a lubricating lather. So be sure to have sufficient water in your lather. Also, don't cheat on the product. I have found it helpful to wet my face before each pass. The extra water on my face seems to make my shave smoother. If haven'talready done so take a look at the wiki on lathers. Also, this post may help you.


If you are not cutting enough beard with each pass it could be your technique is off and/or your razor is not aggressive enough for your beard. For blade angle here is a good post that may help you.
You may need a more aggressive razor to get your beard done properly. An adjustable or slant razor may fit your needs.

Great advice from Jim paricularly about prep and blade angle. Your soap/cream of choice should allow you razor to glide. I also start with a dripping wet face and rinse between each pass leaving it dripping wet. Experiment with your soap/water ratio by bowl lathering until you learn to make the lather you want.

Excellent, excellent advice above. As far as your soap/cream, Kiss My Face is all-natural and some folks complain the scent isn't strong enough, which might be just right for you. It's also found locally usually. 2 pumps and enough water gives me a thick, slick lather. Of course YMMV, but it might be worth a try.

Preshave is just a shower. Yes, I wet my face before applying lather, and then again before each time I re-lather.

I've looked at the lathering tutorial and that's the way I'm doing it now. My lather looks like the example pictures of good lather and I've played with it enough to see what it looks like both too dry and too wet.

In the linked post on angles, my Tech starts cutting somewhere between 6 and 7 and that's where I've been trying to do it based on what people have said here. I can feel the edge against my skin at that point. Steepening the angle to about 5 is where I get the loud crackle, lots of drag, and a slightly closer shave. However, any small mistakes lead to large bad results at that point.

ackvil said:

From your post it looks to me like you are having two problems: making lather and your technique.

I have not tried the RR soap you are talking about but have used other RR soaps. If used properly you should be getting slick lather that prepares your beard and cushions your razor as you are shaving.

First, what are you doing for pre-shave prep? Preparation is important. Some prefer to take a shower before shaving. Others, like me, shave before showering. However, I wash my face and make sure my face is wet whenever I put lather on my face. I find a wet face combined with lather that has sufficient water in it gives me a smooth shave. Hydration is important to get a lubricating lather. So be sure to have sufficient water in your lather. Also, don't cheat on the product. I have found it helpful to wet my face before each pass. The extra water on my face seems to make my shave smoother. If haven'talready done so take a look at the wiki on lathers. Also, this post may help you.


If you are not cutting enough beard with each pass it could be your technique is off and/or your razor is not aggressive enough for your beard. For blade angle here is a good post that may help you.
You may need a more aggressive razor to get your beard done properly. An adjustable or slant razor may fit your needs.

Click to expand...

Jim, i would also add gear, the Tech may be a bit mild for his situation.....

williaty said:

Some past history here so you know where I'm coming from:

In high school, I was given a Remington electric shaver. It was horrid. Did nothing but pluck hairs out of my face. In college, I got fed up and bought a Mach 3, which worked much better but was still a traumatizing experience. Eventually, I settled on using a Mach 3 and Edge brand ultra-sensitive fragrance free shave gel. The thickness of the gel and its determination to stay between my face and the razor reduced the harm done to my face but it was still a horrible experience. I could never shave any more frequently than every 3rd day. If I tried even every second day, a trip to the dermatologist resulted. Eventually, I opened my own business and decided that since I was the boss, I didn't have to shave any more. I went almost 10 years just using an Oster electric clipper with #000 blade every week or two. The only problem with this was the 2-3 times a year either my wife or my grandmother decided I had to be clean-shaven for some event or the other. It was back to the Mach 3 and back to horrible at those times.

Eventually, I somehow stumbled onto the benefits of more traditional shaving. The thought that I could get the women in my life to stop nagging me and at the same time have a shave that wasn't something the CIA might try on enemy combatants was tempting. After reading on this and other forums, I eventually ordered a Gillette rectangle-hole Tech, two giant sampler packs of blades, some RazoRock Artisan Shaving Soap For Sensitive Skin (Neroli scent), and a Plisson Cade by L'Occitane brush. So far, my results are MUCH improved compared to what I was doing before but I'm still trying to get a few things dialed in.

First is the lather. When the RR Artisan is built up thick and foamy, it's pretty slick. However, it doesn't have much staying power. The razor dives through it and gets against my skin pretty easily. Obviously, it's better than just water, but it doesn't seem to force the razor to hydroplane as well as the Edge shaving gel used to. Is there a cream or soap that is "tougher" (has a higher film strength) than the RR Artisan and will cause the razor to glide (rather than drag) over my skin better? Complicating factor: I have a number of chemical allergies. Pretty much, if it isn't all natural and nearly scent-free, there's a good chance I'll be allergic to it. The RR Artisan Neroli is about the most heavily-scented thing I can put up with. For reference, I tried the Nivea Sensitive Skin ASB and it was so heavily scented that it set me off.

Second, to my surprise it seems I have difficult to cut hair. Before trying this, I would have said that I had pretty run of the mill, possibly even soft, facial hair. Though my wife has been griping about my "face spears" for years. So it was with great surprise that many of the blades I tried felt like they were trying to rip my hair out by the roots rather than cut it. It wasn't until I tried some blades regarded as very sharp (Feather, Personna Med Prep, BIC) that the amount of force required to move the razor dropped off and the pulling/plucking sensation stopped. Anyway, the problem I'm having is that the razor isn't consistently removing everything it runs over. It's leaving a LOT behind after a given stroke. I've been following the advice of NO PRESSURE and the minimum angle that gets the razor to cut (instead of just sliding the head across my face). However, a lot is left behind if I do this. If I take 3 or more passes to get it little by little, I end up with TERRIBLE razor burn that takes days to heal. I can go 2 passes with no problem, 3 if I avoid the most problematic areas. However, I can "cheat" and put some pressure on the razor or steepen the angle until the razor starts making a loud crackling nose and the drag goes way up, and get more off per pass. If I'm careful with this, I can actually get less irritation from 2 "wrong" passes than from 3 "good" passes. What's going on here? Is this angle? Pressure? Choice of razor?

Thanks for all the help!

Click to expand...

All 3.....change the razor if possible, i think its too mild for your issues.

Well it's a bit late, but I'm new and have some helpful preshave advice. My face is also very sensitive, but I have a thick beard. I use a preshave oil. I shower and wash my face. Once out of the shower I apply a thin layer of preshave oil (I like the unscented oil from Art of Shaving) then I apply my cream. I find this helps a lot in terms of aiding the blade in its glide across my face. I also rinse between applications of cream and switching directions of my shave. If you'd like you can also re-apply oil after rinsing.

unwell41 said:

Well it's a bit late, but I'm new and have some helpful preshave advice. My face is also very sensitive, but I have a thick beard. I use a preshave oil. I shower and wash my face. Once out of the shower I apply a thin layer of preshave oil (I like the unscented oil from Art of Shaving) then I apply my cream. I find this helps a lot in terms of aiding the blade in its glide across my face. I also rinse between applications of cream and switching directions of my shave. If you'd like you can also re-apply oil after rinsing.

Click to expand...

Your never too late at B&B.....great advise, but i dont use the oil, for me it is not functional.

This is the OP here...

So, last night's shave was by far the smoothest I've had and with minimal irritation. Several things changed and I'm not sure entirely which was the real key.

First, my pre-war triangle-slot Tech showed up. Supposedly, this is only a slight increase in aggressiveness compared to my initial post-war no-date-code Tech but it absolutely makes a difference. The pre-war feels like it's actually getting a bite on most or all of the hair it goes over while the post-war Tech often feels like a lot of hair isn't making it up to the blade. BIG improvement!

Second, I demonstrated to my wife how to make lather. I did this in the evening before either of us had showered and the results were SPECTACULAR. There's obviously something different about our water (well water, very hard, lots of iron, fed through a softener to get down to 1 grain of hardness) by the time we've used two showers' worth vs when we've left it alone all day. Because of this, I tried using distilled water and suddenly my lather is tremendously better. Much more of it, much thicker, much slicker.

Third, I tried some home-made pre-shave oil (3 parts almond, 1 part castor).

Like I said, not sure which one is the magic key, but together, it's a heck of a lot better!


Since I liked the pre-war Tech better than the post-war Tech and the difference is a slight increase in aggressiveness, what relatively moderate cost razor is just a touch more aggressive than a pre-war Tech?

Willaty - glad to read of your progress. I wouldn't focus so much on finding a razor that is "a slight increase in aggressiveness" over the pre-war Tech. Just work with it and perfect the shaves for 2-3 weeks and then look around.

When you do, probably next step would be a 1940's Super Speed or a regular one.

Keep progressing!

williaty said:

This is the OP here...

So, last night's shave was by far the smoothest I've had and with minimal irritation. Several things changed and I'm not sure entirely which was the real key.

First, my pre-war triangle-slot Tech showed up. Supposedly, this is only a slight increase in aggressiveness compared to my initial post-war no-date-code Tech but it absolutely makes a difference. The pre-war feels like it's actually getting a bite on most or all of the hair it goes over while the post-war Tech often feels like a lot of hair isn't making it up to the blade. BIG improvement!

Second, I demonstrated to my wife how to make lather. I did this in the evening before either of us had showered and the results were SPECTACULAR. There's obviously something different about our water (well water, very hard, lots of iron, fed through a softener to get down to 1 grain of hardness) by the time we've used two showers' worth vs when we've left it alone all day. Because of this, I tried using distilled water and suddenly my lather is tremendously better. Much more of it, much thicker, much slicker.

Third, I tried some home-made pre-shave oil (3 parts almond, 1 part castor).

Like I said, not sure which one is the magic key, but together, it's a heck of a lot better!


Since I liked the pre-war Tech better than the post-war Tech and the difference is a slight increase in aggressiveness, what relatively moderate cost razor is just a touch more aggressive than a pre-war Tech?

Click to expand...

The Heavy handle Techs

alex2363 said:

The Heavy handle Techs

Click to expand...

OK, how does one differentiate a heavy handle Tech's head from the other kinds (since so many show up on eBay with mis-matched handle and head)?