Les Lat/hybrid Jnat edge?

[Gamma]

Hybrid is my favorite Coti so far. Has been since I sold my striped Dressante bout to Neurotopia.

Why? I prefer hard stones that look good. Can't beat a LL there.
Next to a LL - a Verte - can be as hard, just not as brittle, but never as good looking.
Had one - was too big and I sold it. I don't like really big Cotis for some reason. But that stone and the others like it were faves of mine for a long while - still are. Just don't see them any more.
Are they better stones? I wouldn't say so. I just like them more because I jive well with them.

People have been claiming one thing or another about Cotis for a looooong time.
All I know is that every one I've picked up has worked very well.

Personally - I tend to avoid formulating my opinions based on forum rhetoric.

 

[Brianskeet]

If what Im reading in posts is correct it seems like there is an overwhelming amount of cotis out there that dont produce. Not lots of jnats, eschers or thuris, but coticules. You yourself have said you use the LLH when you use one. Is it a better match for you as well? And the cnats are notoriously inconsistent as well. Ive had 2, bought different times, they were twin duds. I dont have the heart to sell it as it aggravates me. I may drill it and soak it and watch it explode when it freezes outside this winter like I did to the king 1k. LOL

I don't think it is the case that they don't produce. They don't produce what everyone wants which differing personal tastes makes impossible. My most mellow coti stones produce a shaving edge that is friendly, tug free and very comforting to shave with. Like driving my old truck; easy, comfortable, gets the job done every single time. Now my most brisk coti is more like driving my SS Camaro. High horsepower and fun, but not without some danger. I think I could nearly shave drunk with a mellow coti edge. They literally feel forgiving. Now I will absolutely agree that not everyone likes this edge. Some positively dislike it! For the no such thing as to sharp crowd they will only be satisfied by an edge finished on 30K synthetic and pasted on a .001 micron poly diamond CBN mix. While I would really love producing that edge, I don't want to touch my alum block to my face after I shave with it. There is a big block of us that like coti edges, but there is no doubt a big block that do not as well. When I am done with a coti edge shave I have a smooth face and I can slap the aftershave on with no burn at all. I think you made the perfect choice in picking out a good sized LV hone. They have a long historical reputation as being among the best for razor honing. The one documented certain LV I have gives engaging edges just short of brisk and I suspect that with more razors across it it will give brisk. Try it out and in the end if it doesn't give you edges you like it may be the case that you are not a coti guy.

 

[Brianskeet]

Don't blow your others up. Send them to me instead.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Those 3 stones on the left aside, every coti edge I've gotten from maybe 35 coticules (minus the 10" freak stone) was comparable. I certainly couldn't distinguish them.

That said, the Ardennes stones I've gotten in the past year (3 of them), are the three hardest coticules to finish on I've owned (again, ignoring that 10" stone). They require a light touch that past coticules (even from the same veins) simply didn't. In use, the surface of these recent stones just plain feel like the garnets in them are either larger or a larger portion of them are sticking from the surface. The stone just generally feels coarser on water. However, with care and that light touch I wind up at the same coticule edge I'm familiar with.

Now, I won't say all coticule stones produce edges which are exactly the same, but they don't seem any more disparate than Thuringian edges (assuming we eliminate all the "Thuringians" in quotes), and they seem significantly more consistent than Cnat and Charnley stones in my experience.

I think it's reasonable to compare them to Thuri's here, where coti veins are thuri colors. There may be some conclusions drawn based on overly small sample size studies (Y/G are the finest!), but in the end what is more reliable are the differences that are less quantifiable; such as feedback, ease of raising lather, how soft, hard, brittle, etc it is. The coti community seems to have pretty reasonable expectations and categorizing of things based on veins. The premium for hybrids is understandable, as is the premium on LV's for anyone who's used one. For the most part these things make sense and exist without people feeling the need to believe that Les Lat's or LV's or Dressantes or whatever are the "finest" unless I've missed that idea being broadly put forth (I haven't really followed the current hype in coticules for a few years).

 

[Gamma]

Ian - Brian;
Great observations and summations. Ty.

 

[HonerSimpson]

...
That said, the Ardennes stones I've gotten in the past year (3 of them), are the three hardest coticules to finish on I've owned (again, ignoring that 10" stone). They require a light touch that past coticules (even from the same veins) simply didn't. In use, the surface of these recent stones just plain feel like the garnets in them are either larger or a larger portion of them are sticking from the surface. The stone just generally feels coarser on water. However, with care and that light touch I wind up at the same coticule edge I'm familiar with.
....

Something I have observed with a couple of Coticules that are hard and fast/coarse on water is that the coarseness is much greater after lapping and recedes with use. I no longer lap those stones, just raise slurry by rubbing with another full size stone instead of a slurry stone. (I picked this up from Emmanuel who did this instead of lapping).

My imagination suspects there are larger inclusions (probably silica, for the sake of argument) that provide overall hardness without being abrasive, once they are smooth. Lapping with the Atoma roughens the surface of those inclusions and honing eventually smooths them out.

 

[Brianskeet]

Something I have observed with a couple of Coticules that are hard and fast/coarse on water is that the coarseness is much greater after lapping and recedes with use. I no longer lap those stones, just raise slurry by rubbing with another full size stone instead of a slurry stone. (I picked this up from Emmanuel who did this instead of lapping).

My imagination suspects there are larger inclusions (probably silica, for the sake of argument) that provide overall hardness without being abrasive, once they are smooth. Lapping with the Atoma roughens the surface of those inclusions and honing eventually smooths them out.

I do a progression when I lap and don't call it done till I finish lap with 2000 grit wet dry and then slurry the stone heavily to achieve the final finish. Many say my OCD is totally unnecessary, but I like the results. Once lapped initially, proceeding through the grits to 2000 is very quick. Then any time I suspect the stone needs re-lapped I can usually touch it up using only the 2000 to conserve rock.