Translation problems? There is no translation involved - just copying. The spelling errors must be intentional to avoid copyright issues. Any moron can look at a box and copy the letters/characters verbatim, no matter what language they're in. There has to be more to it than that.
More fake blades out - from the same ebay seller
- Thread starter insomniac
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Translation problems? There is no translation involved - just copying. The spelling errors must be intentional to avoid copyright issues. Any moron can look at a box and copy the letters/characters verbatim, no matter what language they're in. There has to be more to it than that.
Also, "trade dress" is not protected the same way in the Chinese market. This means that you can often copy the styles, graphics and fonts of other products, but, as long as you use a different name, it may not be considered counterfeit or infringing on trademarks in China itself. Thus, those fake Derby looking blades, for example, could be totally legal in China (but not in many countries, if exported).
As to the people that bought on ebay- send an ebay message to the seller complaining that they appear to be counterfeit. If he does not offer a refund including shipping, open up a SNAD (not as described) complaint with ebay and be sure to mention the blades appear counterfeit. Either way, you will likely get a refund....
As to the people that bought on ebay- send an ebay message to the seller complaining that they appear to be counterfeit. If he does not offer a refund including shipping, open up a SNAD (not as described) complaint with ebay and be sure to mention the blades appear counterfeit. Either way, you will likely get a refund....
Plus a zillon. ebay is very sensitive about counterfeit products being sold on ebay. If there is any evidence at all that a seller is selling counterfeit, you'll get a full refund, if they receive multiple complaints, they'll shut him down. Apparently the lat time around he refunded Iridium purchasers no questions asked. I'm sure he doesn't want it to go to ebay as a "not as described/counterfeit" claim. Given that this seller has apparently displayed a pattern of selling counterfeits, even his name is apparently a counterfeit, I would not hesitate to make a claim.
I'll wait until mine arrive and if they aren't genuine, I'll contact the seller ASAP.
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As far as I know, he did refund sellers - when the sellers complained.
I do not know if he refunded everyone regardless of whether they complained or not, which is what he should have done as soon as he realized he was selling counterfeit products.
One would think this seller would be a bit more careful after being stung just a few weeks ago.
I'm sure they will refund the money, but this seller should still be reported to ebay. We need to protect those who aren't reading B&B and other shaving forums regularly and are overpaying this seller for counterfeit blades.
Sorry, but there was only two distributors for Iridiums other than the Wizamet Polsilvers - Proctor & Gamble UK, and Proctor & Gamble Australia.
Assuming that the product was buried by P&G, these two still hold distribution rights until such time as they are revoked, transferred, sold or expire. P&G Australia still holds the distribution rights - I have confirmed this via phone in the last 48 hours.
I am still making enquiries. Coming up against a few walls, just have to find ways to word the questions that I want them to answer.
Copyright and trademarks in China are next to useless. Even if you were able to get a judgement in your favour in a Chinese court (virtually impossible) then the damages awarded are miniscule if any, and they are basically told to stop doing it.
The situation is improving, but while manufacturing is so cheap in China, it will always be a problem. International pressure will not help anything, unless either the companies outsourcing manufacturing to China pull out and go elsewhere, or Western Governments tax the life out of Chinese made-goods (think a 300% tarrif). That is the sort of thing that will make China wake up and take notice that we will not stand for our IP being ripped off so blantantly. Until the Chinese authorities see it as bringing dishonor to their country, I doubt that anything will change.
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Very interested to hear what you discover!!! Seems like you are the one to find the answer to this puzzle!! Thanks for your efforts!!
I can testify that the Chinese often don't bother with proper English translations or spellings.
In Shanghai, I came across this storefront. I think I stood there 10 minutes trying to figure out what they were saying.
I think it's.... "Popular foreign fashions should be tailor-made."
In Shanghai, I came across this storefront. I think I stood there 10 minutes trying to figure out what they were saying.
I think it's.... "Popular foreign fashions should be tailor-made."
I was on Ebay just now and the seller no longer has the fake Rubies for sale. Given that he had several listings for them with different quantities, it's not unreasonable to assume that he removed them having been made aware that they were fake.
When mine arrive, I'll contact him about returning them. In the meantime, I bought these from another seller:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280648718564&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
When mine arrive, I'll contact him about returning them. In the meantime, I bought these from another seller:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280648718564&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Oh I seriously doubt he refunded anyone that didn't complain. THat's why I'm saying anyone who bought these should absolutely complain and they WILL get their money back, but really think he should be reported to ebay as well.
I agree. Once mine arrive and I can ascertain that they are fake, I will do so.
He refunded me after I opened a claim with ebay. His feathers got a bit ruffled though when I left him a negative feedback for the transaction. I told him, "Dude, you sold counterfeit blades, hence the negative feedback!"
Like people don't have anything better to do than buy on ebay, make a claim, and return an item. Good for you
The risk of buying counterfeit blades on ebay is too large. I buy NOS blades all the time, but its worth an extra few dollars per 100 current production to know what I'm getting from a reputable dealer.
Sadly, SI arent available at dealers. But the discontinuation and appearance of fakes isn't a coincidence. Why anyone would bother copying derby's, however, is beyond me
You can't leave negative feedback if the vendor acknowledged the problem and corrected it right away.
You can't leave negative feedback if the vendor acknowledged the problem and corrected it right away.
He shouldn't have tried to dupe people with counterfeit blades. Based on his sales volume, he should have known the blades were fake. Large volumes of blades don't just appear outside the normal distribution line, much less discontinued ones that vendors can't even get
You can't leave negative feedback if the vendor acknowledged the problem and corrected it right away.
Normally I'd agree with you, Chris, but in this case the seller should have done the due diligence on the blades. This isn't somebody making a few bucks off an estate sale or antique shop, with no idea what they're selling.
The tip-off is that his eBay name seems counterfeit as well....just one letter different than another seller with the same type of product-line. It might be a coincidence but it's highly suspicious... since he appears to be trying to confuse people as to his identity as well.
I have a feeling that he was trying to cash in on Jason's (a.k.a. dridiot) success.
But to be totally fair to him, I did purchase from idiotdoc a parcel of 120 7 O'Clock Super Stainless ("Russian Greens") from him that were 100% legit.
As we all know, product availability and differentiation is what drives sales when pretty much everyone has the same thing. If you can source blades that nobody else has, then you have a competitive advantage in the market. You are likely to sell those, but also get sales of your other products as buyers look to combine postage.
I have a feeling that he was trying to differentiate his available products, was able to get blades nobody else had, but unfortunately they were counterfeits. Still, he should have known and/or sampled what he was thinking of selling - unfortunately his name will take a beating because of it.
As I posted, I believe the Rubie's to be a non-genuine product. Once I have fresh stock from a trusted vendor and a microscope to examine the blades, the products will be compared in detail, including shave comparisons. I believe that the evidence I present will be compelling.
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The genuine blades have arrived! Lets have a closer look.
I would like to thank David Mendoza a.k.a. iamdarkangel2005 from proud B&B vendor Razorbladesandmore.com (vendor thread here) for stocking genuine product. He has been able to supply me a tuck of 100 Gillette Rubie Platinum Plus blades to compare the blades supplied by idiotdoc. They were paid for by me - not free/PIF of any kind - and arrived today in less than 2 weeks from California to a day west of Sydney.
The verdict: the idiotdoc-supplied blades are most assuredly fake.
The packaging is very detailed and an extremely good copy. As a former graphic artist and pre-production print press operator, I have 10 years experience in a number of areas including Imagesetters and platesetters, shooting bromides, production of printing plates from film, plus digital workflows, automated ink trapping. I would rate these 90% correct from a graphic design point of view however it is the small touches and print quality control that let them down. The printing is also very good but does not match the quality of the genuine packaging, and the cardboard that the box is constructed from lets it down.
The first and easiest way to spot the deficiency in the packaging and thus identify them as counterfeit is in the font of the barcode number. The fakes appear to have used Helvetica Condensed Light for the font, instead of the much more common OCR-B font that you will see on any real barcode numbering. This in fact is more likely to be a system error, with the platesetter/imagesetter that the plates or film was produced on did not have the same font on its systems. This could be a different font version revision, or possibly the artwork was done with a Truetype (TTF) font while the font installed on the production equipment was more likely Type1 or OpenType. This will drop back to a default font, usually Courier New Light, however this can be configured to something less obvious like Arial/Helvetica/Swiss721 style.
As you can see the print copying is very good otherwise, the text is not as crisp though. It appears they have been too heavy on the inking setting on the press. This is especially evident on the address text where the fake looks heavily-inked and kind of smudgy - the edges are not as sharp.
The second main deficiency is the real packs have cellophane wrapping of the box, whereas the fakes do not. Because of this, and the lower quality cardboard they are made from, the boxes appear damaged and tend to break along the box edges.
This is exactly how the Fakedidium boxes acted also, the outside surface cracked along the creasewheels on the press, and then when bent into shape then the cardboard surface cracks and peels away a little (for example of the left side of the top edge of the fake).
You can also see the difference in print quality in the above shot.
Also on the front, you can see the bad registration between the Red print and the Silver print. You will notice that the edges of the star are soft on the genuine (printing term is 'screened', or where you fade it and the print method is to turn it into ever decreasing in size dots), while the edges are hard on the fakes. The fakes are also missing the small white highlights in the star.
The third easy way to tell if you have fakes is that they are supplied as loose boxes and usually in a plastic zip-loc sandwich bag, while the genuine blades are distributed on a fold-up cardboard tuck, just like the Gillette Dark Platinums, Voskhods, Ladas, Lord Platinums, Mexican Red Personnas, etc etc etc.
I hope this helps the shaving community. A complete comparison and review between these blades will be posted at Paste & Cut in the near future, I am awaiting my microscope to be delivered so we can compare the steel, grind and hone between the fake and the genuine Rubies.
I would like to thank David Mendoza a.k.a. iamdarkangel2005 from proud B&B vendor Razorbladesandmore.com (vendor thread here) for stocking genuine product. He has been able to supply me a tuck of 100 Gillette Rubie Platinum Plus blades to compare the blades supplied by idiotdoc. They were paid for by me - not free/PIF of any kind - and arrived today in less than 2 weeks from California to a day west of Sydney.
The verdict: the idiotdoc-supplied blades are most assuredly fake.
The packaging is very detailed and an extremely good copy. As a former graphic artist and pre-production print press operator, I have 10 years experience in a number of areas including Imagesetters and platesetters, shooting bromides, production of printing plates from film, plus digital workflows, automated ink trapping. I would rate these 90% correct from a graphic design point of view however it is the small touches and print quality control that let them down. The printing is also very good but does not match the quality of the genuine packaging, and the cardboard that the box is constructed from lets it down.
The first and easiest way to spot the deficiency in the packaging and thus identify them as counterfeit is in the font of the barcode number. The fakes appear to have used Helvetica Condensed Light for the font, instead of the much more common OCR-B font that you will see on any real barcode numbering. This in fact is more likely to be a system error, with the platesetter/imagesetter that the plates or film was produced on did not have the same font on its systems. This could be a different font version revision, or possibly the artwork was done with a Truetype (TTF) font while the font installed on the production equipment was more likely Type1 or OpenType. This will drop back to a default font, usually Courier New Light, however this can be configured to something less obvious like Arial/Helvetica/Swiss721 style.
As you can see the print copying is very good otherwise, the text is not as crisp though. It appears they have been too heavy on the inking setting on the press. This is especially evident on the address text where the fake looks heavily-inked and kind of smudgy - the edges are not as sharp.
The second main deficiency is the real packs have cellophane wrapping of the box, whereas the fakes do not. Because of this, and the lower quality cardboard they are made from, the boxes appear damaged and tend to break along the box edges.
This is exactly how the Fakedidium boxes acted also, the outside surface cracked along the creasewheels on the press, and then when bent into shape then the cardboard surface cracks and peels away a little (for example of the left side of the top edge of the fake).
You can also see the difference in print quality in the above shot.
Also on the front, you can see the bad registration between the Red print and the Silver print. You will notice that the edges of the star are soft on the genuine (printing term is 'screened', or where you fade it and the print method is to turn it into ever decreasing in size dots), while the edges are hard on the fakes. The fakes are also missing the small white highlights in the star.
The third easy way to tell if you have fakes is that they are supplied as loose boxes and usually in a plastic zip-loc sandwich bag, while the genuine blades are distributed on a fold-up cardboard tuck, just like the Gillette Dark Platinums, Voskhods, Ladas, Lord Platinums, Mexican Red Personnas, etc etc etc.
I hope this helps the shaving community. A complete comparison and review between these blades will be posted at Paste & Cut in the near future, I am awaiting my microscope to be delivered so we can compare the steel, grind and hone between the fake and the genuine Rubies.
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