Tips on buying a new suit or two
- Thread starter corysold
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- #22
Www.danielgeorgecustomsuits.com
Here is the guy I found, there are many similar. It isn't truly bespoke as I understand the term, but I feel it would end up better than a tailored OTR choice.
I'm just a bit gunshy I guess. First time I bought suits was a Mens Wearhouse BOGo deal. They were ok, but the tailor wasn't great and I never loved them.
Second time I bought, I took to what was supposed to be a reputable tailor and she literally made them unwearable. So I have 1 bad and 1 meh experience with suit buying. I'd like to go for at least "good" this time! With The information provided, I think I will get at least that far.
Here is the guy I found, there are many similar. It isn't truly bespoke as I understand the term, but I feel it would end up better than a tailored OTR choice.
I'm just a bit gunshy I guess. First time I bought suits was a Mens Wearhouse BOGo deal. They were ok, but the tailor wasn't great and I never loved them.
Second time I bought, I took to what was supposed to be a reputable tailor and she literally made them unwearable. So I have 1 bad and 1 meh experience with suit buying. I'd like to go for at least "good" this time! With The information provided, I think I will get at least that far.
Sounds like the clothes are made elsewhere to me, like what was said already.
Ok, reasons? Made-to-measure provides most of the same advantages at 1/4 the cost or less. Everything I've seen about pricing on true bespoke suits puts them at $3,000-$10,000 or more. You're talking about multiple visits and fittings during the process. It's very intensive. Now, why is this worth it unless, as I said:
1) You have an odd body shape that makes MTM or OTR non-options
2) You have a large amount of disposable income and can afford to drop enough cash to buy a used car on what boils down to a "suiting experience".
Even a lot of quality MTM suits can be out of the price range of your upper-middle-income suit enthusiast (Figure $1,000/suit) if you try an get fancy with custom options.
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MTM and bespoke have basically zero in common. No matter what has been said, you are not going to get the same fit from MTM. It's a lot more than just getting the shoulder width right or the chest size. Getting the waist properly done, the sleeve diameter taper correct, sleeve pitch correct, plus about a thousand other things too numerous to mention. These things are readily apparent to anyone knowledgeable in what to look for. And this isn't even getting into specific creative ideas like array of fabric choices and detailing.
All that said, I'm not recommending it's right or not for anyone. That's up to the person and their goals and desires.
I'm just unequivocally rebutting that bespoke only offers advantages to odd body types or people with more money than sense, which is hideously bad advice.
I didn't say "more money than sense", I said "large amount of disposable income". For the vast majority of the population the MTM suit will be perfectly good and the finer details you mention can be adjusted by a tailor in person, or are marginal and probably not worth the extra $2,000-8,000+ unless (drum roll) you have a large amount of disposable income. Personally I'd love to have a bespoke suit made, I'm not knocking the process. I said the OP should not seek out bespoke, I didn't mean to say anyone although I guess it could read that way. Sending him down the bespoke money hole when his budget is $500 is just, as you put it, hideously bad advice.
EDIT:
To illustrate my point better: Would your average guy with a $5,000 suit budget and zero suits be better off with 1 bespoke suit, or 3-5 MTM suits + tailoring? I'd argue the latter. If you already have a decent suit arsenal and find yourself with $5,000 to drop on a suit, then bingo, might be worth looking at bespoke. I would absolutely qualify that person as someone with lots and lots of disposable income though.
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The quote above is pretty blanket and doesn't appear to single out the particular poster. And I specifically said I wasn't giving advice to the OP, so I don't see how it could be hideously bad.
But to the meat of the reply, no, an alterations tailor cannot adjust most of those things. It takes a tailor who can construct. They are very hard to find, mostly residing in firms that do bespoke work, and by the time you are done you've spent almost the same amount of money.
I'll just restate, I'm not recommending anything to anyone. There's a range of options to fit all budget and desires.
To the last bit, how you define discretionary income is relative. I'd buy the suit over a new big screen TV or new car. I'd also get the singel nice suit over several lesser ones. But that is just me and shouldn't be a guide to anyone.
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- #28
Can you explain your reasoning for that last bit Graham? That is a dilemma I have. Buy 1 of the nicest suit I could afford and add shirts ties for variety, or buy 2 lesser suits, which would offer more variety, but lower quality.
I tend to think at this point, after trying multiple low quality and not being happy, I'm thinking if trying 1 real quality suit and not caring if it I wear the same suit every Sunday.
I tend to think at this point, after trying multiple low quality and not being happy, I'm thinking if trying 1 real quality suit and not caring if it I wear the same suit every Sunday.
- Navy or medium to dark grey, solid or stripes. Do make sure it's wool.
- 2 or 3 button and cuff or no cuff is a personal preference, can't go wrong.
- I personally think tailoring is by far the most important aspect of wearing a suit. An expensive suit that doesn't fit looks as bad as a cheap suit. Most men tend to tailor their suits too large. I am not suggesting that the skin tight skinny jeans look is what you want, but an excessively baggy fit only makes a man look shorter and rounder. Slightly snug looks better than slightly loose.
- A pair of monk strap shoes in black or brown are always nice to add to any wardrobe.
- Pairing the right tie and shirt color/pattern combinations can drastically change the look of a suit . Invest a little it some options and you can make the same suit look very different and serve the role for several occasions.
- 2 or 3 button and cuff or no cuff is a personal preference, can't go wrong.
- I personally think tailoring is by far the most important aspect of wearing a suit. An expensive suit that doesn't fit looks as bad as a cheap suit. Most men tend to tailor their suits too large. I am not suggesting that the skin tight skinny jeans look is what you want, but an excessively baggy fit only makes a man look shorter and rounder. Slightly snug looks better than slightly loose.
- A pair of monk strap shoes in black or brown are always nice to add to any wardrobe.
- Pairing the right tie and shirt color/pattern combinations can drastically change the look of a suit . Invest a little it some options and you can make the same suit look very different and serve the role for several occasions.
I personally get more enjoyment and utility out of a nicer item. Plus the comfort, both mental and physical, of having it fit is priceless.
If you get a subdued navy or charcoal suit, you can make a million different looks out of shirts and ties. The suit isn't nearly as limiting as it may seem.
Again, to be clear, I wasn't saying your advice was bad, I was just using your words for another point. As for the blanket quote, you edited out the only time where I said one should unequivocally not buy bespoke, and that was referencing the OP.
I don't think we're disagreeing on a fundamental level, just on what will get most bang for one's buck. Discretionary income is relative. But at the same time I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that dropping 10-20% of the median US pre-tax annual household income on a single article of clothing can be defined as a special circumstance when talking about general clothing advice.
Again, to be clear, I wasn't giving advice.
The quote I listed is the exact quote I was responding to in post #20.
This a point that I think doesn't get stressed enough. Every suit thread here stresses how good proper fit looks, but a proper fitting suit is also comfortable. If a suit fits, one can wear it all day long and never feel uncomfortable.
I have a suspicion that the reason so many men hate wearing suits/ties is that they were uncomfortable, because it didn't fit.
This is spot on and I try and get this point across to my friends whenever it comes up. They can kind of get that suits can be comfortable, but there's this deep seated meme that ties squeeze your neck. In reality it's nearly always a too-small collar.
Graham is correct, no comparison between bespoke & mtm. Also a good tailor is very hard to find. If one can afford bespoke, you won't go back to anything less.
Fly to Shanghai and get a bunch of bespoke suits 
Ha. Now this is true. It's insane how many guys keep loosening their tie like it's gonna help too!
If you wear a suit a couple times a month, you really only need one suit. Heck, unless you wear a suit several times a week, you really only need one. Look at it this way ... does anyone give you grief for wearing the same black leather jacket every day? What about the same pair of blue jeans? Nah, nobody cares (as long as you wash the blue jeans occasionally.) There's no "need" for variety. Ditto with suits, really.
Get one.
Get a good one.
You will be happy. It will be the best you can afford, and it will fit well and feel comfortable to wear.
And yes, the too-small collar! Ugh!! I think most guys size their dress shirts the way I did originally: they get a dress shirt as a kid, which they wear to whatever "make your kid wear a shirt and tie" events their parents take them to, and they wear the same shirt until it is cuffs-halfway-to-the-elbow-face-turns-blue-if-collar-buttoned too small, and then Mum buys him another, bigger one (cuffs to the finger nails, and enough collar leeway to slip unwanted brussels sprouts down there at Xmas dinner without second though. He keeps that shirt until it, too, is cuffs-halfway-to-the-elbow-face-turns-blue-if-collar-buttoned too small, and the process repeats itself. At some point he stops growing just before the shirt reaches maximum "can't convince Mum to spring for another one" capacity, and he accepts that as "his" shirt size.
Go to a good national Suit store and buy one in Navy and Gray. I got a large collection since My late father in law wore one daily at his office. I rarely were one much anymore outside of Funerals and Weddings.
I'll add my thoughts, for what they're worth (2 cents, I've been told).
• Solid/sharkskin navy or darkish grey would be standard; grey giving arguably the most colour options for accessories
• Don't get hung up on fused/canvassed as you wear the suit very infrequently and, as such, a fused suit will continue to look crisp for basically all of eternity in your rotation. Also, don't even begin to care about super number or luxury tech fabrics.
• If you weren't aware that your suits were looking aged to begin with then I do not recommend MTM at any price as you're now relying on another's eye to fit you properly and that other eye is attached to salesperson on commission. In my experience they are not always the most reliable sources of information (blanket statement, I know).
• Make sure the shoulders and chest fit without breaking, divoting, or pulling.
• Jacket should bisect the body from the bottom of the collar to the floor, +/- a few cm
• With arms down naturally at the side, measuring from the end of the thumb to the jacket sleeve should be somewhere around 10-11cm (or showing about 1cm of shirt sleeve... which also must end around the break of the wrist).
• Collar rolls can be corrected so don't get hung up on them. If the roll extends beyond the width of the collar then shoulders need to be squared which can be a bit more tricky.
• If you're taking in side seams of a jacket then said jacket is too loose. Problem is that a size down may correct the midsection but shoulders/chest will be too small. Yes, you can alter side seams a little, but I would suggest looking at other forms to avoid jacket shape alterations.
• Side vents, 2 buttons (only do up top), notch lapel, and two flap side pockets with one chest welt are standard. Do not open side pockets as you'll have internal ones for storage. Chest should be opened if wearing pocket squares (which is always suggested).
• Trousers should not break on the back of shoe and should generally rest 1-2cm above the heel with minimal break in front. Cuffs are arguable but you might want to avoid for timelessness. Moreover, trousers should probably be flat front.
tl;dr - focus on fit over construction because a $100 well-fitting suit will look far nicer than a $4000 hot mess (Donald Trump comes to mind).
• Solid/sharkskin navy or darkish grey would be standard; grey giving arguably the most colour options for accessories
• Don't get hung up on fused/canvassed as you wear the suit very infrequently and, as such, a fused suit will continue to look crisp for basically all of eternity in your rotation. Also, don't even begin to care about super number or luxury tech fabrics.
• If you weren't aware that your suits were looking aged to begin with then I do not recommend MTM at any price as you're now relying on another's eye to fit you properly and that other eye is attached to salesperson on commission. In my experience they are not always the most reliable sources of information (blanket statement, I know).
• Make sure the shoulders and chest fit without breaking, divoting, or pulling.
• Jacket should bisect the body from the bottom of the collar to the floor, +/- a few cm
• With arms down naturally at the side, measuring from the end of the thumb to the jacket sleeve should be somewhere around 10-11cm (or showing about 1cm of shirt sleeve... which also must end around the break of the wrist).
• Collar rolls can be corrected so don't get hung up on them. If the roll extends beyond the width of the collar then shoulders need to be squared which can be a bit more tricky.
• If you're taking in side seams of a jacket then said jacket is too loose. Problem is that a size down may correct the midsection but shoulders/chest will be too small. Yes, you can alter side seams a little, but I would suggest looking at other forms to avoid jacket shape alterations.
• Side vents, 2 buttons (only do up top), notch lapel, and two flap side pockets with one chest welt are standard. Do not open side pockets as you'll have internal ones for storage. Chest should be opened if wearing pocket squares (which is always suggested).
• Trousers should not break on the back of shoe and should generally rest 1-2cm above the heel with minimal break in front. Cuffs are arguable but you might want to avoid for timelessness. Moreover, trousers should probably be flat front.
tl;dr - focus on fit over construction because a $100 well-fitting suit will look far nicer than a $4000 hot mess (Donald Trump comes to mind).
