Long Time DE Shaver Needs New Blades - Sharp and Smooth

[Spy Car]

That would definitely be of interest.

To us both. I see on the Czech Blades website that, among their stainless steel blades, they offer both Tiger and Tatra blades in both Platinum and Superior. Is one brand in anyway distinguishable from the other? Or is it just branding? I'd like to know.

And they make a surprising number of carbon steel blades, under the Tatra, Tiger, Sokol, Leon, and Luxor brand names, many with sub-variants, so 11 different offerings in carbon steel alone.

I do have a pack of Tiger carbon steel blades in tomorrow's shipment.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

@cvac

So I've just had a very fascinating email exchange with the co-owner of Czech Blades, Milan Masa, who wrote a very warm, informative, and, extensive email in response to my queries, despite it being past 10 PM local time on his end. What a nice man!

Some of these things may deserve its own thread, but let me synopsize a few points.

The Czech Blades factory in Jevíček, Czechia used to produce Astra blades, up until 2008 when the production moved to Russia.

Mr Masa is very proud that his factory produces blades using 3-facet technology, as opposed to the "gothic grinding" used by Gillette with the Russian Astras. According to Masa with the 3-facet process one all the coatings and the sputtering (?) is applied on the edge "as was done in the old good times."

He says that their platinum coated blades really do have a platinum coating (like Gillettes, but unlike some blades which make false claims in that regard) and that they are really all stainless steel (unlike some cheap blades which make false claims about that as well).

Also, Tigers and Tatras are the same blades, as long as one compares Platinum to Platinum and Superior (chromium-plated) to Superior.

I think he was mildly concerned about my interest in shaving with their carbon steel blades (unless I really know what I'm getting into and am using old fashioned wet shaving prep) as their target market is mainly countries in the Middle East and Africa, where the carbon steel blades are popular for cutting thick/coarse hair and shaping eyebrows, not for shaving. LOL.

I'm so glad I wrote them. Mr Masa is an enthusiast who recognized a fellow enthusiast.

I'm really looking forward to trying their blades. USPS says "tomorrow," but I'm dubious given the tracking information. We will see.

Bill

 

[NorthernSoul]

For today's shave I decided to try the Personna Med Prep...Note that the "Personna Lab" blades come in the same type of wrapper and I'm not sure how different those are.

The Med Prep and Lab Blue are very similar, AFAIK the Med Preps go through some additional cleaning steps. The Lab Blues are quite a bit cheaper. Some people do claim the Med Preps perform better for them, though.

I know you are a "once and done" kind of shaver, but if you would relax your rule in the interest of experimentation, most people find the second shave is better than the first with these blades. They are "Comfort Coated" so they may effectively sharpen up after the first use.

 

[psfred]

This is an interesting thread. Please don't take my following comments as criticism!

I get a very large number of shaves on just about any blade, although some are better than others. My main criteria for "quality" is therefore the number of good shaves I get. I use a variety of razors, but have pretty much settled on FatBoys and Slims -- I like the weight, they can be adjusted to get good shaves with most blades, and I like stuff that lasts.

First, a little discussion of physics and materials science. Every blade has a bevel, and edge, and an angle of attack when used to cut (in this case, individual hairs), and the angle that cuts the best is called the "ideal angle". This angle is the angle of the blade body that holds the bottom (skin side) bevel of the edge just a couple degrees above flat on the skin so that when the edge cuts a hair the bottom bevel side does not stick to it (this is the clearance angle). True of ANY blade cutting anything by slicing -- wood plane blades, knives, you name it. The angle of the razor handle that generates the "ideal angle" at the skin level will depend on the actual sharpened and honed bevel angle of the edge and how much the razor bends the blade. Gillette Old Types have a fairly flat head with minor bending of the blade (since they were designed for blades 5 times as thick as modern ones) so the handle angle will be closer to perpendicular than with most modern razors which bend the blade a lot more. it is possible that cap thickness could prevent a razor being held at an angle that gives ideal cutting angle at the actual edge -- probably why Gillette reduced the cap thickness on Old Types as time went on (and for thin blades). Blade bevel angle is also different between brands, so some experimentation will be necessary to find the handle angle that works best for any given blade. Too steep and the blade will drag on the hair, causing pulling and sideways force on the edge which will degrade it faster. Too shallow and the blade will be "flying" above the skin and slice at an angle higher that perpendicular causing the "bottom" bevel to drag on the stubble while cutting the hairs above the skin.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a single non-adjustable razor, but doing so means it is necessary to find a blade that fits it well and fits a particular shaving technique. Blades vary in both grind angle and actual edge to edge width, and wide blade in a razor with a large blade exposure is gonna be very aggressive. Not a fault with the blade, just a mis-match with the razor. Weepers, nicks, and irritation are going to be common unless you shave like it's a straight razor with a sideways handle. Probably get more blade vibration too, which is also uncomfortable. Put it in a mild razor and suddenly it's a very well behaved, smooth blade.

On the other hand, a blade a little narrower in a mild razor is going to pull like crazy because the edge isn't in adequate contact with the skin, so instead of cutting the hair at close to the ideal cutting angle it's slicing above the skin at an acute angle, causing pulling and lack of a close shave.

It is possible to alter shaving angle to compensate for blade width variation, but you will be limited by the razor design, in particular for narrow blades. If the edge exposure is negative there is no way to get the edge in proper contact with the skin and almost any blade will pull. Very sharp well lubricated blades will be better, but ALL razor blades are very, very sharp (major differences are grind angle and polish of the cutting bevel and secondary/tertiary bevels, not so much actual edge sharpness).

The perception of blade sharpness is very highly dependent upon the friction between the blade and the hair as it's cut -- which is why blades are coated instead of plain stainless. All of the coatings are there to reduce the friction between the hair and the blade. PTFE wears off the fastest, usually around 5 shaves or so on a typical beard, and that is why blades feel "duller" after 5 shaves, not because the blade is dull but because the hair sticks to it more as the blade cuts. Platinum, chromium, titanium, and various ceramic coatings last longer because they are harder. None of that matters if you are not cutting the hairs at the "ideal angle" for cutting with the blade riding on the skin.

I prefer platinum coated blades (and note that it's perfectly legal to call a blade "platinum" with none on the edge!) because they feel better longer for me. Chrome helps too, but all of them feel different after a few shaves. Actually dull blades often don't feel all that tuggy, but I can shave and shave and shave and they don't remove the stubble. Derby's feel horrible from the start, and while they still give me good shaves I give up on them when I feel like I need both hands to drag the edge through my fairly light beard. Very nice shaves, just not worth the sensation of having my beard pulled out one hair at at time.

My point here, I suppose, is that a blade that feels "tuggy" might not be a dull blade or defective, just a mis-match with the razor and handle angle in use. I don't think it's proper to call that a "bad" blade because it doesn't give a smooth shave in a particular situation. I certainly won't be using any more Derbys, but I am going to try a Lord Rainbow this year in the "One Blade in Feb. Challenge because I want to use an adjustable razor this time. Other people find Derbys just fine after all!

I hope you find a nice blade that fits your razor and techinque. When everything works right, shaving is a pleasant experience. Not so much when things aren't working well!

 

[MHBru]

i am wrapping up that same journey.. for the same reason.. with my Nacet blades. The Gillette 7 oclock black (india) are quite nice. But the ones I found both sharp and smooth are Personnas... for my face the red wrapper that is now made in Germany is the best but I tried several and liked them all.

 

[cvac]

The Med Prep and Lab Blue are very similar, AFAIK the Med Preps go through some additional cleaning steps. The Lab Blues are quite a bit cheaper. Some people do claim the Med Preps perform better for them, though.

I know you are a "once and done" kind of shaver, but if you would relax your rule in the interest of experimentation, most people find the second shave is better than the first with these blades. They are "Comfort Coated" so they may effectively sharpen up after the first use.

I already tossed the blade so using it a second time is a no-go. I probably won't bother trying a #2 shave on any of these blades either, because even though I know coating removal will make the blade sharper, it's not going to make it more comfortable for me personally IME. I have never experienced that with any blade from any brand made anywhere.

There is a guy that did test the "Lab Blues" on multiple shaves, but I don't think he tested the "Med Prep". Now, to be fair, his test is probably way more thorough than anything I can manage since he has gear to test the objective sharpness of the blades after each use. I don't have that gear, so my thoughts on all this are 100% subjective.

Personna Comfort Coated “Lab Blue” Razor Blade Review

The Personna Comfort Coated Razor Blade, also referred to as a “Lab Blue”, is a very popular DE Razor Blade. It gets a little confusing when you start talking about Personna Blades. The…

www.refinedshave.com

Razor Blade Sharpness Testing

Razor Blade Sharpness Testing If you are only interested in the Razor Blade Sharpness Summary and already know how the testing works, click here to see summary tables. I have a background in Materi…

www.refinedshave.com

Apologies if you've seen these links already, but I think they might be helpful to anyone reading this thread. One thing: on his chart/ranking of blades you need to expand the view beyond "15" in the settings if you want to see all the blades he tested. Of course Feather were by far the sharpest out of the package and it didn't seem that close with any other blades this person tested.

 

[cvac]

This is an interesting thread. Please don't take my following comments as criticism!

I get a very large number of shaves on just about any blade, although some are better than others. My main criteria for "quality" is therefore the number of good shaves I get. I use a variety of razors, but have pretty much settled on FatBoys and Slims -- I like the weight, they can be adjusted to get good shaves with most blades, and I like stuff that lasts.

First, a little discussion of physics and materials science. Every blade has a bevel, and edge, and an angle of attack when used to cut (in this case, individual hairs), and the angle that cuts the best is called the "ideal angle". This angle is the angle of the blade body that holds the bottom (skin side) bevel of the edge just a couple degrees above flat on the skin so that when the edge cuts a hair the bottom bevel side does not stick to it (this is the clearance angle). True of ANY blade cutting anything by slicing -- wood plane blades, knives, you name it. The angle of the razor handle that generates the "ideal angle" at the skin level will depend on the actual sharpened and honed bevel angle of the edge and how much the razor bends the blade. Gillette Old Types have a fairly flat head with minor bending of the blade (since they were designed for blades 5 times as thick as modern ones) so the handle angle will be closer to perpendicular than with most modern razors which bend the blade a lot more. it is possible that cap thickness could prevent a razor being held at an angle that gives ideal cutting angle at the actual edge -- probably why Gillette reduced the cap thickness on Old Types as time went on (and for thin blades). Blade bevel angle is also different between brands, so some experimentation will be necessary to find the handle angle that works best for any given blade. Too steep and the blade will drag on the hair, causing pulling and sideways force on the edge which will degrade it faster. Too shallow and the blade will be "flying" above the skin and slice at an angle higher that perpendicular causing the "bottom" bevel to drag on the stubble while cutting the hairs above the skin.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a single non-adjustable razor, but doing so means it is necessary to find a blade that fits it well and fits a particular shaving technique. Blades vary in both grind angle and actual edge to edge width, and wide blade in a razor with a large blade exposure is gonna be very aggressive. Not a fault with the blade, just a mis-match with the razor. Weepers, nicks, and irritation are going to be common unless you shave like it's a straight razor with a sideways handle. Probably get more blade vibration too, which is also uncomfortable. Put it in a mild razor and suddenly it's a very well behaved, smooth blade.

On the other hand, a blade a little narrower in a mild razor is going to pull like crazy because the edge isn't in adequate contact with the skin, so instead of cutting the hair at close to the ideal cutting angle it's slicing above the skin at an acute angle, causing pulling and lack of a close shave.

It is possible to alter shaving angle to compensate for blade width variation, but you will be limited by the razor design, in particular for narrow blades. If the edge exposure is negative there is no way to get the edge in proper contact with the skin and almost any blade will pull. Very sharp well lubricated blades will be better, but ALL razor blades are very, very sharp (major differences are grind angle and polish of the cutting bevel and secondary/tertiary bevels, not so much actual edge sharpness).

The perception of blade sharpness is very highly dependent upon the friction between the blade and the hair as it's cut -- which is why blades are coated instead of plain stainless. All of the coatings are there to reduce the friction between the hair and the blade. PTFE wears off the fastest, usually around 5 shaves or so on a typical beard, and that is why blades feel "duller" after 5 shaves, not because the blade is dull but because the hair sticks to it more as the blade cuts. Platinum, chromium, titanium, and various ceramic coatings last longer because they are harder. None of that matters if you are not cutting the hairs at the "ideal angle" for cutting with the blade riding on the skin.

I prefer platinum coated blades (and note that it's perfectly legal to call a blade "platinum" with none on the edge!) because they feel better longer for me. Chrome helps too, but all of them feel different after a few shaves. Actually dull blades often don't feel all that tuggy, but I can shave and shave and shave and they don't remove the stubble. Derby's feel horrible from the start, and while they still give me good shaves I give up on them when I feel like I need both hands to drag the edge through my fairly light beard. Very nice shaves, just not worth the sensation of having my beard pulled out one hair at at time.

My point here, I suppose, is that a blade that feels "tuggy" might not be a dull blade or defective, just a mis-match with the razor and handle angle in use. I don't think it's proper to call that a "bad" blade because it doesn't give a smooth shave in a particular situation. I certainly won't be using any more Derbys, but I am going to try a Lord Rainbow this year in the "One Blade in Feb. Challenge because I want to use an adjustable razor this time. Other people find Derbys just fine after all!

I hope you find a nice blade that fits your razor and techinque. When everything works right, shaving is a pleasant experience. Not so much when things aren't working well!

I understand where you are coming from. The fact is, all these blades are not made in the same factories with the same gear, so the tolerances may be different. Different brands may use a different sharpening/grind method. I dunno if you remember the blade reviews one guy did on another forum many years ago, but he put each blade under a microscope. One could see, clear as day, that the edge grinds on various blades were not the same. Unfortunately all those photos are lost to time now, but they were very interesting.

All this is before we get to the different coatings, different sources/types of material used in DE, width of the blade, and so on.

Re: adjustable Gillettes, I have one, but rarely use it anymore. It was my first DE razor and is very sentimental to me. I still use it for traveling sometimes, but I've come to prefer a simple fixed gap 3 piece razor. That's just me. Nothing wrong with those old Gillettes - I think they are great razors. That goes for other models too like the Techs, Superspeeds, and so on.

Bottom line, I am a practical guy. I have to evaluate each blade according to the way I normally shave. Sharpness (which can be tested objectively) is one factor but not the only factor. See upthread.

FWIW very few blades I have used over the years "tugged". I can think of a couple examples, but those blades are probably entirely different today (one brand move to another country for manufacturing) so it doesn't matter.

 

[cvac]

For today's shave, I decided to use the Gillette 7 O'Clock Super Platinum. To avoid confusion between all the different 7OC blades, I have attached a picture. These blades are made in India and my pack is marked as having been assembled in 2020.

Thus far this blade is the closest to what I am used to after years of using the 7OC Sharp Edge. It is obviously not as sharp as a Feather but sharp enough and quite smooth. I will try a few more out of the 10 pack in the coming days to check consistency but this blade may be a contender to stock up on.

For today's shave I also used a Muhle STF brush for the first time which I will review separately.

SOTD:

• EJ DE89L
• 70C Super Platinum (India) blade
• Muhle STF "size large" brush
• TOBS old stearate formula Lavender hard soap
• Atkinsons for Gentlemen AS

 

[Spy Car]

For today's shave I decided to try a Tatra Platinum. These are made in the Czech Republic, and I don't remember trying any Czech blades over the years. Supposedly they are made in the same factory as Tiger blades, though Tatra is a apparently a newer brand with different marketing.

For this shave I dusted off my jar of Barbus cream soap and Barbus classic aftershave. IIRC these products are made in either the Czech Republic or Slovakia.

Anyway my impression of this blade was that it was among the smoothest I've tried. The factory may be using a thick coating on these to make the blade smoother. Not sure. Sharpness was about average and I had to do some touch up work around the mustache area. If the blade was just a little sharper it would be extremely impressive.

Now to be fair, my lather today was a bit thicker than normal as I haven't used this cream soap in awhile. I was able to thin it out for the second pass but there was a ton of residual soapy slickness. To get a fair impression of the blade, I will probably try another one out of the pack and use a traditional English soap or cream.

So I just had my first ever experience using a Czech-made Tatra Platinum blade. I LOVED it!

Just right for my face. These are very smooth blades. The coatings are both platinum and PTFE (Teflon) coatings on their blades.

We seem to have very similar tastes in what we like in a blade, and my conclusion (based off a singular shave) is that this was among the smoothest shaves ever. I can't think of a blade that's performed better in that regard. They've knocked it out of the park AFAIC.

I think I'd rate the sharpness more highly than you might.

Do you ever have one of those shaves that is so close and irritation-free that you can't keep you hands off your ultra-smooth face? I just did.

Never before have I ordered blades in bulk base on a singular shave, but I now have 200 on the way.

I'm so encouraged to find a new blade--one not made in Russia--that I enjoy this much. A first-class experience on my face.

I'm really looking forward to more Tatra Platinum shaves in the coming days.

Color me very impressed!

Bill

BTW, those searching on Amazon today may discover I bought up the currently available supply (oops!), but--as mentioned previously--the Czech-made Tiger Platinum blades are currently available for $9.99 and according to the company's co-owner the Tatra Platinum and the Tiger Platinum are exactly the same blade. Only the packaging/branding are different.

 

[psfred]

I've seen those before, but you must remember that blade shape (at the bevels) has a significant role in the pressure required to cut something. You can have a very, very sharp edge on a knife that won't cut carrots smoothly if the bevel is too fat behind the edge as the edge is very quickly behind the base of the crack the knive makes in the carrot as it's forced apart. Probably not a big issue in this testing, but the resistance of cutting something standing perpendicular to a surface with the blade at an angle close so where we shave would be more interesting I think.

The difference between a Feather and a Derby Extra is partially due to the fact that Feathers have a much longer, flatter bevel behind the edge than the shorter steeper bevels on a Derby.

Probably not much different though, and at least it's a standard test with a decent measurement rather than a perceived difference. And the results match up pretty well with my perceived results.

 

[cvac]

I've seen those before, but you must remember that blade shape (at the bevels) has a significant role in the pressure required to cut something. You can have a very, very sharp edge on a knife that won't cut carrots smoothly if the bevel is too fat behind the edge as the edge is very quickly behind the base of the crack the knive makes in the carrot as it's forced apart. Probably not a big issue in this testing, but the resistance of cutting something standing perpendicular to a surface with the blade at an angle close so where we shave would be more interesting I think.

The difference between a Feather and a Derby Extra is partially due to the fact that Feathers have a much longer, flatter bevel behind the edge than the shorter steeper bevels on a Derby.

Probably not much different though, and at least it's a standard test with a decent measurement rather than a perceived difference. And the results match up pretty well with my perceived results.

I would love to see a very controlled, comprehensive study on blades with different types of objective testing, microscope photos and the works. If you have suggestions maybe contacted the RS guy. That said I doubt if the time, will, and money is there to do a real comprehensive study.

In general people seem to be a lot more interested in the latest Ali Express low-end shave gear, whatever artisan soap wacky scent is trendy this month, very expensive CNC'd razors, and so on as opposed to detailed info about DE blades.

Again I'm a practical guy. Either a blade works for me or it doesn't. I tried the Derby Extras many years ago and thought they sucked. The Derby Premiums I tried recently were a very average at best blade for me and were easily eliminated from consideration.

 

[Bosh Hog]

It´s Nacet for me.

 

[cvac]

It´s Nacet for me.

Not using Russian blades anymore.

 

[cvac]

For today's shave I decided to try a Kai blade. These are made in Japan and are supposedly a hair wider than most DE blades.

My impression is that this is a blade of somewhat average sharpness. The cutting was not as effortless as with better blades but was very smooth during the shave and generally irritation free. I would guess these blades have a good coating on them. Overall a very decent blade IMHO, though I am not impressed enough with this blade to make it a top contender. Also, given that the supply of these blades may be drying up soon I don't want to switch to them and then have them become unavailable in 6 months or a year.

SOTD:

• EJ DE89L
• KAI blade
• Muhle "large" STF brush
• DR Harris Rose SC
• Saint Charles Bulgarian Lavender AS
• GFT Coral Skin Food

 

[cvac]

Summary of blades on deck for this process and where things stand now:

• Feather (used two, top contender)
• Tatra Platinum (used one, will try another)
• Kai - ELIMINATED
• 7 O'clock Super Platinum (India) (possible contender)
• Wilkinson Sword (Germany)
• Personna Platinum (Germany) - ELIMINATED
• Bolzano (Egypt) - ELIMINATED
• Derby Premium - ELIMINATED
• BIC Chrome Platinum (tried two so far, probably going to be eliminated)
• Personna Med Prep (USA) (used one, will try another)

 

[Spy Car]

I used a second Tartra Platinum today on its (2) second shave.

Today, like the first time I used it and had an extraordinary shave, I loaded the Tatra into a Game Changer .84-P. and had an extraordinary shave.

I also--critically--did extra-good prep before the shave (the results of which can not be discounted to the shave quality), but tonight I have another shave that has me stroking my face and thinking: Smooth!

I can't give all the credit to the blade. Really good prep was the most critical factor.

But the Tatra held ups its end. These are smooth on my face and sharp in a good way.

Good thing I like them, as my Amazon driver just dropped off a package of 200. LOL

Bill

 

[cvac]

For yesterday's shave I decided to try a Tatra Platinum blade for the second time. To recap, I don't reuse DE blades, so each time I am using a brand new blade out of the package.

My impression of this blade today is that it is a good blade. It cuts easily and is very smooth. No irritation. I will probably try one more out of the pack before I make a final decision about it.

SOTD:

• EJ DE89L,
• Tatra blade,
• Fitjar Mint Condition Cream,
• Pitralon Classic AS

One thing I'm going to start paying attention to is how my face feels several hours after the shave. My last shave with the Kai blade left my face feeling a bit dry and irritated later in the day. No irritation during the shave but it became a problem later.

 

[Frito Ray]

I used a second Tartra Platinum…had an extraordinary shave…

… I decided to try a Tatra Platinum blade for the second time… To is very smooth. No irritation…

Do you guys have breads that grow at an angle close to parallel to the skin?

My beard grows close to parallel to the skin, and of the dozen or so popular brands of blades I’ve tried over the years, Tiger Platinums (identical to Tatara Platinums) are my first and only smooth blades. Yes, they don’t last quite as long but they are so much more comfortable.

Just wondering if beard growth angle could be a reason why some guys love Tiger/Tatras and others (a lot) don’t.

 

[cvac]

Do you guys have breads that grow at an angle close to parallel to the skin?

My beard grows close to parallel to the skin, and of the dozen or so popular brands of blades I’ve tried over the years, Tiger Platinums (identical to Tatara Platinums) are my first and only smooth blades. Yes, they don’t last quite as long but they are so much more comfortable.

Just wondering if beard growth angle could be a reason why some guys love Tiger/Tatras and others (a lot) don’t.

It really depends on what area of my face you're talking about!

 

[Spy Car]

Do you guys have breads that grow at an angle close to parallel to the skin?

My beard grows close to parallel to the skin, and of the dozen or so popular brands of blades I’ve tried over the years, Tiger Platinums (identical to Tatara Platinums) are my first and only smooth blades. Yes, they don’t last quite as long but they are so much more comfortable.

Just wondering if beard growth angle could be a reason why some guys love Tiger/Tatras and others (a lot) don’t.

Not sure about beard growing parallel to my skin, but where my medium density (but toughened with age) beard is the trickiest is in my goatee area, where the "grain map" sort of breaks down, with hair growing every which way. The whole area puts a blade to "the test."

If I can get out with a super close shave with little or no irritation, I'm good.

While I tend to scoff at "magic combos," the two shaves I've had with a Tatra Platinum in a RR Game Changer .84-P have been exceptionally fine. Yesterday's definitely benefited from extra-good prep. The "prep" probably deserves big credit for that.

Bill