Edwin Jagger DE89 vs. Mühle R89

I'm becoming a bit of a Mühle fanboy as of late, and I've heard varying stories about these two razors. Can anyone answer authoritatively: Are they, in fact, identical? I don't care about the handles, but how "identical" are the heads? Are they from the same factory identical, or was one the inspiration for the other? I had heard before that the DE89 and the Parker 71R were "practically the same razor." However, I just got a DE89 and it is "practically the same razor" in the same way that a Chevy Malibu is "practically the same car" as a Ford Fusion. I mean, look, they clearly shared some common design elements, and they have similar mechanisms, but they shave completely differently. The 71R is way more aggressive than the DE89. The gap is different. The blade exposure is different. The blade angle is different. The 71R looks and feels like somebody looked at the DE89 and said "Hey, I could make that!" And proceeded to do so, from memory. I'm not saying it's bad at all, just not the same.

So is the R89 similar, or literally the same head? If they're different, how are they different? Thanks all!

i have had both and i am VERY particular and i saw no differences between the two. in fact my wife could not tell either after shaving with both. i have since sold them or i would get some macro pics. but i can say personally to me they were identical. the only difference to me was being honest the edwin jagger version had better overall quality plating. the muhle had a few VERY tiny imperfections on the top cap. one thing ej heads have is great plating normally unlike merkur. i do not off the top of my head remember exactly which muhle it was the 89 head but not the same handle) i had but i looked them both over side by side for a good while checking each side of the baseplate the safety bar etc and the two i had looked identical even size wise when held together

They supposed to have the same head but different handles, Muhle's is lighter. But I can't understand why R89 costs twice as DE89.

I spent the extra on the muhle grippier handle. Same head as ej, yes.

My understanding is that the head was designed by Edwin Jagger and produced as a joint venture. Hence, the heads are identical. The handles do differ. I tried the Muhle R89 because I liked the handle aesthetics better than any of the EJ variants.

I have two Mühle handles from my R41s and they don't see the light if day. It's not as if they're terrible, but I have an Ikon SS Bulldog 2 and a Weber SS Bulldog, and they pretty much live on which ever head I feel like using that day.

Teppanyaki said:

My understanding is that the head was designed by Edwin Jagger and produced as a joint venture. Hence, the heads are identical. The handles do differ. I tried the Muhle R89 because I liked the handle aesthetics better than any of the EJ variants.

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This is sort of what I've read. There is discussion on the forum, and I believe a reproduced quote from one or the other manufacturers. The gist of the story is that the head design was a joint venture, but each manufacturer produces the head independently of the other.

aihpcfl said:

This is sort of what I've read. There is discussion on the forum, and I believe a reproduced quote from one or the other manufacturers. The gist of the story is that the head design was a joint venture, but each manufacturer produces the head independently of the other.

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You nailed it.

Here is an excerpt from an interview with Neil Jagger that another B&B member showed to me.

Obie: The story going around is that the German Muhle makes the Edwin Jagger razor shave head. Is this correct or is it just falacy?

Neil: Actually we hear this a lot. This is not correct at all. It was Andreas Muller — new to the Muhle Company at the time — and myself who teamed up to search for potential contract manufacturers before we started to design a two-part head that suited both company’s needs. It was a very exciting time as we exchanged numerous sketches and CAD drawings with alteration after alteration. Ultimately my determination to keep improving the underside of the DE base plate — clean and uncluttered — allowed us to agree on a new design that was really quite different from anything else we had seen already on the market. Once we had approved the drawings we both committed to prototyping costs and shared the complicated tooling costs, which were at that time considerable.

Obie: This then, once and for all, erases the currently held belief that Muhle designs and produces the Edwin Jagger shave head.

Neil: Having actively been involved in the design, trialing and final prototyping, just like Andreas, I view the DE head as part Edwin Jagger design. We do not rely on Muhle for supplies to fulfill our growing sales. Our components come direct from our tools and we determine availability, our own production runs and Edwin Jagger quality control.

chamm said:

I have two Mühle handles from my R41s and they don't see the light if day. It's not as if they're terrible, but I have an Ikon SS Bulldog 2 and a Weber SS Bulldog, and they pretty much live on which ever head I feel like using that day.

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If you will never use the EJ or Muhle handle, you can just buy the head from The English Shaving Company. At least you used to be able to.

mmack66 said:

If you will never use the EJ or Muhle handle, you can just buy the head from The English Shaving Company. At least you used to be able to.

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I got a very good deal on an EJ89 on B/S/T, and the handle is very nice, I just doubt I'll ever use it. So, in my mind, I have an R89 and don't need my RAD to flare up again.

Muhle and Edwin Jagger designed it together. They are exactly the same. I prefer the EJ because of the handle being heavier, I use my EJ handle on my r41

Vlamgat said:

They supposed to have the same head but different handles, Muhle's is lighter. But I can't understand why R89 costs twice as DE89.

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Twice the cost for 4 times the beauty - it's only fair.

reggiehogarth said:

Twice the cost for 4 times the beauty - it's only fair.

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I don't know. That EJ Barleycorn handle is pretty sweet. I had a Muhle with the plastic ivory handle and it was okay, but definitely not worth more than an EJ.

mmack66 said:

I don't know. That EJ Barleycorn handle is pretty sweet. I had a Muhle with the plastic ivory handle and it was okay, but definitely not worth more than an EJ.

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I personally think it is one of the, if not THE, most beautiful razors.

reggiehogarth said:

I personally think it is one of the, if not THE, most beautiful razors.

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Almost agreed. Although there are some equally beautiful modern razors, but not at that price.

What head is this? I only see that it is not a R89.

reggiehogarth said:

View attachment 389621

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I thought that the above photo was a R89. I don't see a toothcomb.

Teppanyaki said:

I thought that the above photo was a R89. I don't see a toothcomb.

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Neither do I, but the studs of the R89 head cap do not penetrate the base plate to that degree.

To me, it looks like my Parker 71R. Similar in looks or a R89/EJ89, but nothing like it shave-wise.

reggiehogarth said:

I personally think it is one of the, if not THE, most beautiful razors.

View attachment 389621
View attachment 389622View attachment 389623

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I have yet to see a more beautiful razor. Love the all chrome but there is something about the rose gold. Magnificent.

aihpcfl said:

This is sort of what I've read. There is discussion on the forum, and I believe a reproduced quote from one or the other manufacturers. The gist of the story is that the head design was a joint venture, but each manufacturer produces the head independently of the other.

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This.