Gold differences 2 aristocrats?pics.
- Thread starter ziggy1706
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I'm pretty sure that they are both US 'Aristocrats' from 1934 so they should be identical.
Maybe there is a difference in how much the gold plating has worn off. Another thing could be the lighting in the pictures.
Maybe there is a difference in how much the gold plating has worn off. Another thing could be the lighting in the pictures.
If they are not side by side on the same picture it’s hard to tell. Maybe one is a replate?
This is the same razor in 3 pics:
This is the same razor in 3 pics:
I can't keep track of what's going on here with the posts and pictures, which are not explicitly explained.
And, of course, you are asking for comments on two 87 year old razors taken with different cameras under different lighting conditions, ergo, it is utterly impossible to reach any definitive answer to your three (?) questions, which I do not understand, anyway.
You: "Is the bottom pic a real aristocrat?"
There is no bottom pic; there are two photos aligned horizontally, so I do not know which one you are referring to. Plus, when I click on them, I cannot get a larger image to examine more closely, such as to see the writing on the razor.
However, if the razor says "Gillette" on it, it is safe to assume it is genuine. Who would/could counterfeit such a complicated old razor? Sure, used ones in excellent condition sell for good money on eB, but not enough to pay for making a reproduction, as the Chubby Boy replica folks have found out. The closest anyone has come to a replica OCTTO is Pearl, which are reasonably priced, although their general QC is such that I don't think anyone would mistake them for a vintage Gillette.
As to the gold coloration, a lot can be said.
Lighting can make an enormous difference when photographing a razor. I bought a near-mint Fatip razor from Etsy that I assumed was gold from looking at the photos, but when it arrived it was nickel plated. The lighting sure made it look like gold. The color balance setting on the camera, as well as the color saturation, etc., used in editing the photo also can shift the color. Also, the background color used in taking the photo will cause the automatic color adjustment within the camera to shift the color, something some eB sellers seem to take advantage of by using green backgrounds. However, the photos of most eB sellers are remarkably accurate and honest, within their technical limitations. Some you can blow up and sharpen for additional information. Others are out of focus or shaky; if so, perhaps they are hiding something.
As to the color of gold on vintage Gillette razors, that is an interesting matter. Some members like to make snide remarks about the gold electroplating, such as that it is one atom deep, which would mean that Gillette has only used about one ounce of gold on its razors in its entire history. Given that Old Type razors are a century old, the gold plating has generally done its job of providing a non-corrosive coating to protect the razor during the normal working lifetime of the razor, which was never intended to be 100 years.
The Old Types and New Types had a protective coating of lacquer over the gold, probably using about the same technique to lacquer a brass musical instrument, although thinner. From looking at an assortment of razors, it is apparent that a) at some point someone realized that that instead of a clear lacquer they could apply a gold colored lacquer to jazz up the razor, b) they experimented with the gold coloration of the lacquer, so the color of the razors varies all over the place, c) at some point of use the lacquer wears off and you are left with the gold plating, which is still nice but eventually is not so shiny, d) eventually, the gold plating wears off and you are left with the brass, which sometimes looks only slightly different from the worn down gold plating unless it is corroded and green, and looks especially nice if you take a brass cleaner to it, e) given how nice the brass can look, you have to wonder why they didn't just lacquer the brass in the first place, like with a musical instrument -- ever see a lacquered brass trumpet vs. a gold plated one? Actually, the reason the trumpet is gold plated is because the sweat on your hands over hundreds or thousands of hours of use erodes the lacquer, on into the brass, which can corrode, so they eventually need to be re-lacquered. The gold does not erode from sweat. So the gold on razors really does provide a practical function, as well as being beautiful.
And, as anyone presumably knows, there are different grades of gold, from 24 karat pure gold, on down. Sometimes the lower grade gold will not look as golden, sometimes it will, depending on what metals are added to the gold -- that is why the touchstone was invented.
Also, the thickness of the plating will, presumably, have some effect on the look of the gold on a razor, though probably mainly between the very thin plating of the cheap old razors and the heavier plating of the premium razors. The OCTTO Aristocrat was inherently a premium razor, and so it would have had a thicker gold plating -- I presume. And some premium Gillette razors were more premium than others. Plus some were custom jobs. Did the thickness and karat rating of the gold plating vary among these high-end razors? I do not know, but perhaps someone here does. If so, the gold plating could vary among OCTTO Aristocrats, or other OCCTOs.*
And now we come to the $64 dollar question: We know the Old Type razors had lacquer over the gold plating. But were the premium razors like this OCTTO Aristocrat lacquered, too? They look shiny, but is the shine due to lacquer or to high quality gold plating? If they are lacquered, then the shine would presumably lessen as the razor wears from use, hence a possible explanation for the possible differences in the two razors in the OP. Some of the photos in the fourth post, particularly of the top cap, show reflectivity that, to me, looks like lacquer. Also, if lacquer was used, it may not have been applied equally on all parts of the razor. The most wear, we see historically, occurs on the top cap, and so it would be reasonable to apply an extra coating of lacquer there -- or a heavier plating of gold.
Another question: Can you feel the difference between gold plating and lacquer? That might provide a clue, though not in a photo.
Of course, you could take the razor to a jeweler for an opinion. Or you could just shave with it for 50 years, and eventually you would have a pretty good idea about the lacquer vs. gold plating based on the way it wears. And if it works for 50 years, who cares if it is a genuine Gillette?
But if the box says it is an "Aristocrat" then it is an Aristocrat. Would Gillette lie?
Go that?
-=-
* Contrary to plebian assumptions, the Aristocrat was never Gillette's true top of the line, though what, exactly, those differences were, aside from the label on the box (and the price tag, of course), has long been a source of mystery and speculation.
-=-
Coming tomorrow: How tofry an egg! or two!in threesteps ora fryingpan whichever.you prefer
And, of course, you are asking for comments on two 87 year old razors taken with different cameras under different lighting conditions, ergo, it is utterly impossible to reach any definitive answer to your three (?) questions, which I do not understand, anyway.
You: "Is the bottom pic a real aristocrat?"
There is no bottom pic; there are two photos aligned horizontally, so I do not know which one you are referring to. Plus, when I click on them, I cannot get a larger image to examine more closely, such as to see the writing on the razor.
However, if the razor says "Gillette" on it, it is safe to assume it is genuine. Who would/could counterfeit such a complicated old razor? Sure, used ones in excellent condition sell for good money on eB, but not enough to pay for making a reproduction, as the Chubby Boy replica folks have found out. The closest anyone has come to a replica OCTTO is Pearl, which are reasonably priced, although their general QC is such that I don't think anyone would mistake them for a vintage Gillette.
As to the gold coloration, a lot can be said.
Lighting can make an enormous difference when photographing a razor. I bought a near-mint Fatip razor from Etsy that I assumed was gold from looking at the photos, but when it arrived it was nickel plated. The lighting sure made it look like gold. The color balance setting on the camera, as well as the color saturation, etc., used in editing the photo also can shift the color. Also, the background color used in taking the photo will cause the automatic color adjustment within the camera to shift the color, something some eB sellers seem to take advantage of by using green backgrounds. However, the photos of most eB sellers are remarkably accurate and honest, within their technical limitations. Some you can blow up and sharpen for additional information. Others are out of focus or shaky; if so, perhaps they are hiding something.
As to the color of gold on vintage Gillette razors, that is an interesting matter. Some members like to make snide remarks about the gold electroplating, such as that it is one atom deep, which would mean that Gillette has only used about one ounce of gold on its razors in its entire history. Given that Old Type razors are a century old, the gold plating has generally done its job of providing a non-corrosive coating to protect the razor during the normal working lifetime of the razor, which was never intended to be 100 years.
The Old Types and New Types had a protective coating of lacquer over the gold, probably using about the same technique to lacquer a brass musical instrument, although thinner. From looking at an assortment of razors, it is apparent that a) at some point someone realized that that instead of a clear lacquer they could apply a gold colored lacquer to jazz up the razor, b) they experimented with the gold coloration of the lacquer, so the color of the razors varies all over the place, c) at some point of use the lacquer wears off and you are left with the gold plating, which is still nice but eventually is not so shiny, d) eventually, the gold plating wears off and you are left with the brass, which sometimes looks only slightly different from the worn down gold plating unless it is corroded and green, and looks especially nice if you take a brass cleaner to it, e) given how nice the brass can look, you have to wonder why they didn't just lacquer the brass in the first place, like with a musical instrument -- ever see a lacquered brass trumpet vs. a gold plated one? Actually, the reason the trumpet is gold plated is because the sweat on your hands over hundreds or thousands of hours of use erodes the lacquer, on into the brass, which can corrode, so they eventually need to be re-lacquered. The gold does not erode from sweat. So the gold on razors really does provide a practical function, as well as being beautiful.
And, as anyone presumably knows, there are different grades of gold, from 24 karat pure gold, on down. Sometimes the lower grade gold will not look as golden, sometimes it will, depending on what metals are added to the gold -- that is why the touchstone was invented.
Also, the thickness of the plating will, presumably, have some effect on the look of the gold on a razor, though probably mainly between the very thin plating of the cheap old razors and the heavier plating of the premium razors. The OCTTO Aristocrat was inherently a premium razor, and so it would have had a thicker gold plating -- I presume. And some premium Gillette razors were more premium than others. Plus some were custom jobs. Did the thickness and karat rating of the gold plating vary among these high-end razors? I do not know, but perhaps someone here does. If so, the gold plating could vary among OCTTO Aristocrats, or other OCCTOs.*
And now we come to the $64 dollar question: We know the Old Type razors had lacquer over the gold plating. But were the premium razors like this OCTTO Aristocrat lacquered, too? They look shiny, but is the shine due to lacquer or to high quality gold plating? If they are lacquered, then the shine would presumably lessen as the razor wears from use, hence a possible explanation for the possible differences in the two razors in the OP. Some of the photos in the fourth post, particularly of the top cap, show reflectivity that, to me, looks like lacquer. Also, if lacquer was used, it may not have been applied equally on all parts of the razor. The most wear, we see historically, occurs on the top cap, and so it would be reasonable to apply an extra coating of lacquer there -- or a heavier plating of gold.
Another question: Can you feel the difference between gold plating and lacquer? That might provide a clue, though not in a photo.
Of course, you could take the razor to a jeweler for an opinion. Or you could just shave with it for 50 years, and eventually you would have a pretty good idea about the lacquer vs. gold plating based on the way it wears. And if it works for 50 years, who cares if it is a genuine Gillette?
But if the box says it is an "Aristocrat" then it is an Aristocrat. Would Gillette lie?
Go that?
-=-
* Contrary to plebian assumptions, the Aristocrat was never Gillette's true top of the line, though what, exactly, those differences were, aside from the label on the box (and the price tag, of course), has long been a source of mystery and speculation.
-=-
Coming tomorrow: How tofry an egg! or two!in threesteps ora fryingpan whichever.you prefer
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