As long as you don't start asking me about my mother.
No. No need to: the diagnosis is already clear- passive aggressive troublemaker.
Coticule frustration and questions
- Thread starter Chaloney
- Start date
No. No need to: the diagnosis is already clear- passive aggressive troublemaker.
- Thread starter
- #42
Thank you Herr docktor. I'll be sending payment presently, please go wait by your mailbox
- Thread starter
- #43
Ok, back on track.
While I appreciate the unicot suggestion as the easiest way to find out what my coticule is capable of, I'm really not interested. One, I hate honing with tape, and two my ultimate goal is to find a way to get a good (not necessarily maxed out), shave ready edge to then max out on the apache strata. The couple times I've done this the edge is simply the best I've ever used except for one. By a long ways. It's moderately keener than my best film or jnat edges (admittedly I'm far from an expert on either) and as smooth as I could imagine. Smoother than the best coticule edges I've gotten simply because it cuts so effortlessly as well as gliding across the skin, seemingly unable tto cut or irritate it.
As I said, Gary suggested something to me that I tried on my gold dollar. He said take a razor and hone on a 3k-ish hone (I used 5 micron film) then go directly to water only on the la grise. 100 half-laps on each side then 100 x-stroke laps under running water. I tried this and to my surprise got hht3-4 after stropping. Shaved with it this morning and it was pretty good. Smooth, a little tugging, closer than expected from the feel of the shave. Atg left a bit to be desired, so I redid the atg pass with my dovo best (one of the two with the coticule-apache edge) fantastic shave in the end. Later I took the GD to the apache. 10 laps, test. Repeated four times for a total of 50 laps and hht 4-5 fairly easily. Testing it in the am
This afternoon I received a gamble buy from the bay - listed as "bangel", only showed the back of the razor. Stated "no nicks or cracks." It arrived today an, as I hoped, it was a bengall 6/8+ with minimal hone wear. 10 minutes with some polish and took this picture:
Set the bevel, after two rounds of white diamond polish which can do a number on an edge, with only 50 half laps on a dmt600. Did 100 on the 1200 then about 90 alternating laps to be sure it was set, although I think that was easily double the work it needed on the 1200. Dilucot on the la grise using Brian's scheme (well, I screwed up the counting a couple times but I got close to the lap counts he described). About 5 slurry dilutions. Then 100 half laps on water and 50 x-stroke laps under running water. Started to feel like the edge wanted to dig into the stone so I stopped. Violining a little off the stone but some 3's and 4's after stropping. The blade has a slight smile so I did 25 rocking x strokes, hht was better but not quite at the level of the others. Another 25 and it looked good. After stropping mostly hht5's with a few 4's. So, either the bengall is a lot easier to hone (this is supported be the surprising ease with which the bevel was set) or I've been overdoing the water only stage on most of my troublesome razors. Time will tell. I'll use the bengall for a few strokes while I test shave the gold dollar tomorrow.
While I appreciate the unicot suggestion as the easiest way to find out what my coticule is capable of, I'm really not interested. One, I hate honing with tape, and two my ultimate goal is to find a way to get a good (not necessarily maxed out), shave ready edge to then max out on the apache strata. The couple times I've done this the edge is simply the best I've ever used except for one. By a long ways. It's moderately keener than my best film or jnat edges (admittedly I'm far from an expert on either) and as smooth as I could imagine. Smoother than the best coticule edges I've gotten simply because it cuts so effortlessly as well as gliding across the skin, seemingly unable tto cut or irritate it.
As I said, Gary suggested something to me that I tried on my gold dollar. He said take a razor and hone on a 3k-ish hone (I used 5 micron film) then go directly to water only on the la grise. 100 half-laps on each side then 100 x-stroke laps under running water. I tried this and to my surprise got hht3-4 after stropping. Shaved with it this morning and it was pretty good. Smooth, a little tugging, closer than expected from the feel of the shave. Atg left a bit to be desired, so I redid the atg pass with my dovo best (one of the two with the coticule-apache edge) fantastic shave in the end. Later I took the GD to the apache. 10 laps, test. Repeated four times for a total of 50 laps and hht 4-5 fairly easily. Testing it in the am
This afternoon I received a gamble buy from the bay - listed as "bangel", only showed the back of the razor. Stated "no nicks or cracks." It arrived today an, as I hoped, it was a bengall 6/8+ with minimal hone wear. 10 minutes with some polish and took this picture:
Set the bevel, after two rounds of white diamond polish which can do a number on an edge, with only 50 half laps on a dmt600. Did 100 on the 1200 then about 90 alternating laps to be sure it was set, although I think that was easily double the work it needed on the 1200. Dilucot on the la grise using Brian's scheme (well, I screwed up the counting a couple times but I got close to the lap counts he described). About 5 slurry dilutions. Then 100 half laps on water and 50 x-stroke laps under running water. Started to feel like the edge wanted to dig into the stone so I stopped. Violining a little off the stone but some 3's and 4's after stropping. The blade has a slight smile so I did 25 rocking x strokes, hht was better but not quite at the level of the others. Another 25 and it looked good. After stropping mostly hht5's with a few 4's. So, either the bengall is a lot easier to hone (this is supported be the surprising ease with which the bevel was set) or I've been overdoing the water only stage on most of my troublesome razors. Time will tell. I'll use the bengall for a few strokes while I test shave the gold dollar tomorrow.
- Thread starter
- #44
Thoight i had posted this eatlier but i guess it didnt go throug. The gold dollar was good. Not quite at the level of the dovo or hackett, but a nice comfortable shave this morning. I think I might try a bit of work on a light slurry followed by the apache. I think I have been overworking at some points on the coti.
I did a couple strokes with the bengall and it seems very promising.
Also, the vintage coti i won on the bay should arrive today. It will need some significant lapping due to some chips on both ends. Looking forward to trying it.
I did a couple strokes with the bengall and it seems very promising.
Also, the vintage coti i won on the bay should arrive today. It will need some significant lapping due to some chips on both ends. Looking forward to trying it.
Excellent!
After the the method you used with gold dollar I was going recommend you now took it back to misty watery slurry on la grise and back to water, to what differance that would make and then go back to slightly more slurry through to water on next shave and just see how the slurry effects the shave. Then you can see how it goes from there using gradually more slurry until you get the results.
gary
Ok, back on track.
While I appreciate the unicot suggestion as the easiest way to find out what my coticule is capable of, I'm really not interested. One, I hate honing with tape, and two my ultimate goal is to find a way to get a good (not necessarily maxed out), shave ready edge to then max out on the apache strata. The couple times I've done this the edge is simply the best I've ever used except for one. By a long ways. It's moderately keener than my best film or jnat edges (admittedly I'm far from an expert on either) and as smooth as I could imagine. Smoother than the best coticule edges I've gotten simply because it cuts so effortlessly as well as gliding across the skin, seemingly unable tto cut or irritate it.
As I said, Gary suggested something to me that I tried on my gold dollar. He said take a razor and hone on a 3k-ish hone (I used 5 micron film) then go directly to water only on the la grise. 100 half-laps on each side then 100 x-stroke laps under running water. I tried this and to my surprise got hht3-4 after stropping. Shaved with it this morning and it was pretty good. Smooth, a little tugging, closer than expected from the feel of the shave. Atg left a bit to be desired, so I redid the atg pass with my dovo best (one of the two with the coticule-apache edge) fantastic shave in the end. Later I took the GD to the apache. 10 laps, test. Repeated four times for a total of 50 laps and hht 4-5 fairly easily. Testing it in the am
This afternoon I received a gamble buy from the bay - listed as "bangel", only showed the back of the razor. Stated "no nicks or cracks." It arrived today an, as I hoped, it was a bengall 6/8+ with minimal hone wear. 10 minutes with some polish and took this picture:
Set the bevel, after two rounds of white diamond polish which can do a number on an edge, with only 50 half laps on a dmt600. Did 100 on the 1200 then about 90 alternating laps to be sure it was set, although I think that was easily double the work it needed on the 1200. Dilucot on the la grise using Brian's scheme (well, I screwed up the counting a couple times but I got close to the lap counts he described). About 5 slurry dilutions. Then 100 half laps on water and 50 x-stroke laps under running water. Started to feel like the edge wanted to dig into the stone so I stopped. Violining a little off the stone but some 3's and 4's after stropping. The blade has a slight smile so I did 25 rocking x strokes, hht was better but not quite at the level of the others. Another 25 and it looked good. After stropping mostly hht5's with a few 4's. So, either the bengall is a lot easier to hone (this is supported be the surprising ease with which the bevel was set) or I've been overdoing the water only stage on most of my troublesome razors. Time will tell. I'll use the bengall for a few strokes while I test shave the gold dollar tomorrow.
OUTSTANDING! Glad you got that stone to give you better results. Always feels good to get one figured out!
- Thread starter
- #48
If just light slurry doesn't do well on hht after stropping, I'll do water only again. The two times I got it to work, I stopped with a light/misty slurry and didn't do any water only laps. I think I just got lucky then (stopping at the right time) and since then I've been overworking it at some points. There is still room for improvement on this one, so I'll keep stepping back a little at a time, as you suggest. Thank you again. This has been very helpful. I like the systematic approach.
I won't call it figured out til I can make it work a few more times, but thanks for your help and support. I have a few razors that need scales and a few more that need more restoration, but then I'll have several more to hone.
- Thread starter
- #49
For anyone else trying to figure out a coticule, this was a helpful read: http://www.coticule.be/advanced-feedback-markers.html
Brilliant write up.
gary
gary
- Thread starter
- #51
Great shave from the bengall this morning. The vintage coti showed up yesterday afternoo . Started lapping it a bit this morning. Still a little more to do to get a chip on the side out. The ends are a little chipped also but if I'm careful, it won't effect honing on i . Its about 125x30mm. The coti layer is a creamy yellow-tan color with no variation but with a few hairline cracks that are not able to be felt. I'll post pictures when I get a chance but it might be a day or two. Its a natural combo but there's a big chip out of the bbw side. Lapping it out will leave the stone rather thin. I'll probably eventually lap it enough to make a reasonable size area to try honing on but not in the immediate future
- Thread starter
- #52
So here's the new stone with the slurry stone I got with the la grise from tss. Any thoughts on the vein? Its a natural combo with a very purple-colored bbw back sid . Sharply demarcated wavy transition between bbw and coti. I'll get a side pic and a bbw pic up soon
Put the Frederick Reynolds to it after setting the bevel on the DMT. Slurry turned much darker much quicker than on the la grise. Lighter pressure than on the la grise. Dilucot to misty then rinsed and about 50 x stroke laps on water. A little dark swarf appeardd but it didn't seem to auto slurry. Crazy violining straight off the stone. Hht 4-5 after stroppin . Super easy, like the front page vids on coticule.be. I'll shave with it in the morning and if its good I'll see if the apache makes a difference. If I can get it to do this consistently, I think I will be done buying hones for the forseeable future.
Put the Frederick Reynolds to it after setting the bevel on the DMT. Slurry turned much darker much quicker than on the la grise. Lighter pressure than on the la grise. Dilucot to misty then rinsed and about 50 x stroke laps on water. A little dark swarf appeardd but it didn't seem to auto slurry. Crazy violining straight off the stone. Hht 4-5 after stroppin . Super easy, like the front page vids on coticule.be. I'll shave with it in the morning and if its good I'll see if the apache makes a difference. If I can get it to do this consistently, I think I will be done buying hones for the forseeable future.
So here's the new stone with the slurry stone I got with the la grise from tss. Any thoughts on the vein? Its a natural combo with a very purple-colored bbw back sid . Sharply demarcated wavy transition between bbw and coti. I'll get a side pic and a bbw pic up soon
Put the Frederick Reynolds to it after setting the bevel on the DMT. Slurry turned much darker much quicker than on the la grise. Lighter pressure than on the la grise. Dilucot to misty then rinsed and about 50 x stroke laps on water. A little dark swarf appeardd but it didn't seem to auto slurry. Crazy violining straight off the stone. Hht 4-5 after stroppin . Super easy, like the front page vids on coticule.be. I'll shave with it in the morning and if its good I'll see if the apache makes a difference. If I can get it to do this consistently, I think I will be done buying hones for the forseeable future.
You know we have all said that before. Until they develop a twelve step program for us I think we are doomed.So here's the new stone with the slurry stone I got with the la grise from tss. Any thoughts on the vein? Its a natural combo with a very purple-colored bbw back sid . Sharply demarcated wavy transition between bbw and coti. I'll get a side pic and a bbw pic up soon
Put the Frederick Reynolds to it after setting the bevel on the DMT. Slurry turned much darker much quicker than on the la grise. Lighter pressure than on the la grise. Dilucot to misty then rinsed and about 50 x stroke laps on water. A little dark swarf appeardd but it didn't seem to auto slurry. Crazy violining straight off the stone. Hht 4-5 after stroppin . Super easy, like the front page vids on coticule.be. I'll shave with it in the morning and if its good I'll see if the apache makes a difference. If I can get it to do this consistently, I think I will be done buying hones for the forseeable future.
Looks ms like a pritty fast stone I cont think your Apache will make much differance. If you get a violin of stone next time, do a set of half strokes with pressure then 30 light x strokes I gaurantee you will see a catch and pop.
gary
- Thread starter
- #55
- Thread starter
- #56
Got a similar result off the vintage coti with the stille that was giving me trouble at the start of the thread. Hht 4-5 after stropping. I do need to chamfer the edges a bit more thoroughly after a bit more lapping but otherwise I'm quite happy with the results.
- Thread starter
- #57
Did 50 rolling strokes with the Reynolds on the apache. Hht up to 5 root in or out (a first for me). Shave was fantastic. Yesterday (before apache) I could feel a little resistance atg and the final result was a strong dfs, today atg felt almost like there were no hairs and the result was an irritation free shave and as close a shave as I've had by any method but with most similarly close shaves I've had at least some irritation, if not a lot of it. I'm very excited with this progression. I'll try again on the la grise soon.
I bought around 50 hones bevore i realised that i can get an awsome shave of my first coti.............. The first coti i got ( i sold it long time ago...., was some kind of very aggressive La Grise, and the 4th stone 1 bought, first one was dedicated for kitchen knives an Chroma 3k/8k that was worth nothing because no bevel was set....... second one was an chroma 800 , and i startet to learn, then a Naniwa 10k and finally the coti, because of his strange behave (no one explained me that this kind of stone acts like an 2k hone with slurry....., and it was soft, so i could not get a fine result of it).
I don`t want to diss any kind of finishers (at this point everybody have to laugh........., cause i got to many of them), just wanna say, master your coti, and it will bring you the smoothest shaves that you can get.
Greets Sebastian.
I don`t want to diss any kind of finishers (at this point everybody have to laugh........., cause i got to many of them), just wanna say, master your coti, and it will bring you the smoothest shaves that you can get.
Greets Sebastian.
^ That's the truth right there! I am having fun with my new Apache, but a good coticule edge is a wonderful thing.
Not sure if this has been brought up, as I couldn't read through every post on my phone, but it took me a good year to learn how to get a good edge of a coti (I started with la grisse and use several different types now). What saved me was a post by Gary, I believe, somewhere that you should start with a fairly light slurry if you are coming off a bevel setting stone and proceed through dilucot from there. That was it for me, and I can get a good edge off of all my coticules now. It was just that my slurry was too heavy to begin with. Now I generally will do 10-15 dilutions starting with the light slurry, 15 half strokes each side, then a few sets on an almost washed off stone, then a few in water, then test with hht and x strokes in water if needed. Anyway, good luck.
Steve
Steve
