... and feel ripped off in the process. That's certainly stupid money for a soap.I think it’s a great opportunity to learn a life lesson from first hand experience.
Sebum Gold. Worth it?
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I got called out for raising my eyebrows when a well respected member was selling his leftovers on the BST board earlier this year. The only thing sillier IMHO is spending hundreds of dollars on pre-used tub of this shaving cream. 
A good partner or spouse will set you straight; if you propose spending $350 on shaving cream that you have on your mug for about three minutes before washing it down the drain…but, but it’s “a great bespoke cream” famous last words before getting slapped with wifey’s common sense.
A good partner or spouse will set you straight; if you propose spending $350 on shaving cream that you have on your mug for about three minutes before washing it down the drain…but, but it’s “a great bespoke cream” famous last words before getting slapped with wifey’s common sense.
Took a look at the Sebum web site. $350 is just the basic package, there is also the deluxe for $700. The soap alone may not be worth that much as per their own web site you can by spares (Sebum Gold) for $75, a figure that is at the high end of the soap ranges often discussed that include the likes of MdC, etc. What they really appear to be selling at the $350-700 price point is an experience where the buyer gets to craft their own custom soaps via lots of consultations, testing of various scents/ingredients etc. Up to each individual to decide if this is really worth it. For me personally hundreds of dollars for shaving soap makes no sense.I got called out for raising my eyebrows when a well respected member was selling his leftovers on the BST board earlier this year. The only thing sillier IMHO is spending hundreds of dollars on pre-used tub of this shaving cream.
Also there seem to be some mixed views articulated in various posts regarding the quality of the final products that result from the experience. At these price points the products should be outstanding and the top of anyone's rotation. Saw one lightly used Sebum Gold for sale on BST that was not a good fit for the seller. YouTube video from a customer currently on the sebum web site touting the experience was interesting as this customer was shaving with the product while speaking and the lather created appeared visually to be very weak and see-through (big weeper on his chin during the shave). This was after over a minute and a half of loading the soap and generating lather (out of sight - can just see shoulder motion). Almost all the discussion of the custom experience focused on the scent.
The web site is worth a view as it's a nice execution of marketing theater. You don't purchase your soap and serum, you commission them. The $75 spare Sebum Gold appears to be a bargain after looking at all the $350+ packages. Surprising for a ultra-luxury positioned product that there is no guarantee of satisfaction. Instead there is a stark "all sales are final" message.
I personally find their marketing and website—as well as what people say about them—incredibly off-putting. I am not above splurging on high-end artisan products, but I just don’t like them, and I’m really not sure what their positioning is—except pure snob appeal.
At one point he was developing a soap for the “20 dollar crowd.” $20 is already a lot for a soap—and I have paid more—but way to alienate your core customers.
Hi CJB3, I can understand your perspective as well as those of @dmshaver . Have seen your posts regarding other hi-end shaving products and tools such as Varlet and see that you have a great understanding of the super premium end of the wet shaving market. My take above is looking at this from another angle focused on a more cut and dry assessment of the stated versus delivered product features/benefits.
My key point is that Sebum appears to be primarily focused on creating a lot of marketing theater focused on the customization experience (of primarily scent and packaging). It's actually surprising, for something at these pricing levels, that there is so little focus on the performance of the product including the lack of samples. Chances are any one commissioning a Sebum package is making the purchase for the experience and/or the bragging rights that go with it.
Additionally there is a lot of evidence in their web site, to your point on confusing positioning, that the core product may be, best case, no better than other, far less expensive, premium shaving soaps out there. For example, if one digs into the web site, the Sebum messaging focused on the product appears more concerned that the product will not be satisfactory to it's customers with its "All sales are Final" message and no guarantee of any satisfaction. Pretty amazing for something at this price point. The thin and watery lather, created in the web site promotional video, mentioned in my first post above, did not meet the promise of "our soap goes from brush loading paste to a slowly expanding dense lather" in their marketing messaging.
Combine this with all the mixed reviews out there and it becomes apparent that Sebum customers are likely paying for the consultative customization experience as there are many far less costly options with similar or even better core shaving performance. Another ad hoc piece of evidence is the recent Sebum Gold sale on the BST. It did not sell until the price was dropped to $40. Often the market tells us what something is worth. Would also agree to your point that for some the snob appeal of using a very expensive product is a factor in the purchasing decision.
For those of us who focus on product price vs. performance value this just makes no sense when there are so many excellent shaving soaps out there for a tiny fraction of the price. My direct experience is that for just a few dollars there are soaps that deliver excellent core shaving performance and for a few dollars more, say up to $10-15, shavers get an enhanced scent and improvements to post shave feel. At that point my sense is that we hit diminishing returns in core shaving performance for most shavers (YMMV as some of us have higher levels of sensitivity) though more premium products provide superior scents, packaging/artwork and post shave feel. All valid reasons for valuing these premium products per individual user preferences. With a few exceptions this range tops out at roughly $50-70 (e.g. MdC or SV) so to justify prices up to an order of magnitude beyond that Sebum had to literally go outside the soap box per the above.
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Very well said, sir! Thanks for your detailed response, and I find myself nodding in agreeement.
Do you have a link to the video? Would love to see it.
Process you described is not inconsistent with the market view noted above where the main differentiators for more premium shaving soaps include the scent, packaging/artwork and post shave feel so not surprised. Using bulk soap manufactured offsite is not necessarily a negative depending on how it is made/if it is correctly manufactured to the desired standards. Since SV emphasizes its various soap bases (e.g. 4.3) the bulk soap likely meets their standards. Do we know who manufactures the bulk soap noodles that you saw in the video?
From the SV web site: "The original process used to make the soaps would mix Mediterranean Sea water with olive oil and plant extracts together in a large heated cauldron. This mixture would then be stirred constantly for several days, then poured into a mold and left to set for up to a month. Today, we still produce our soaps using the same artisanal method." Implies whoever is making the bulk soap is following their specifications. Could also imply they are making it themselves but in a different location. Would want to confirm the accuracy of the video given the above.
SV runs at about $50 in the states from domestic retailers though we can acquire it from Connaught Shaving for 26.50 GBP or just over $30 U.S. making it an affordable luxury for many who prefer it. Of course we can land MWF and Tabac refill pucks for $6-7 U.S. from Connaught and those deliver excellent core shaving performance.
Interesting comparison to MdC that, per other B&Ber posts, has a bespoke soap manufacturing and aging process.
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They have deleted the video. If I recall, it clearly showed the soap noodles in large bags piled up!
Just google "soap noodles wholesale". That's the same as buying melt and pour soap and doctoring it up. I can also get Chamomile extract, Calendula extract, xanthan gum, and some glycerine. Hire a marketing team to write good copy and call it a day.
Yes, MDC seems to have a full operation, and their aging is very interesting. They're transparent about all this stuff. Their Instagram is full of clips of how they make their soaps.
Did a little more digging given the questions in my earlier post. My sense is that SV is the real deal producing its soaps on its own as follows:
SV appears to be a fairly large scale business with the ability to manufacture 2,500 tons of soap base per year according to their web site. Per the link below on their soap bases they appear to make their them available to other manufacturers. In fact, as you can see in the pictures, they offer both flakes and the soap noodles you saw in the video mentioned in your earlier post. They don't need to buy soap noodles for shaving soap, they most likely use the ones they make themselves. No doubt you did see a video of them using soap noodles. The soap noodles they make themselves.
It's also possible that the video you saw covered the larger business and not the artisan shaving soaps. Given the scale of their business with both retail and wholesale for a range of products from soap base through bath and body to shaving soap the latter may be a smaller part of the overall business. Likely worst case is they are using some of the soap bases they manufacture for their own shaving soaps, best case the video you saw focused on the larger part of their business with their premium shaving soaps produced through a much smaller scale batch process. Unclear because the soap bases offered on their web site don't exactly match up with the SV soap ingredients though they may keep certain proprietary soap based for exclusive use in their own products.
It's unlikely that a business of this size would risk its reputation by falsely claiming to make its soaps entirely on its own.
Regarding whether or not SV soap is worth the price that's up to each of us to determine per our personal preferences and YMMV. At $30-$50 per puck it is not cheap.
Links below to the relevant web pages.
@Marco, you are much more familiar with SV. Anything to add regarding the process used by SV to create its artisan shaving soaps? For full background see posts #28-30 in this thread.
SV Web page on available soap bases:
Soap Base – Saponificio Varesino Online Store - https://www.saponificiovaresino.com/svstore/en/pasta-base/
SV soap making page:
Soap and Tradition – Saponificio Varesino Online Store - https://www.saponificiovaresino.com/svstore/en/saponi-e-tradizione/
SV Private Label manufacturing Offerings:
Service for Companies – Saponificio Varesino Online Store
www.saponificiovaresino.com
Sir, SV keeps its manufacturing process top secret to avoid illegal counterfeit copies of their products. They don't even give percentages of how much of a given ingredient they use. Sorry, I have nothing else to add here, Sir.
Anyway, what really counts to me is that there is nothing equal on the market and their soaps are simply superior to any other, IMHO.
Interesting. I have always regarded SV highly and find the performance one of the best. I remember when they had only a few scents. I have yet to try the newer xx.xx formulas. Mine (3 of them) are 5-8 years old
Seems they stopped making soaps.
Yeah, I wonder why...
I think there are probably people out there making gold plated toilet seats for those who have everything. This soap seems to be a similar pointless concept.
I think these people have a personal barber and don't buy soaps
I tried maybe the wrong fragrance but it wasn't worth the price.
even if the problem wasn't the price .
it would be enough to buy one soap instead of 10 for 30/40 euros...
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