+1 but: the court may reschedule if the officer doesn't show up - how many days off is this worth to you?
I got some traffic tickets.
- Thread starter dpm802
- Start date
+1 but: the court may reschedule if the officer doesn't show up - how many days off is this worth to you?
The officer probably gets overtime to show for court, I doubt he'll skip out on time and a half.
Make sure you understand court procedure before you go in and represent yourself and "grill the cop". Cops are trained and experienced at testifying. I have never seen anyone win when they represent themself. If it's worth showing up to contest then hire a lawyer. It's not like on television.
As far as the officer showing up to court does not come down to whether or not he wants to collect his overtime. Cops receive a subpoena to show up for your court date. A subpoena is a court order to appear. If I fail to show up for court I get in trouble with the department. After all, why charge someone if you are not going to show up.
Yes, tickets are about money. Government agencies are hurting like everyone else and, in my department, we get disciplined for not meeting "performance standards"(quotas). I really don't like to write tickets unless they are well deserved. In my opinion, you got hammered on your ticket.
Our city attorneys are pretty nice people and they will make a deal if you ask them for one. Your driving history does make a difference. See if you can talk to a city attorney, in advance, and see if they will offer you a plea bargain. The worst they will say is "no".
As far as the officer showing up to court does not come down to whether or not he wants to collect his overtime. Cops receive a subpoena to show up for your court date. A subpoena is a court order to appear. If I fail to show up for court I get in trouble with the department. After all, why charge someone if you are not going to show up.
Yes, tickets are about money. Government agencies are hurting like everyone else and, in my department, we get disciplined for not meeting "performance standards"(quotas). I really don't like to write tickets unless they are well deserved. In my opinion, you got hammered on your ticket.
Our city attorneys are pretty nice people and they will make a deal if you ask them for one. Your driving history does make a difference. See if you can talk to a city attorney, in advance, and see if they will offer you a plea bargain. The worst they will say is "no".
- Thread starter
- #44
For the moving offenses, each ticket is a max of 2 points.
Paying the fine does not guarantee I will get the points. That's not up to the judge. Points are assigned by the DMV.
What will it do to my insurance? I'm not sure, I haven't researched that yet. I don't think there's a good outcome. My policy may have some "forgiveness" factor built in, I'm not sure. If it does, it probably means I'm already paying jacked-up rates even with a clean license.
In NJ, we have a policy of building up "Good Points" ... these will cancel out any points received, but I'm not sure if they are applied retro-actively.
Failure to produce ... you would have to check the local law carefully ... "knowing the number" is probably not the same as actually handing over a physical document, which would have a photo of you, &c. If you get a sympathetic judge maybe you beat it.
Illegal right ... if an attentive and alert driver would not have seen the sign while approaching the intersection, that might be worth having a go at.
Careless driving ... sounds like the cop already cut you some slack. You know he'll tell the judge all about it, and the judge won't be impressed with you trying to weasel out of a bargain.
I would pay the careless driving one for sure, so it doesn't end up anywhere near the judge who hears your case ... if you decide to fight one or both of the others. I really don't know about the failure to produce ... given the right set of law and judge, I could see a situation where it doesn't matter if you can recite your licence number, the Gettysburg Address, and the whole of the "Modern Major General" song from Pirates of Penzance ... if yo don't hand over your Licence, you are screwed. If that's the case ... fighting an $85 ticket ... that's all that's left ... seems pointless.
Maybe that's what the cops count on ... that taking a $300 day off work isn't worth it for a day in court to fight an $85 ticket ... then again, most guys who fight the tickets are just hoping the cop is too busy to show up. Everyone's playing chicken.
Seeing how quotas are illegal (unconstitutional) your department is taking a big risk by requiring this. They CAN require you (as mine did) to make an average of so many traffic stops per shift but they CANNOT require a certain outcome with rare exceptions. There is an agency down here that is being investigated right now for having quotas on number of tickets written. Somebody blew the whistle because officers were being disciplined if they didn't meet their quota.
- Thread starter
- #47
This is probably one of the most useful pieces of advice to come out of this thread.
I was probably going to plead guilty to that one anyway, but paying it ahead of time is a great idea.
It will remove a major stress factor, and hopefully tip the scales of justice back in my favor when I do go to court.
We have had this debate and I would be curious to know where it is stated as being unconstitutional. I know a deputy from another agency who was unable to find it anywhere. Like I said, I'm not a big on writing tickets unless they really earn it. PM me if you can point me in the right direction.
Let me introduce you to a little phrase that management like to use:
"It isn't required, but it's expected."
This is actually a great question you have posed because I was told by a couple of my FTO's that quotas were deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. I know it's a precedent set somewhere and it's a ways back, you've got the detective in me interested now and i'm going to research and ask around now until I find it.
If im not guilty, i would fight it, i would even go as far as asking the officer for a Recent medical Eye Exam, and the Failure to Produce a drives license, well the law states you must have one to drive and you do, all you are guilty of is of forgetting your wallet at home, Nothing more, You are human and it Happens, Now if the Turning Sign is Behind you that's an easy win, as far as 44mph on a 25MPH ask for his most recent update on speed training and speed gun calibration, if he said he doesn't have it, ask him why? when he says he forgot, you look at the judge and say, you mean you forgot it like i forgot my Wallet 
But seriously if you don't feel comfortable shop around a lawyer usually will take all 3 tickets for a much cheaper price then what you would pay, and lawyers are smart, they postpone and postpone , till the officer doesn't show up, or sometimes if your lucky he transferred, etc, etc. My Lawyer got mine dismissed 2 years later by doing that here in NYC, if i would of paid, tickets would of been like 350+ Court Fee's Yes Court Fee's Even our own government and state are in on Crooked Fee's, and after paying 350 + Fees, My Insurance Company would have Raised me $333.00 a year for almost five years or Drop me, because of the points, So don't pay it if you are going to get points on your license, otherwise your insurance Co. will have a Field day with your Policy.. Just shop around for a lawyer, there pretty cheap and decently priced.
I learned my Lesson, I always have Donuts and Coffee In My Car just in case i get pulled over
But seriously if you don't feel comfortable shop around a lawyer usually will take all 3 tickets for a much cheaper price then what you would pay, and lawyers are smart, they postpone and postpone , till the officer doesn't show up, or sometimes if your lucky he transferred, etc, etc. My Lawyer got mine dismissed 2 years later by doing that here in NYC, if i would of paid, tickets would of been like 350+ Court Fee's Yes Court Fee's Even our own government and state are in on Crooked Fee's, and after paying 350 + Fees, My Insurance Company would have Raised me $333.00 a year for almost five years or Drop me, because of the points, So don't pay it if you are going to get points on your license, otherwise your insurance Co. will have a Field day with your Policy.. Just shop around for a lawyer, there pretty cheap and decently priced.
I learned my Lesson, I always have Donuts and Coffee In My Car just in case i get pulled over
Hire the lawyer.
Think of this as a random tax. They just want your money. It is a racket. The lawyer route will cost you about what it will cost you to just pay the fines. Paying the lawyer is your ticket to avoiding points. It is corrupt, but that is how it works. Also, the court system is designed to process people inconveniently. You will have a relatively unpleasant experience waiting around for your court appearance. You don't know what to expect, or the ground rules, where to stand, and who has what you want. The lawyer does know all these things.
I have done this in person a couple of times, but have learned that it would be better to let some else pay my court costs and fines (street taxes), and get my stoplight violation reduced to improper equipment. Does that tell you how much integrity these people have?
Think of this as a random tax. They just want your money. It is a racket. The lawyer route will cost you about what it will cost you to just pay the fines. Paying the lawyer is your ticket to avoiding points. It is corrupt, but that is how it works. Also, the court system is designed to process people inconveniently. You will have a relatively unpleasant experience waiting around for your court appearance. You don't know what to expect, or the ground rules, where to stand, and who has what you want. The lawyer does know all these things.
I have done this in person a couple of times, but have learned that it would be better to let some else pay my court costs and fines (street taxes), and get my stoplight violation reduced to improper equipment. Does that tell you how much integrity these people have?
If it were me, I'd hire the attorney. A co-worker was in the same situation( 3 tickets, same time period).
She chose to pay the fines.
When all of her points came in that she was charged with, she ended up with too many after taking the defensive driving class. As a result, she was terminated-county insurance refused to cover her and the possibility of transporting a client is part of the job.
She had worked for the county 3 days short of 10 years.
having an attorney gives you a fighting chance-especially with your clean driving record, the fact that the intersection is notorious, and you do have a current drivers license. More than likely, you'll pay fines, but keeping points off of your record is worth the attorney.
marty
She chose to pay the fines.
When all of her points came in that she was charged with, she ended up with too many after taking the defensive driving class. As a result, she was terminated-county insurance refused to cover her and the possibility of transporting a client is part of the job.
She had worked for the county 3 days short of 10 years.
having an attorney gives you a fighting chance-especially with your clean driving record, the fact that the intersection is notorious, and you do have a current drivers license. More than likely, you'll pay fines, but keeping points off of your record is worth the attorney.
marty
Think of it this way -- an attorney WILL plead down the charges or make them go away. You MAY be able to plead them down, depending on a lot of variables (the judge's mood, how you behave, whether the cop shows up).
New Jersey? Did you see the news article about the increase in tickets being issued by local municipalities? There's also a link with the number of tickets by town.
I am probably the one guilty of starting this ticket quota debate but let's not hijack the thread with a quotas discussion. I have taken my conversation on this to PM's so let's all do that if we want to debate the quotas issue.
My apologies David.
- Thread starter
- #59
Thanks for the link ... the article covers Central NJ. I'm in the Northernmost part of South Jersey, and the township that wrote my tickets is not on the list.
BUT, that doesn't mean this area isn't going through the same thing ... it just means they haven't written an article about it. At least not yet.
NJ is different from most states. You can talk to the prosecutor before the trial actually starts and sometimes talk down the infractions to avoid insurance points. But like any other places, they just want their money. Sent you a PM, hope I can help.
