Wondering if this whole str8 thing is going to work out...

[Drubbing]

Hello there -

I am obviously new at this (only ~2 weeks), so I realize that the first advice I'm likely to hear is 'keep at it', 'too early to tell'...etc. I've probably practised with the str8 only ~10 times, always finishing with the DE. But so far, I've had only minimal success and I'm beginning to wonder if this whole thing is making sense...

You're getting further than me, for about the same 'blade time'. I bought a vintage here, found it vitrually unusable even after a good hone, then sold it and got a Dovo Special (bought and honed by Lynn Abrams), as I wasn't convinced the vintage blade was good enough. I was right, the Dovo is far better, but it's still hard to use.

I just don't have time in the mornings to straight shave (3 kids to muster), so do it when I evening shave and on weekends. Many, many shaves later, I can't progress beyond doing my cheeks and the flatter part of my neck. XTG anywhere, even the cheeks? Forget it.

It's getting tiresome, and not really enjoyable. Especially since I learned a hard lesson from Jockey's tute vid, when I tried to attempt my relucant upper lip. He said gently 'scoop' the blade. I duly did so and buried it in my lip and scooped out a bit of it. Since then, I'm far more cautious than I need to be. And I don't listen to guys who do vids anymore.

Admittedly, I'm not using it everyday, but that isn't an option for me. I'll keep the blade, but I don't think I'll become a fan.

If this doesn't sound like you, then stick with it.

 

[Romac]

I earlier advised some sharpness tests - please ignore the thumbnail test I mentioned - i've been informed that this is only to be used while honing and can ruin the edge of a finished blade.

Sorry for this, but I do think that sharpness may be your issue.

 

[Woodash]

First - thanks to all who responded here, whether addressed specifically here in quotes or not.

I may be stating the obvious, but I read this thread and hadn't seen it mentioned...

are you certain your blade is sharp? have you done hanging hair tests? (don't do thumb nail tests)

Yes, I have now realized that this is indeed a large part of the problem. I checked 3 of the sharpness tests on the SRD Wiki and I am clearly not shave-ready. Failed the HHT miserably. Now, I still believe that the blade came shave-ready, but poor stropping technique on a not-so-good small strop may have set things back. But I've got a plan...

....On of the problems is we expect to feel or hear results resulting in pressing down to make things work as we think they should work . . . . but no with a razor maybe not....

...well so far for me light . . . blade pressure . . . is working. I've pressed harder and had bad shaves....

...I have dark hair and light skin . . . unless I go against the grain on my neck I see visually long stubble. Keeping in ming the lightness of touch going against the grain works for me just fine . . . now . . . finally . . . . wow....

I actually don't have much expectation about sensory/tactile things because I have no frame of reference - it's all new. But I'm beginning to get a sense of things as I SLOWLY get better.

Right, I'm guessing that you are expecting nice results after 10 shaves? I don't blade you but I would say, keep at it....

...If you are not experiencing any pain, cuts, nicks or anything that make you say 'oh no, that thing again', keep at it....

...I find the angle a bit high but it should give you an idea...

My expectations are pretty small right now: Shave one small, easy to reach areas reasonably well. Up until yesterday, no go with that, which is essentially the reason for this post.

You're getting further than me, for about the same 'blade time'. I bought a vintage here, found it vitrually unusable even after a good hone, then sold it and got a Dovo Special (bought and honed by Lynn Abrams), as I wasn't convinced the vintage blade was good enough. I was right, the Dovo is far better, but it's still hard to use....

...Admittedly, I'm not using it everyday, but that isn't an option for me. I'll keep the blade, but I don't think I'll become a fan.

I wonder about a new(er) blade as well, but I want to get past a couple of initial hurdles first and convince myself that I can maintain a blade.

UPDATE:
1) I actually did get a 'decent' shave yesterday over my whole face. No cuts, nicks, or razor burn. Not the best quality, but passable.
2) I later found that the razor was not really shave-ready, which tells me that because I still had better success, my technique must be getting slightly better. Who-hoo!
3) I will now have to concentrate on blade maintenance.

I'll now go for a decent strop. I also have a barber hone that I will try to figure out how to get into the rotation. I also have a balsa strip coated with Cr2O3 and Fe2O3 on each side, but I don't know if I need to go there yet.

I'll figure it out....

Thanks again.

 

[JeffE]

Woodash, my friend, you are putting a lot of time and effort into this, but if you don't mind some more unsolicited advice, here it is.

Don't bother with more honing or sharpening on a barber's hone. When you razor comes back from a honemeister, it should be VERY, VERY shave ready, and razors in this condition do NOT NEED TO SEE ANY HONING FOR MONTHS! Just good stropping is all you need for a very long time.

I don't want to impugn anyone's honing skills here, but can you just say whether you sent your razor for honing TO SOMEONE WHO REGULARLY OFFERS THESE SERVICES HERE OR AT STRAIGHT RAZOR PLACE? It's not that there's any magic to it, but the people who know how to hone and who offer their skills here are selling to a very knowledgable audience. Someone with less experience or who cannot hone well would not be able to offer the same services here without being discovered very quickly. If not, then maybe you need to get your razor to a proper honemeister.

Last, it is very, very rarely the fault of the razor, but I assume that you are not working with a razor that needed a major restoration or some *** Paki or Chinese razor, right? Because if you are, then just buy an off-the-shelf, run-of-the-mill, NEW Dovo or Thiers on one of the site you see advertised here. These are really very excellent razors, and you would find any one of them, properly sharpened, to be all you need for an excellent shave.

Hope this helps.

 

[Woodash]

Woodash, my friend, you are putting a lot of time and effort into this, but if you don't mind some more unsolicited advice, here it is.

Don't bother with more honing or sharpening on a barber's hone. When you razor comes back from a honemeister, it should be VERY, VERY shave ready, and razors in this condition do NOT NEED TO SEE ANY HONING FOR MONTHS! Just good stropping is all you need for a very long time.

I don't want to impugn anyone's honing skills here, but can you just say whether you sent your razor for honing TO SOMEONE WHO REGULARLY OFFERS THESE SERVICES HERE OR AT STRAIGHT RAZOR PLACE? It's not that there's any magic to it, but the people who know how to hone and who offer their skills here are selling to a very knowledgable audience. Someone with less experience or who cannot hone well would not be able to offer the same services here without being discovered very quickly. If not, then maybe you need to get your razor to a proper honemeister.

Last, it is very, very rarely the fault of the razor, but I assume that you are not working with a razor that needed a major restoration or some *** Paki or Chinese razor, right? Because if you are, then just buy an off-the-shelf, run-of-the-mill, NEW Dovo or Thiers on one of the site you see advertised here. These are really very excellent razors, and you would find any one of them, properly sharpened, to be all you need for an excellent shave.

Hope this helps.

JeffE -

Thanks for the info. Yes - I am putting some time and effort into this, and I'm happy to be doing so.

What I'm saying is that 1) I have confidence in the quality of the sharpness as I received the razor. I can't know for sure, but I trust this guy who sold it to me and have no reason to believe otherwise. To use your words: I did buy it 'from someone who regularly offers these services here or at Straight Razor Place'. As I said in the first post above, this isn't a *** razor that needs to be restored. It's a decent starter razor - no more, no less. 2) Right now, though, the razor does not pass the HHT (maybe I have tough hair ); I also have a tough time cleaning up just one small area of my face well. 3) It is quite possible that I may have degraded the blade somewhat due to poor stropping skills (on a cheap starter strop) and honing. I've tried to do things judiciously and according to published recommendations. Things seemed to go OK, but who knows what effect I might have had. If there is some degradation, I'd like to find out how to bring it back; I am inclined to think that it does not need to be re-honed right now. And finally, 4) it seems to me that there is a very wide range of published recommendations and procedures about how to maintain a blade - not just among general discussion from people of various levels of experience online, but also from more established sites. E.g., recommendations seem to vary a heckuva lot about when or how often to (use a barber) hone, whether to strop before or after shaving, when to go to or not go to Cr2O3, etc., etc. Your comment that a barber hone on a shave-ready razor is not needed for months is the first I've heard of such a thing. I have read and have been advised that it's OK to run ~5-6 laps on a barber hone much earlier if the razor starts to pull a bit.

So who knows. I'll figure it out eventually just like everyone else around here.

Once again, thanks for the info.

 

[IndieGamer]

One of the things I've had to learn and learn over and learn over is that at each step there is an incredible lightness of touch that becomes necessary at each step.

On of the problems is we expect to feel or hear results resulting in pressing down to make things work as we think they should work . . . . but no with a razor maybe not.

In honing . . . you may need to press a bit to remove a chip or set the blade angle but at each level of hone you need to be very very gentle before moving to the next finer hone.

In stropping . . . we go back and forth . . . what does it sound like . . . maybe I should press harder because it sounds like nothing is happening. . . .

well so far for me light . . . blade pressure . . . is working. I've pressed harder and had bad shaves. I've pressed and recovered by using blade pressure . . . and nirvana . . . great shaves. Maybe starting with some pressure and finishing light is good ( I do about 50 on both linen and leather before each shave . . . considerably more after I hone as I find the first couple of shaves after honing to be a bit harsh)

Now shaving . . . much the same . . . despite all I read and great advice here on B&B I was pressing . . . trying to make things happen. Even though my razor was sharp enough to get a close shave and I thought I was doing very well things took a quantum leap forward when I finally understood what I was trying to do . . . shave the beard off my face . . . not shave my face. So now in my mind I am trying only to touch the hair on my face without touching my face.

Mike

+1 for lightness of touch. I was so used to applying pressure (and getting away with it) with my M3 that I had to unlearn that habit. I did, and now get very good shaves in general. It has been days since I have needed any WH to calm the razor burn. Keep at it with a light touch and one day it should fall in place for you.

 

[ferroburak]

If you have the chance take one from a barber.

 

[Drubbing]

2) Right now, though, the razor does not pass the HHT (maybe I have tough hair ); I also have a tough time cleaning up just one small area of my face well. 3) It is quite possible that I may have degraded the blade somewhat due to poor stropping skills (on a cheap starter strop) and honing. Things seemed to go OK, but who knows what effect I might have had.

Forget the HHT, it doesn't work for me either. I'm stropping on a old soft piece of leather, because I'm too cheap to buy a strop yet. Despite my worst efforts, I haven't stuffed the edge. Yet.

Shaving with the damn thing is hard enough, without adding honing to the underdeveloped skillset. Once honed, it's ready.

From there, as with a DE, I firmly believe technique is king. Hence, my recent experience:

After all my whinging of late, I actually almost managed a complete pass today. Only patches of my chin and the upper lip refused to play. The only things that have changed for me is trying Chimensch's tip of stretching the skin after dabbing my fingers on a wet Alum block - this gives superb grip on just-shaved surfaces. By doing this, I shaved halfway down my neck. With ease.

I've also thrown caution to the wind (a bit). I'm shaving with confident, committed strokes, and allowing the blade to follow the contours of my neck more freely. By pretending that I actually know what I'm doing, I get the feeling it's only a matter of maintaining a good angle all over, to see some progress from here. Of course, this is harder to do than say.

 

[Woodash]

If you have the chance take one from a barber.

Good advice. Hard to to. I had a barber shave ~20 years ago. It's hard to find around h'yea nowadays.

...I'm shaving with confident, committed strokes, and allowing the blade to follow the contours of my neck more freely. By pretending that I actually know what I'm doing, I get the feeling it's only a matter of maintaining a good angle all over, to see some progress from here. Of course, this is harder to do than say.

Yep. Same here.

Thx.

 

[dmcconnell]

This may be too time consuming, but maybe you could fully shave at night with the straight to practice. Then in the morning do a quick touch up with the DE to be presentable. Just a thought.

+1 - This is what made the difference for me. I have about 3 months experience with straights and am using about 6x per week. I was frustrated in my first few weeks as the results were definately poor. Once I decided to set aside 30 to 60 minutes in the evening as much as possible (gave up some TV time) to learn the straight - I saw dramatic improvement. Previously, I was shaving with the straight only on the weekend and that wasn't enough commitment to get any better. This gave me the time to learn and perform careful XTG and ATG passes which make all the difference with my coarse whiskers. If I have to, I'll reshave in the morning with my Schick Quattro - this happens less and less (usually only if I have time for a single pass with my straight the previous evening). Anyway, give yourself to it for a month or two, don't worry about the results . . . yet. Consider it practice and trust me the breakthroughs will come and they feel great when they do.

 

[BEAR DEN]

At it for about a year and a half. At the start I tried and bought alot of str8s. I found that each str8 felt a bit different even if it was honed the same way. I was constantly tweeking them and using a different one every day.
The good part was that it was too much for me to take and that I had tried different steels, grinds and sizes. Since it was too much for me I whittled a 23 razor rotation down to 4 that I love and for the most part love me back. I experienced some differences and then.... I keep it as simple as I can.
I enjoy it more that way. I also understand that there are many here that would consider 23 razors as mere drop it the bucket...there was just too much for me to do to actually enjoy the shave. Try different razors, steels and grinds and if they don't suit you...YMMV and in the world of str8s it probabaly does.

 

[Disburden]

It can take up to a year to get awesome results from a straight razor. It took me six months of frustration to realize that 1) I was horrible at stropping, my wrist turned when only my fingers should've, this dulled razors. 2) I didn't know my face and the relationship between it and the razor well enough, 3) I didn't stretch right 4) I tried to hone and really messed things up but was in denial and didn't think so.

Now for the past three months I have been getting good shaves, my stropping is better thanks to Bart and other members in the forums, and my honing is awesome and I get killer edges.

 

[richmondesi]

Send me your razor if you want, and I'll fix you up

Just PM me, and I'll give you my address.

 

[Woodash]

Well - I lapped a few easy passes on an Fe2O3 pasted balsa board and went for it again. Today was much better. Did 3 passes and some touch up and came away with a better than decent shave. OK - so maybe now I feel like I could jump off the cliff (drop the DE) for a while to try to get better at this....

Next step: get a decent stop....

 

[Woodash]

Send me your razor if you want, and I'll fix you up

Just PM me, and I'll give you my address.

Oh - Hey man, thanks! Very kind of you. I should probably just assume that the razor is OK, but it's my touch up technique that is lacking. I probably need to learn about the razor/shave and what it feels like when it needs a touch up, etc. Let me keep after this another ~week or so and see what I can figure out.

I do appreciate your off very much.

Rgds,
Woodash

 

[richmondesi]

Oh - Hey man, thanks! Very kind of you. I would like to think that the razor is OK, but it's my touch up technique that is lacking. I probably need to learn about the razor/shave and what it feels like when it needs a touch up, etc. Let me keep after this another week or so and see what I can figure out.

I do appreciate your off very much.

Rgds,
Woodash

Sure thing. I posted that before you reported better success. If you send it to me, when you get it back, it will pass the HHT and every other test you might want to try. However, the tests are irrelevant for the needs of the end user. Anyway, best of luck. The offer stands if you need it

 

[Woodash]

Sure thing. I posted that before you reported better success. If you send it to me, when you get it back, it will pass the HHT and every other test you might want to try. However, the tests are irrelevant for the needs of the end user. Anyway, best of luck. The offer stands if you need it

Alright-Sounds good! I'll remember that.

 

[Klarion]

Oh - Hey man, thanks! Very kind of you. I should probably just assume that the razor is OK, but it's my touch up technique that is lacking. I probably need to learn about the razor/shave and what it feels like when it needs a touch up, etc. Let me keep after this another ~week or so and see what I can figure out.

I do appreciate your off very much.

Man, I'd definitely recommend taking up Paul's offer. I was one of the recipients of his free honing offer, and he put a wonderfully sharp and smooth edge on my little Genco that I sent. Even if your shaves are improving (however slowly) with a pasted strop, its edge isn't likely to be at its optimum sharpness.

 

[bluefoxicy]

In short, no matter what I do, I cannot get a finished shave even if I concentrate on just one simple area - e.g., right below the sideburns.
I sense that I would be happier using a slightly wider razor with a little more heft, and perhaps one with a more forgiving grind, but I don't know that any of these are the limiting factors here. I'm not crazy about the spike point, either.

Can you play piano? How about guitar?

If not, take a break and go back to the DE. Get $250 together and buy yourself an Ibanez RG low-end guitar and throw $150 at an epi Valve Jr. amp; or toss $300-ish at a nice Acoustic. Pay a tech $60 to set it up and put brand new strings on it... go with some DR steel strings for an electric, Tite-Fit mediums. Trust me on this. (note: a $600-range Paul Reed Smith SE would actually be about 10 times more awesome, in a Mazda vs Audi kind of way).

Then come back in 2 weeks and let us know if you can play Livin' on a Prayer, with the bass line and chords, and the solo (the solo's rather simple, it's easy, even for a beginner).

Then you will be enlightened. Enlightenment costs money, yes.

Aside, the spike point is probably not something you like. Please don't grind it off, so many old manufacture razors have the spike ground off. If it's a problem for you, you're doing something wrong; but if you're doing something wrong, the spike is going to be a lot worse than a round point, because you might stab yourself in the face with it and it's way easier to cut yourself with something pointy.

 

[Woodash]

Can you play piano? How about guitar?

If not, take a break and go back to the DE. Get $250 together and buy yourself an Ibanez RG low-end guitar and throw $150 at an epi Valve Jr. amp; or toss $300-ish at a nice Acoustic. Pay a tech $60 to set it up and put brand new strings on it... go with some DR steel strings for an electric, Tite-Fit mediums. Trust me on this. (note: a $600-range Paul Reed Smith SE would actually be about 10 times more awesome, in a Mazda vs Audi kind of way).

Then come back in 2 weeks and let us know if you can play Livin' on a Prayer, with the bass line and chords, and the solo (the solo's rather simple, it's easy, even for a beginner).

Then you will be enlightened. Enlightenment costs money, yes.

Aside, the spike point is probably not something you like. Please don't grind it off, so many old manufacture razors have the spike ground off. If it's a problem for you, you're doing something wrong; but if you're doing something wrong, the spike is going to be a lot worse than a round point, because you might stab yourself in the face with it and it's way easier to cut yourself with something pointy.

Thanks for the suggestion. Your analogy of playing music is interesting because it may well be that I have more money in the musical instruments sitting here in this room than many people make in a year.

I don't expect miracles, but slow and steady progress will get it. I do keep my guitars setup very well. Oh - and I prefer pure nickel strings - heavier gauge. Try the 'Pure Blues' if you like the DR brand....

The shaving is coming along better than I expected a few days ago, even for this beginner.