Advice for getting proper lather from soap with hard water?

I unfortunately live in an area with hard water. I seem to be able to generate a good enough lather if I'm using a cream, but when I try soap I have no luck at all.

I've tried Tobac (which I've sold...wife couldn't take the smell) and I've been working with a puck of Col. Conk Amber. I really worked at it today for several minutes, thought I had a fairly good lather going, but it dissapated before I even finished my first pass (and I was using a feather, so OUCH!).

Is it just the soap? Or am I doomed because of the hard water situation? Are there any soaps that are known to do better with hard water?

misterrachel said:

I unfortunately live in an area with hard water. I seem to be able to generate a good enough lather if I'm using a cream, but when I try soap I have no luck at all.

I've tried Tobac (which I've sold...wife couldn't take the smell) and I've been working with a puck of Col. Conk Amber. I really worked at it today for several minutes, thought I had a fairly good lather going, but it dissapated before I even finished my first pass (and I was using a feather, so OUCH!).

Is it just the soap? Or am I doomed because of the hard water situation? Are there any soaps that are known to do better with hard water?

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For more information, please check the wiki page on water. It might be helpful (and let us know if it is!)

Thank you, that's good information. I would still be interested to know what soaps people have had decent luck with in conjunction with hard water.

soapbox said:

For more information, please check the wiki page on water. It might be helpful (and let us know if it is!)

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misterrachel said:

I've tried Tobac (which I've sold...wife couldn't take the smell) and I've been working with a puck of Col. Conk Amber.

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LOL. My SWMBO said the same thing, I kinda liked it, but she is SWMBO.

When I lived in Petoskey, MI I had very hard water. I experimented with different products and found Omega shave cream to be about the best. I did not try Omega shave soap however.

Face lathering helps a little bit with hard water, in my experience, but Irisch Moos, e.g., does contain water softeners that improve its performance in the North Texas hard water versus other soaps. Although I get pretty good performance out of most soaps, so maybe North Texas water isn't as hard as yours.

Don't settle with soap that does better with hard water. Just get a some bottled water and use it for shaving purposes. A gallon will last quite a few shaves then you can use any soap you want.

I have very hard water where I live. I use filtered (Brita) water for my mug and soaps. It seems to help a great deal.

misterrachel said:

I unfortunately live in an area with hard water. I seem to be able to generate a good enough lather if I'm using a cream, but when I try soap I have no luck at all.

I've tried Tobac (which I've sold...wife couldn't take the smell) and I've been working with a puck of Col. Conk Amber. I really worked at it today for several minutes, thought I had a fairly good lather going, but it dissapated before I even finished my first pass (and I was using a feather, so OUCH!).

Is it just the soap? Or am I doomed because of the hard water situation? Are there any soaps that are known to do better with hard water?

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Cream is already half way there, as it is more moist than soap. When I had hard water I found that it took much more soap and much more work to create proper lather. I still was able to obtain useable lather from what ever soap I used (AOS, Williams, Surrey (now defunct), or Burma Shave soap (alas, also discontinued).

If you are unable to get the lather you want from soap, after working on lathering technique for a while, don't consider yourself "doomed." Although I personally prefer soaps, there is nothing wrong with creams. In fact, they offer more scent variety than soaps. The bottom line is finding products that work for you.

I find that boiling my water helps a bit.

I live in a hard water area, and according to the wiki map, right smack in the middle of the red zone. Learn something new every day.

Now I have lived in different parts of the world and have used soap and brush in all these places, and I have never really noticed any impact with the results of creating lather or with the shave. Sometimes I may need to reload a brush for a second or third pass, but I contribute that to not loading the brush sufficiently the first time, not the quality of water.

Perhaps it is that I am accustomed to the water of the region and have subconsciously adapted. I almost always face lather and the only time I noticed issues with creating lather was during some experimenting with making lather in a bowl. I did go to India for two months and my first few shaves did require making some adjustments to creating lather, I used a bit more water to soak the top of the soap, and I did not shake out as much water from the brush as normal. I also would not drink the tap water there, only from sealed water bottles.

I hear many purport that water makes the difference, and have even repeated that statement to others. I did try some distilled water for a week, and I must admit, the shave did feel more comfortable, and the lather did feel richer, thicker, and held more moisture, but it was not so noticeable that it would make me go buy bottles of distilled water and heat the water just to shave with… a little more ‘prep work’ than I care to deal with regularly, so I have learned to deal with using the water of the region just the way it comes out of the tap. Now, if the water starts coming out of the tap other than clear with some air bubbles, I think I would have greater concerns than using it to shave.

I started using Zach's method (look for SMFZzach on youtube) for lathering soaps - it really helped get me started getting a good lather out of hard water. It does use a lot of product, but it's a good starting point. You can back off his technique to get to where you are comfortable in amount of product and water you use.

Here's a thread where someone else had good success with this method - the link to the video is in the first post.

I found I can lather VDH Deluxe, Provence Sante, Williams (to a good degree, anyway), D. R. Harris (Arlington) and Tabac using this method, and even backing off some in the amount of brush loading I do.

In fact, I am coming to the conclusion that I like soaps better than creams.

FWIW, I am a DE user, not a straight user.

Oh, and I believe that Sue at Saint Charles Shave adds something in her soaps that mitigates hard water problems (I believe it's the Tetrasodium EDTA, based on the wiki info).

BlackBard said:

I still was able to obtain useable lather from what ever soap I used (AOS, Williams, Surrey (now defunct), or Burma Shave soap (alas, also discontinued).

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I believe that Surrey soaps became VDH, either by just a labeling change or by a change of ownership. There's some history here but I don't recall the relevant threads.

I have a counter top 10'' water filter in the kitchen with a 5 micron ceramic filter. I use the electric kettle to boil the water I fill from the filter, pour into a bowl and use that for shaving. It worked well so far with two soaps (Cade and Conk) and with the creams I have.

I think a water filter is a must as it makes the water not just healthier but tastier too. I prefer carbon filters but ceramic work well too after a week of break-in and last much longer if cleaned periodically.

I also have rock-hard water. I've come to the conclusion that I can get decent lather from bowl-lathering the following soaps:

• Mitchell's Wool Fat
• Bath House Spanish Fig & Nutmeg
• P.160 Tipo Duro

I'm still working on mastering the art/science of lather creation, so my lather tends to be hit-or-miss as often as not. But, I've had good results at least once from each of these.

Now, that being said, I seem to be having a slightly better time getting good lather out of tube cream. As far as that goes, I really suspect that it's because I can more easily see the amount of product that I'm working with, so that I can make sure to use enough.

All is not lost! Make sure that you load enough product, have a damp enough brush to start and add water slowly.

HTH!

Bobtrumpet said:

Originally Posted by BlackBard
I still was able to obtain useable lather from what ever soap I used (AOS, Williams, Surrey (now defunct), or Burma Shave soap (alas, also discontinued).

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I believe that Surrey soaps became VDH, either by just a labeling change or by a change of ownership. There's some history here but I don't recall the relevant threads.

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I think Surrey sold to VDH, but VDH soap is not the same as Surrey. Loved Surrey, no love for VDH. It lathers well, but I can't stand the baby doll color nor the smell.

I used to buy Surrey shave soap directly from the company when I could not no longer find it in stores. You have no idea how much I wanted that first puck of VDH to be just like Surrey. I was so disappointed.

Thebigspendur said:

... Just get a some bottled water and use it for shaving purposes.

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Not necessarily so! What you want is a gallon of DISTILLED WATER, if you are going to get bottled water. Not all bottled waters are created equal. In fact, the majority of them are simply filtered tap water.

I live in an area that has rock hard water. As an experiment, I tried distilled water not along ago and got quite a bit more lather. Usually, I just face lather.

I'm still trying various soaps and creams myself, so I cannot give you any recommendations.

This is an interesting thread on a topic I was wanting to ask about. I fall into the "Hard Water" category on that map and assume it's true because I'm always having to use Lime-A-Way on our faucets and if I don't dry my razor off with a towel when I'm done shaving, a filmy mineral haze develops on it. I've spent a lot of time practicing with and using lather from quite a few products and believe now our hard water is hindering my ability to create a good lather. My lathers are passable, but that's about it.

I've been using an Omega Pro48 boar brush and have been using Proraso Green in a tub. I get pretty good lathers, but definitely none in the "ridiculously easy to lather" realm that Proraso Green seems to be famous for. My lather seems to either turn out to be too dry and thick or too runny and watery, no matter how much I practice with technique and product/water ratios.

I just ordered a tube of Proraso Green cream and am going to try that whipped up in a bowl. I've tried the Proraso Green in a tub lathered both in the tub and in a bowl. Both techniques yield about the same consistency of lather. I'm also going to try an Arko stick and do some face lathering.

Before I do that, I'm going to experiment with the Proraso and a gallon jug of distilled water I have in the basement that I use to top off my motorcycle battery. I guess if I use it and still don't get a great lather, it must be my technique rather than the hard water. I'm curious to find which one it is.

I usually soak my brush in fairly warm tap water and put my tub of Proraso in there to warm up a little bit while I shower. Tomorrow I'm going to try soaking my brush in the distilled water and then use it to build my lather to see what happens.

I like to pre-soak my puck with some warm to hot water as I shower. Softens up the soap, makes it easier to load.

Galaktus said:

I like to pre-soak my puck with some warm to hot water as I shower. Softens up the soap, makes it easier to load.

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+1 This. Plus, if you use some of the water that you used to soak the puck as lathering fodder, I have found that it works wonders. Good luck Sir!

Try Cella, it's a softer soap. With a super badger brush and face lathering I can get lots of thick lather even with hard water.