Higher and Higher Education

[BMWRider]

Deregulation in and of itself is a good thing, the problem is all the government interference in the market along with deregulation. If I use your money to pay for my education, I could not care less how much it costs. Universities know this and take advantage of it to sock it to the American taxpayer. So we as a nation borrow money from China and Japan to loan it to 18 year olds to go to college. Now to a lot of teenagers $37,000 is as mythical a number as a million. They are going to school on Monopoly money. Colleges in America can build multi-million dollar libraries, state of the art gymnasiums, and other showcases with that money and get you when you become aware at 25 and have $100K in debt.

I would like to see the citizens of the USA begin to demand a full accounting of where our dollars go from all government agencies. We are all worried about private industry, while most of us could not care less what happens with our tax dollars, which is where half our income goes. State schools should be held accountable for every single dollar they spend, and should have to be audited by an independent firm annually, with full disclosure to the people of the state. I would bet dollars to donuts that it isn't the professors getting rich.

 

[Bowcephalus]

it was more then $37,000 for tuition, room, and broad in that last year.

Well ya didn't expect them to throw in a broad with your room for free did ya????Broads cost more than ever these days.

 

[da0acer0]

At least other state schools don't count on a major source of money to be Hurricane Insurance...and what happens when there are little to no Hurricanes? ppl don't buy insurance and all of a sudden the state universities are in a 50% budget cut or some crap like that, which then raises tuition. Im currently doing my graduate degree, and what pisses me off is how ppl complain about paying 150 bux a credit (one class is usually 3 credits) when I as a international student pay 550 PER credit....

 

[Bubarubu]

Ever since Texas deregulated the tuition rates, the only thing that has happened on a consistant basis is the rate increase. Now that each school is free to set their tuition, all of the state schools just keep getting more and more expensive. I graduated from college in 1994 and was able to work my way through college to pay for it. I don't think a student today would be able to to do that. Simply taking on more student loans is not the answer either.

The problem in Texas was that deregulation also meant cutting state funds to the schools. Tuition had to go up (my graduate tuition roughly doubled from the first to second year) because there was less money coming in. The same thing has been happening in a lot of places. Here at Kansas, 50% of the budget used to come from the state. Now it's less than 24%. Higher ed is an easy place for state governments to cut because some students come from out of state, the overwhelming majority don't vote, and the increased cost is hidden by loans.

While I disagree with Dr. Mike on the utility of Women's Studies programs (and likely some of the purpose of higher education), I wholeheartedly agree that too many people are in college without a good reason or adequate preparation. If you (or your kids) know what degree they want and know why they want it, then start at a four-year school. If you are going to come in without a major in mind, then get an AA at the closest community college, then enroll a four-year to finish the BA. Assume until proven otherwise that a research institution is not the best place to get a BA/BS. Then there's the whole thing about going to class and doing the work and asking for help from the instructors too.

 

[castlecraver]

Well ya didn't expect them to throw in a broad with your room for free did ya????Broads cost more than ever these days.

I LOLed.

 

[yardpup01]

Now to a lot of teenagers $37,000 is as mythical a number as a million. They are going to school on Monopoly money. Colleges in America can build multi-million dollar libraries, state of the art gymnasiums, and other showcases with that money and get you when you become aware at 25 and have $100K in debt.

This is a generalization that I take offense to. I think many students, myself included, are more than aware of the cost of education, but what choices are we left? You can only work so much, and at $7 and hour you can't do a whole lot. The only way I could pay for college was through loans, my parents can't help, my schedual is such that I can only work weekends, and even with scholarships I do have I can't cover it all. I hate the fact that I have debt, I hate it. Unlike most of the country I don't use my credit card, I can't stand it when I have $1 of debt. I pay for everything up front, but for tuition I have had no choice.

In conclusion, no I don't know what $37,000 is like, I've never made more than $10k in one year, but I know that I'm going to have to pay it off, sooner than later.

I wholeheartedly agree that too many people are in college without a good reason or adequate preparation. If you (or your kids) know what degree they want and know why they want it, then start at a four-year school. If you are going to come in without a major in mind, then get an AA at the closest community college, then enroll a four-year to finish the BA. Assume until proven otherwise that a research institution is not the best place to get a BA/BS. Then there's the whole thing about going to class and doing the work and asking for help from the instructors too.

It drives me crazy that a lot of students think of college as 4 years of unsupervised high school. I'm here to learn so I can get a job and support a family, if you're here to get wasted all the time, go home.

 

[BMWRider]

This is a generalization that I take offense to.

If you read what I said again I said "to a lot of teenagers," so unless you are among them there is no reason for you to be offended. I deal with teenagers every day, and stand by what I said.

 

[yardpup01]

If you read what I said again I said "to a lot of teenagers," so unless you are among them there is no reason for you to be offended.

My apologies, I read too much into your post... or not enough.

 

[Bowcephalus]

Exceptional folks should never take offense to generalizations....

 

[Roman414]

If you are going to college so you can make more money, you might be screwing up. There have been a couple of studies that indicate that the guy who goes to college for four years seldom ever catches up to the guy who did not, financially. He loses four years that he could be earning money and advancing in a trade, and starts out (often) with a large student-loan debt. The guy who enters into plumbing or auto mechanics or something similar right out of hight school often has an insurmountable lead by the time the college grad hits the job market and pays off the loans.

 

[BMWRider]

My apologies, I read too much into your post... or not enough.

Fair enough, no harm, no foul.

 

[BMWRider]

The guy who enters into plumbing or auto mechanics or something similar right out of hight school often has an insurmountable lead by the time the college grad hits the job market and pays off the loans.

I think the key there is that he (or she) must have a marketable skill. My plumber makes a lot more than I do, and I made more money as an electrician than I do now. The counter is that laborers and other "unskilled" occupations make much less. Everything I have read indicates that as a class college graduates earn more over a lifetime. I would love to see a comparison of college graduates to trade school graduates.

 

[ScottS]

I am not sure. I believe that many pay the prices because they do not see the cost. If moms and dads, or students had to cost flow tuition instead of delaying the pain for four years, how long before people demanded accountability from our universities? If you do not see the expense, you really do not care how much it is.

The best deal in America for a college education is the local community college. Chances are your instructor actually applies what he or she teaches in a real world scenario, and not hidden behind the ivy walls of academia. Learning chemistry from an industrial chemist is really a bargain at the local CC. I know there are four year institutions that do the same thing, University of Maryland, University College comes to mind. Students seem to be flocking to these tuition "bargains."

When I lived in Seattle they had a really cool program where high school students could forgo the last two years of high school and attend the local community college for their junior and senior years. My understanding was that all they had to pay for were books. When they completed their program they received an Associates degree and a high school diploma. In Washington, state schools must (at least back then) accept 100% of the credits awarded by the local community colleges. The thought of graduating from college at 19 or 20 with a four year degree sounds like a pretty huge benefit. It would not appeal to all, but a few could certainly get a leg up.

You have some fine points. I'll add one. Think about the total cost of education for a loan recipient and someone paying cash. It's MUCH more expensive for a person with no means to attend school.

One answer, as folks have been pointing out, is to demand excellence from community colleges. It's not that much more expensive to run a good program than it is to run a mediocre program.

There are guaranteed admissions policies. I think Brooklyn College was one of them. I'm not sure about waiving all academic standards. I think a lax academic standard, like top 80% of your class, is not that different from no academic requirement, but it at least red flags those students who really need some kind of remediation prior to entrance (Why set up someone to fail?). I think going the next step, and helping people to find that remediation, and then helping them to enroll in a college, would all be good things.

This is something I know little about now, but I'll be attending a breakout session on diversity at an educational summit in mid June. I hope to pick up some insight there.

Books, by the way, can be a huge expense. I'm one of the few I know who actually puts cost into the decision. In fact, school bookstores don't even put the cost on the class textbook forms (and I've written to the Dean about this). I'm also working with our librarians to try to find an appropriate open-source text for one of my classes (though I'm not holding my breath on this-- it's pretty specific stuff).

 

[ScottS]

The best deal in America for a college education is the local community college.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/02/business/02loans.html?hp

Well, so much for that.

 

[ouch]

I graduated from college about 2 yrs ago, it was more then $37,000 for tuition

You may want a partial refund.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[BMWRider]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/02/business/02loans.html?hp

Well, so much for that.

Frankly I find their position short sighted. It seems that a student who is trying to be frugal is getting punished.

 

[ScottS]

Frankly I find their position short sighted. It seems that a student who is trying to be frugal is getting punished.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[BD1970]

If I were a young person that was about to enter college, I would look into the GI Bill (especially if we weren't in the middle of a war).

 

[Bowcephalus]

I graduated from college about 2 yrs ago, it was more then $37,000 for tuition

Not to worry too much.There are a couple of guys who frequent here who regularly substitute "then" for "than".....

 

[Roman414]

What used to burn me was paying out big bucks for required textbooks, then being told by the professor that he was not going to use that book because he didn't like it. Seems like they could coordinate such things better.