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How to sharpen a knife

ouch-

so if i went against your better judgement (i am stubborn sometimes) and went for a single bevel knife, would that korin (i read they are made for them by suisin) that you have pictured be a nice start? shiro-ko kasumi kamagata usuba (that is a mouthful) is primarily a veggie knife? i realize it is a carbon blade and that i will have to take adequate care so it doesnt rust.

next month during their sale i will get a couple of knives, i am leaning towards a tojiro dp petty (stainless double bevel) and this shiro-ko usuba.

part of the appeal is different metals and different sharpening techniques. i have a bit of a thing for sharp metal objects :) . chisels and plane irons started all of this.

cheers,
ryan

I do not have nearly the knowledge that Ouch has on this subject, but I heartily endorse his recommendations on starting off with a double-bevel Japanese knife - I have the Tojiros that Ouch referred to above (I bought them on his recommendation) and they are truly amazing knives for the price.

Unless you simply want a single-bevel blade for the challenge of learning how to sharpen one (which I certainly can understand), you should assess your kitchen knife needs - most Japanes knives (except the heavy-bladed ones) are designed for slicing - this is especially the case with the single-bevel blades. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but for most folks a double-bevel knife will be more useful in a western kitchen and make a better introduction to Japanese knives than a single-bevel knife. On the other hand, if you have a few good all-purpose knives and really want to play with a single-bevel, that's a different story than if you're looking for a knife for everyday use.

My $0.02.
 
'Unless you simply want a single-bevel blade for the challenge of learning how to sharpen one...'

in a nutshell--yup!

i might end up getting a couple of the tojiro dps and that korin shiro-ko. i have been long over due for kitchen knives. i have everything that i need to keep them sharp, well, except the experience. got to start somewhere.

which ones did you get, chris? have they replaced your other kitchen knives?

cheers,
ryan
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
Ryan, I have the kamagata usuba, and it's a good, inexpensive choice for your first try at a traditional Japanese knife. It may lack the level of finish of the higher end examples, but it will give you a good piece of white steel to work with.

The good news is that although you'll need to adapt your technique in terms of using the knife, when it comes to sharpening it you'll find it to be easier to sharpen than a double bevel knife. You'll have no trouble finding the bevel, as it's an inch wide!
 
'...it's a good, inexpensive choice...'

perfect! that is exactly what i am aiming for. looking forward to trying out the white steel on a single bevel knife.

after being use to chisels, plane irons and razors my kitchen knives just feel dull.

cheers and thanks again guys!
ryan
 
in a nutshell--yup!

i might end up getting a couple of the tojiro dps and that korin shiro-ko. i have been long over due for kitchen knives. i have everything that i need to keep them sharp, well, except the experience. got to start somewhere.

which ones did you get, chris? have they replaced your other kitchen knives?

cheers,
ryan

I got the Tojiro DP gyutou (24cm) and the petty.

I use them very frequently - they haven't replaced my previous knives for heavier chopping tasks. I also keep a couple of my old knives handy for my wife to use - she's not allowed to touch my good ones!

I got them from Korin on sale - and they are definitely good value for the $$ and are a good introduction to Japanese knives at a reasonable price.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
The use of harder steel brings many benefits to cutlery. Harder steel can be ground thinner and take a more acute angle. This allows for a lighter, more nimble knife. For the vast percentage of applications, this is a good thing. A high end example such as a Misono UX-10 or a Nenox S1 will feel like using a laser and will glide through food.

This is, however, an engineering tradeoff of the most basic kind. True, light weight and ultra sharp edges rock when it comes to slicing a tomato or an onion, but at the expense of toughness. You can chip that delicate edge on hard skinned vegetables, squash, or even a hard, crusty loaf of bread.

It's really not a problem, though. You just have to use the right tool for the job. The gyuto may not perform in 100% of the cases, but it works (and excels) for a vast array of tasks. For tougher jobs, there are knives specifically designed for more aggressive applications, such as the yo-deba. I have a 240mm Togiharu Inox yo-deba that weighs over 18 ounces, and can cut a car in half. This simplest (and cheapest) thing to do is to have a cheap, heavy duty Chinese cleaver for splitting lobstors and cutting butternut squash and pineapple. Save the good knives for the delicate tasks that require precision cuts.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
Cleavers run from $10 to $500 (and up, of course), and are one of the most useful tools ever devised.

Hold it parallel to your cutting board and butterfly chicken cutlets. Voila- you just save two bucks a pound. Whack a clove of garlic with the sife of your cleaver, and the skin will literally fall off. They're great for chopping veggies, and you can scoop them up with the built in pastry scraper.

Get two- a medium weight with a thin blade for prep and a heavy duty one for chopping spare ribs into pieces. The more you use them the more you'll like them.
 
Ouch - any tips for sharpening a cleaver?

I recently acquired one of these - a Masahiro for about $70 from Japanwoodworker - nothing fancy but what appears to be a decent piece of steel for the price. I got the vegetable one, which, as Ouch said above, used for prep work, as opposed to hacking formerly living things into bite -sized pieces.

Here's a pic in case anyone is interested:

View attachment 22621
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
You sharpen them just like any other knife, only it takes a whole lot longer. They're very unwieldy and it's hard to hold a steady angle. I usually start with a very coarse stone around a 220 grit, and max out at around 1K. That's all they really need, and only the best cleavers will benefit from a more highly refined edge.

I never saw that Masahiro in person, but JWW is a great company, and Masahiro makes some terrific knives. If I'm not mistaken, yours is a warikomi style with a hard carbon steel plate sandwiched between a stainless out cladding. I may eventually pick one up.
 
I never saw that Masahiro in person, but JWW is a great company, and Masahiro makes some terrific knives. If I'm not mistaken, yours is a warikomi style with a hard carbon steel plate sandwiched between a stainless out cladding. I may eventually pick one up.

You're bang on - its the sandwich balde style.

I really like it - the finish on the lower half (not polished) helps to keep stuff from sticking.

The handle's just ok, but overall, I'm pretty happy with it for the price - it came pretty sharp out of the box.

I actually took my ceramic steel (around 6k - I'm guessing) to the edge lightly and that seemed to work well - I know its not how you're supposed to do this, but the guy at JWW said it wouldn't hurt the knife if I was careful to use very little pressure.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
A steel won't hurt it. Steels are good for knives with softer, ahem, steel, as it were. They tend to suffer from a rolling over of the edge more, and steels will realign them pronto.

I know a lot of guys who will use a cleaver for everything. A billion Chinese can't be all wrong.
 

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member
I picked up a $20 cleaver at The Chinese Store (yeah, that's it's name) a couple weeks ago ... one massive chunk of iron, that's for sure. If anything will make a dead crab quake in boots it doesn't even have, this is it.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
I picked up a $20 cleaver at The Chinese Store (yeah, that's it's name) a couple weeks ago ... one massive chunk of iron, that's for sure. If anything will make a dead crab quake in boots it doesn't even have, this is it.

Everyone should have a knife like that. I have a #1 size, cheap Chinese cleaver, all stainless including the handle, that I bought in 1985 for ten bucks. It weighs well over a pound, and can probably split logs if necessary. When I'm faced with a task that's too much for the other beaters, this is the first one I grab.

Here are some killers-
http://www.chanchikee.com/ChineseKnives.html

And remember- never mess with a man with a knife called a pigsticker.
 
thanks for all of the great suggestions!

i have been thinking of a cleaver for some time now.

chris- good to hear that those two tojiros handle most things. i will probably get the shorter gyutou and the shorter petty from them.

ian- :) arent these speciality forums horrible on the pocket book? i have gone from one forum to the next aquiring new ads.


so a question on the chinese cleaver- would a inexpensive one from a asian store work ok since the edge isnt necessarily sharpened to the same degree as the japanese knives?

cheers!
ryan
 
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