Subject line pretty much says it.
Lowest grit stone you can consistently get a shave-ready edge with?
- Thread starter Brassplyer
- Start date
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I can shave off my bevel setter if I’ve done my job correctly, but it is not comfortable. The lowest grit reasonably comfortable/ shaving edge is from the Shapton Glass 8k HC (High carbon). Otherwise 10k.
I rarely use synthetics for razors, I do all the work on natural stones. But if I do a synthetic progression, I am okay with 10 - 30k, depending on which synth stones I use and expectations from that edge.
8k fuji isn't too bad, just not as close as I'd like.
8k if I absolutely had to. Honestly it's not the worst thing in the world. Depends on the rock. Wouldn't off of my Norton.
The majority of synth users will probably average out to somewhere between 8k and 12k.
Many will use abrasive compounds after finishing on a stone, 30k Chromox for example. An 8k edge finished on Chromox is no longer an 8k edge. And which 8k was it? How well was the bevel set?
Grit is more of a theory. Different steel in different hands on different stones of the same grit will not all be the same.
Three different people honing the same razor on the same 4 stones will probably create 4 different edges and each person will have different opinions about each edge.
Sharpness is built long before finish.
And everyone is different in all regards, different razors, different skill sets, different stones, different preferences and expectations. A good number of people use naturals, and there really is no accurate or reliable 'grit' rating to be had there.
Sometimes people ask this question when they are trying to figure out what stones to buy.
There really is no one solid answer to bank on. There used to be soooo many 'do I really need a 12k questions' around.
No once can tell anyone else what they need.
I'd guess 99% of people who buy 1-8k stones wind up buying a 12k soon after.
Also, a lot of people chase finishing stones when what they really need to do is chase their bevel set work.
When someone asks me if they 'need' a 12k I tell them to buy it and see what they can do with it. If they insist on knowing if they need it before buying it I leave the conversation.
Many will use abrasive compounds after finishing on a stone, 30k Chromox for example. An 8k edge finished on Chromox is no longer an 8k edge. And which 8k was it? How well was the bevel set?
Grit is more of a theory. Different steel in different hands on different stones of the same grit will not all be the same.
Three different people honing the same razor on the same 4 stones will probably create 4 different edges and each person will have different opinions about each edge.
Sharpness is built long before finish.
And everyone is different in all regards, different razors, different skill sets, different stones, different preferences and expectations. A good number of people use naturals, and there really is no accurate or reliable 'grit' rating to be had there.
Sometimes people ask this question when they are trying to figure out what stones to buy.
There really is no one solid answer to bank on. There used to be soooo many 'do I really need a 12k questions' around.
No once can tell anyone else what they need.
I'd guess 99% of people who buy 1-8k stones wind up buying a 12k soon after.
Also, a lot of people chase finishing stones when what they really need to do is chase their bevel set work.
When someone asks me if they 'need' a 12k I tell them to buy it and see what they can do with it. If they insist on knowing if they need it before buying it I leave the conversation.
Just curious as to the motivation for the question?
As stated, you can shave off your bevel setter. If you have not tried it, I suggest it. It’s not a bad idea to shave off each step of your progression, that should answer your question. As for shave ready, it’s the most twisted term in the hobby, everyone has their own idea of it. Then there is comfort, that’s what I shoot for, and no synthetic gets me there.
I have also found value in shaving off edge after every synthetic stone on my progression. It gives a real sense of whether I’ve made any progress between stones, and if so, in what ways. Is it sharper? Does it tug less? Have I done all my work evenly heel to toe? Is it smoother on my face? What was the effect of stropping (I’ll sometimes shave the left half directly off the stone, then strop, then shave the right side).
I’ll tell you what. Doing that over the course of a week, stepping up one stone per day, will make you appreciate even a mediocre natural finisher for your Sunday shave.
I’ll tell you what. Doing that over the course of a week, stepping up one stone per day, will make you appreciate even a mediocre natural finisher for your Sunday shave.
- Thread starter
- #12
Curiosity. What else would you expect the motivation to be?
8k, or vintage 6k King stone. An edge does not get visibly straight until after an 8k. Compare a 6k and 8k bevel and edge.
The vintage King S-3, 6k were, I believe a blend of Jnat and synthetic and will polish to 8k level.
You can take a 1k edge to shaving level with a lot of stropping, some strops, e.g. flax linen are more micro abrasive.
A lot too, depends on what your skin can handle. For well over a hundred years folks shave off of Synthetic Barber Hones, most of which were likely in the 6k range, I suspect there was a lot of stropping involved and paste were much more popular than they are now.
Your basic Chrome Oxide is .50um about 20-30K.
The vintage King S-3, 6k were, I believe a blend of Jnat and synthetic and will polish to 8k level.
You can take a 1k edge to shaving level with a lot of stropping, some strops, e.g. flax linen are more micro abrasive.
A lot too, depends on what your skin can handle. For well over a hundred years folks shave off of Synthetic Barber Hones, most of which were likely in the 6k range, I suspect there was a lot of stropping involved and paste were much more popular than they are now.
Your basic Chrome Oxide is .50um about 20-30K.
Yes, I sure have. And as I recall it was actually a pretty good shave, too. Something very weird going on there with a well worn DMT320. Todd and I discussed it at a few different forums and via email. The edge looks a little ragged viewed from the side, but the apex is very narrow and keen. Sounds like something you'd be crazy to try, but I'll be darned if it didn't work.
Eh, everyone's face is different and opinions on what is a comfortable shave. I'm picky and really don't enjoy anything synthetic under 12k. I can shave with lower, but I hate it as well.
In the natural world eschers and slates have never given me edges I like. My favorite edge is from a really nice jnat, however not all jnats get the edge where I love it. Arks are probably my second favorite edge, and I find it a lot easier to get a good ark. Love my coticule edge, but it would take forever for me to find another one as good as my current.
Overall, lowest grit for me would be 12k synthetic or a very very nice coticule. If I were looking for a bare bones set up and starting from scratch I would buy an ark. If I didn't have enough money for an ark then I would just stick to shaving with a DE.
In the natural world eschers and slates have never given me edges I like. My favorite edge is from a really nice jnat, however not all jnats get the edge where I love it. Arks are probably my second favorite edge, and I find it a lot easier to get a good ark. Love my coticule edge, but it would take forever for me to find another one as good as my current.
Overall, lowest grit for me would be 12k synthetic or a very very nice coticule. If I were looking for a bare bones set up and starting from scratch I would buy an ark. If I didn't have enough money for an ark then I would just stick to shaving with a DE.
Different steel and steel hardness is also important.
To get a smooth edge on my CV Heljestrand or one of my TI razors I need a more refined edge then I need on one of my Böker razors.
Hard brittle steel needs a different edge then softer and more ductile materials.
My Hartsteel razors would not shave well off a 10k synthetic. A Böker razor shaves just fine at this grit level. It also seems to benefit more from the stropping.
To get a smooth edge on my CV Heljestrand or one of my TI razors I need a more refined edge then I need on one of my Böker razors.
Hard brittle steel needs a different edge then softer and more ductile materials.
My Hartsteel razors would not shave well off a 10k synthetic. A Böker razor shaves just fine at this grit level. It also seems to benefit more from the stropping.
Do I know what the rock is? No!
Do I care what the rock is? no!
What I do know, is, one rock, one razor, one strop, one man who last sharpened it in 1969.
54 years later in 2024, the edge is still untouched, this I do know because the last man to touch that edge died in Jan 1970. He was my father.
Just my take on the debate, you can do with what you have got, or a lack thereof
Do I care what the rock is? no!
What I do know, is, one rock, one razor, one strop, one man who last sharpened it in 1969.
54 years later in 2024, the edge is still untouched, this I do know because the last man to touch that edge died in Jan 1970. He was my father.
Just my take on the debate, you can do with what you have got, or a lack thereof
Shave ready as in you can shave and it's not torture? 220 grit DMT. 325, 220, maybe even the XXC (110?) Dmts can, when used a certain way, pull a shaveable edge. Didn't believe it myself till I tried it. But they're (the edges) not fun to use. (I see @eKretz is talking about this above... I think he's the one that got me to try it?)
Realistically? Somewhere between a 6k and 8k (JIS) an edge becomes "ok" for me... So I'd say 8k. But there is a noticeable improvement from 8k to 10k Jis stones... so you could argue for that. 10k to 12k becomes less obvious/more debatable to me... and at that point in synth refinement: the user (and stone composition, rather than "grit") is contributing more than stone's grit rating to the finishes; honestly.
Realistically? Somewhere between a 6k and 8k (JIS) an edge becomes "ok" for me... So I'd say 8k. But there is a noticeable improvement from 8k to 10k Jis stones... so you could argue for that. 10k to 12k becomes less obvious/more debatable to me... and at that point in synth refinement: the user (and stone composition, rather than "grit") is contributing more than stone's grit rating to the finishes; honestly.
I can shave off 8k, but I will not be happy. 12k.
