Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers

Steve_M · Sep 4, 2014

Hi Everyone

I received my first Single Ring yesterday. Details are as follows

Serial Number: E187037
Location of Serial: Outer Barrel
Location of Patent: Inner Barrel
Patent Stamp Type: BR.PAT.No.28763.02
Diamond Logo: Double
G-Inside-D: No
Current Owner: Steve_M
Location Found: Australia - Ebay
Comments: Has J.J.P engraved just before the serial number, I assume its a previous owners initials. Also did not come with a box.

I've browsed this thread since winning the auction and its of great interest. Will read in detail when I get the chance.
Looks like a previous owner has taken to the top plate with some steel wool - after a quick polish there wasn't much shine.

A question which i'm sure has been covered elsewhere - is it worth fixing a bent tooth? I'm lucky that it doesn't have a cracked handle, however the end tooth is bent, as per below picture. I haven't shaved with it yet - i'm still learning with my #58 and Muhle R89.

Thanks
Steve

GBinOZ · Sep 4, 2014

Hi Steve,

Congratulations - You really got a bargain on that one, plus the bonus of the English Tech. I had this on my watchlist but got distracted. I'm glad that that it went to a B&Ber, especially as a first single ring, and that it stayed down under.

Most of the advice offered on bent end teeth is to leave it alone. Better bent than broken, and it shouldn't affect the shave. I usually shim these razors but opinion varies on that as well.

Your razor is a valuable contribution to our database as it is the earliest example of an E series with the new marking protocal (shown in black on my chart). My personal opinion is that it would have been made at Leicester around 1909.

I'll add it to the wiki.

Cheers, George

larzone · Sep 20, 2014

I also now own a British single ring.

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Jake · Sep 20, 2014

Beautiful!

nuclearblast · Sep 20, 2014

Nice, congrats!

Is that an E or a B? Can't tell from the pic ...

larzone · Sep 20, 2014

It's a B. Really dont know that much more. Should be in the mail to me this monday.

nuclearblast · Sep 20, 2014

larzone said:
It's a B. Really dont know that much more. Should be in the mail to me this monday.

Now that's a puzzling one ... None of the other English Single Rings' serial # start with a B:

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_England_Dating_Information

There's a few oddballs though (bottom of the chart).

Actually Achim has this one, just like yours:

http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1906-08 Single Ring England.JPG

I wonder why this one isn't on the English chart too ... Well, the experts will know.

mblakele · Sep 20, 2014

B54901, script-logo case with diamond logos on the blade boxes. No G-in-D or other markings aside from the patent. Assuming those blade boxes are original, it cannot be any earlier than May 1908 at the very earliest. More likely no earlier than September 1908 and possibly 1909-10. I think B56223 from Achim also has diamond logos on the blade boxes, but the photo is not completely clear. Anyway both of those razors were probably made in the same factory at about the same time.

Both razors also look very much like http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1909 Standard Set.JPG, which has the USA patent mark and is B31475. I think it also has diamond logos on the blade boxes, but again the photo is not completely clear.

Perhaps B54901 and B56223 were not made in the UK? Both could possibly be Boston production that was stamped with the British patent number, destined for the overseas market. Then both would be a 1909 razor using the USA B-series numbers: probably the second half of 1909.

Maybe at that point the production in Leicester was not quite sufficient for local demand? Perhaps Leicester concentrated more on blade production in its first year?

nuclearblast · Sep 20, 2014

mblakele said:
Perhaps B54901 and B56223 were not made in the UK? Both could possibly be Boston production that was stamped with the British patent number, destined for the overseas market. Then both would be a 1909 razor using the USA B-series numbers: probably the second half of 1909.

That's what I was thinking.

larzone · Sep 20, 2014

mblakele said:
B54901, script-logo case with diamond logos on the blade boxes. No G-in-D or other markings aside from the patent. Assuming those blade boxes are original, it cannot be any earlier than May 1908 at the very earliest. More likely no earlier than September 1908 and possibly 1909-10. I think B56223 from Achim also has diamond logos on the blade boxes, but the photo is not completely clear. Anyway both of those razors were probably made in the same factory at about the same time.

Both razors also look very much like http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old%20Type/1909%20Standard%20Set.JPG, which has the USA patent mark and is B31475. I think it also has diamond logos on the blade boxes, but again the photo is not completely clear.

Perhaps B54901 and B56223 were not made in the UK? Both could possibly be Boston production that was stamped with the British patent number, destined for the overseas market. Then both would be a 1909 razor using the USA B-series numbers: probably the second half of 1909.

Maybe at that point the production in Leicester was not quite sufficient for local demand? Perhaps Leicester concentrated more on blade production in its first year?

Thank you for your thoughts and input, really appreciate it. I will provide better pictures when I have that razor. I dont know anything about the razor except that it belonged to a swedish old gentlemen that collected shaving related items, bought one, almost NOS, #15 sold in Sweden with swedish instructions. Maybe the seller, who knows the cllector can tell me more. I'll keep you updated.
Again, thank you all for hard work and input to this amazing thread!

/Peter

GBinOZ · Sep 20, 2014

nuclearblast said:
Now that's a puzzling one ... None of the other English Single Rings' serial # start with a B:
I wonder why this one isn't on the English chart too ... Well, the experts will know.

Nice find Peter.

The A and B serial numbers with the English patent and the Boston marking protocol (ser# on inner cylinder, pat# on outer cylinder) were made in Boston for the European market. There was at this time also a G series with the Boston protocol that were initially a gold series and later a special order marking. Gillette never felt obliged to have a requirement that razors necessarily had to bear the patent of the country in which they were made.

The English chart was established to collect a database of razors with the European marking protocols, all of which, so far, have prefixes of E, F or H. The E, F, G and H prefixes were re-used 10 years later, and the clue to the dating lies in which marking protocol is employed.

Hope you enjoy your razor. Will it be for using or just for looking at?

Cheers, George

nuclearblast · Sep 20, 2014

GBinOZ said:
The A and B serial numbers with the English patent and the Boston marking protocol (ser# on inner cylinder, pat# on outer cylinder) were made in Boston for the European market. There was at this time also a G series with the Boston protocol that were initially a gold series and later a special order marking. Gillette never felt obliged to have a requirement that razors necessarily had to bear the patent of the country in which they were made.

The English chart was established to collect a database of razors with the European marking protocols, all of which, so far, have prefixes of E, F or H. The E, F, G and H prefixes were re-used 10 years later, and the clue to the dating lies in which marking protocol is employed.

Thanks for clarifying, George.

larzone · Sep 20, 2014

nuclearblast said:
Thanks for clarifying, George.

+1

larzone · Sep 20, 2014

nuclearblast said:
Thanks for clarifying, George.

GBinOZ said:
Nice find Peter.

The A and B serial numbers with the English patent and the Boston marking protocol (ser# on inner cylinder, pat# on outer cylinder) were made in Boston for the European market. There was at this time also a G series with the Boston protocol that were initially a gold series and later a special order marking. Gillette never felt obliged to have a requirement that razors necessarily had to bear the patent of the country in which they were made.

The English chart was established to collect a database of razors with the European marking protocols, all of which, so far, have prefixes of E, F or H. The E, F, G and H prefixes were re-used 10 years later, and the clue to the dating lies in which marking protocol is employed.

Hope you enjoy your razor. Will it be for using or just for looking at?

Cheers, George

Thank you George so its a Boston made in 1910? Not NOS so I will surely use it a couple of times. Not that found of Old Type but wish that I one day can fully appreciate my single ring and my Bulldog.

MacDaddy · Sep 22, 2014

larzone said:
Thank you George so its a Boston made in 1910?

Unless I'm misreading the serial number, it looks like it's just B54901, which would put it back into 1909.

GBinOZ · Sep 22, 2014

MacDaddy said:
Unless I'm misreading the serial number, it looks like it's just B54901, which would put it back into 1909.

Porter's right (is there an echo in here? :biggrin1:

). The number is B 54901. The Boston factory used a blank after the letter prefix for any zeroes, while the european protocol was to actually use zeroes. So best evidence at this time suggests made in Boston in 1909.

I find that the performance of the Single Ring is enhanced by the use of a shim - JMO.

Cheers, George

larzone · Sep 25, 2014

1909, of course! Thank you all, truly a big source of knowledge!

782sirbrian · Feb 28, 2015

I have 4 of the Leicester UK made single rings in my collection.
The first I mention is a Combination set, with 2 metal blade boxes with match striker.
2 metal canisters, for brush and soap.
The head has double diamond logos inside
The serial number is around the outer barrel/handle E295135
Patent date BR.PAT.No28763.02 on the top of the inner barrel
The case has a tape embroidered logo sewn inside of the lid.

http://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/media/50865/full&original=1

This is my first post so go easy on me just getting the photo up is a challenge :blushing:

nuclearblast · Feb 28, 2015

782sirbrian said:
I have 4 of the Leicester UK made single rings in my collection.
The first I mention is a Combination set, with 2 metal blade boxes with match striker.
2 metal canisters, for brush and soap.
The head has double diamond logos inside
The serial number is around the outer barrel/handle E295135
Patent date BR.PAT.No28763.02 on the top of the inner barrel
The case has a tape embroidered logo sewn inside of the lid.

http://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/media/50865&original=1&c=3

This is my first post so go easy on me just getting the photo up is a challenge

Beautiful set!

Welcome to B&B, Brian.

GBinOZ · Feb 28, 2015

Welcome to B&B Brian. The announcement of 4 British Single Rings is certainly a grand entry to the forum. If you are uncetain about how to add your examples to the Wiki I would be happy to do that for you if you post the appropriate details. The Wiki is here:

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_England_Dating_Information

The example that you posted above is the highest E Series serial number so far and the only combination set so far. Does it have the British patent underneath the box? Three more example will give you the honour of being the highest contributer to this Wiki.

I notice that you live at Sheffield, home of the great British straight razor, and only about 65 miles from Leicester. Heaven for a razor collector.

Cheers, George

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Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers

Steve_M

GBinOZ

larzone

Jake

nuclearblast

larzone

nuclearblast

mblakele

nuclearblast

larzone

GBinOZ

nuclearblast

larzone

larzone

MacDaddy

GBinOZ

larzone

782sirbrian

nuclearblast

GBinOZ

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