I agree with much of your post, but I do love this point. Honda, Nissan, and Toyota only wish they could compete in this market. I won't denigrate, the small truck segment where I think Nissan (Frontier) and Toyota (Tacoma) put out a first class product but in the full size truck segment they just can't compete. Reports have Nissan trying to work with Chrysler on the design for the new generation Titan.
General Motors has finally lost it!!
- Thread starter citizensoldierny
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What I meant was American cars on average, which my link does prove.
Why did you mention Jaguar? It is not American.
EDIT: I do agree with reliability being a perception, however, I would say these surveys are pretty accurate. If they weren't, MB wouldn't have gotten their panties in a bundle because of it.
Cadillac is an amazing automaker. They compete with BMW and MB, but offer better reliability and much more under the hood, while offering great interiors.
Honda doesn't make full-size trucks. The Tundra competes very well in its class. Chrysler is pretty much dead, so I would not expect to see much out of that Nissan relationship. The ability of Ford and GM to make trucks isn't really an issue that relates to their current situation. It is the ignoring, for so many years, of all of the other types of vehicles needed to make a car company better able to weather changes in consumer tastes. Ford is definitely better off in this regard.
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You can still find good deals with American cars if the cars drop a lot in price. If the car companies continue to struggle, that might be the time to get one. I would consider American SUVs/trucks depending on cost/historical resale if I needed one. To me, it is all about how much you spend total(including repair & maintenance costs), and how much the resale is on them. I find USA cars(namely Big3 cars, Big3 trucks do ok) to have a hard time with the resale aspect, which a lot of people don't research in the car buying process. I took my dad's Chrysler off his hands pretty cheap since he couldn't seem to even give the car away for half resale cost 3yrs later. The car was luxurious, had a powerful engine but things were always breaking and I could tell the quality of the car. I dumped it for a used Accord. hehe.
As for me now, I don't really care to invest close to a house payment that will be worthless in 10yrs. I'm driving my Accord until the wheels fall off hehe.
I like the Caddy's design/comfort/features.
As for me now, I don't really care to invest close to a house payment that will be worthless in 10yrs. I'm driving my Accord until the wheels fall off hehe.
I like the Caddy's design/comfort/features.
If you don't consider the Ridgeline a full-size truck then I cede the point. I thought that was the targeted market.
I'm not sure what class Tundra competes well in. It trails in sales behind Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado, Dodge Ram, GMC Sierra in every time frame I can find figures. It also suffers from a well publicized "bed shake" issue. While I agree that Chrysler hangs dangerously on the proverbial slippery slope, the Dodge Ram has a strong audience and IMO they can continue to compete in that segment.
I'll strongly disagree that the auto companies have ignored the consumers wishes. The consumer have wanted large trucks and SUVs and the American automaker has provided them. If it were not for the sudden jumb in gas prices we wouldn't even be having this conversation. GM's Arlington, TX plant is dedicated to the large SUV segment and was working overtime during the recent downturn. Further proving my point is the current glut of Toyota Prius on dealers lots. During the period of high gas prices, a buyer had to get on a list (6 months at one point), now they can't give them away as the buying public has migrated back to their true love. Two to four months ago full size trucks on the used market were bringing $2k-$4k less at auction. Don't ask me how I know that statistic.
All the Ridgeline is is a mini-Avalanche with nifty little cargo bay. I wouldn't say it was full-size. Why they got so many accolades for it, I don't know.
There used to be a large gap in quality between Jap. and Amer. cars, but not as much now. However, the perception lingers. Many factors have brought the Big 3 down, namely their shortsightedness. Apparently they learned nothing from the last gas crisis.
Legacy costs are not the only problem with expenses. Why should someone make as much as a teacher or firefighter for pressing 2 buttons and pulling a lever all day? If they want to pay that, fine, but don't go begging when it bites them in the a**. Unions were VERY necessary a while ago, but now they are the lazy man's greatest ally, as long as he pays his dues.
There used to be a large gap in quality between Jap. and Amer. cars, but not as much now. However, the perception lingers. Many factors have brought the Big 3 down, namely their shortsightedness. Apparently they learned nothing from the last gas crisis.
Legacy costs are not the only problem with expenses. Why should someone make as much as a teacher or firefighter for pressing 2 buttons and pulling a lever all day? If they want to pay that, fine, but don't go begging when it bites them in the a**. Unions were VERY necessary a while ago, but now they are the lazy man's greatest ally, as long as he pays his dues.
So which is the most successful auto company in the U.S. right now?
Also, which Japanese automaker is doing best in North America? Is it Honda or Toyota?
Is GM still number 1 in China? I wonder if they'll completely move over.
Also, which Japanese automaker is doing best in North America? Is it Honda or Toyota?
Is GM still number 1 in China? I wonder if they'll completely move over.
- Thread starter
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"So which is the most successful auto company in the U.S. right now?"
Ford, thanks to the F-150 they are doing o.k. and have yet to borrow money. I am actually pretty excited about the new Taurus, not excited enough to trade in my accord, but it does look interesting. This is if you don't count the foreign automakers building cars in the U.S..
Ford, thanks to the F-150 they are doing o.k. and have yet to borrow money. I am actually pretty excited about the new Taurus, not excited enough to trade in my accord, but it does look interesting. This is if you don't count the foreign automakers building cars in the U.S..
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Actually, I think Toyota surpassed even the almighty F-150 in sales numbers last year. IMHO, GM needs to have ONE truck line, not two. The only difference between a GM truck and a Chevy truck is one has a bowtie and one has a big red GMC on the front. I think they should get rid of Hummer (except for the military, its original purpose), probably ditch Saab (its still losing money), and if its not too late, bring the VOLT into production ASAP. This silly little thing with the Segway company looks like a death-trap/insurance issue already! I'd rather see GM building motorcycles than this thing. And thats saying a lot.
I'll admit, I've never owned a GM product. I'm not going to say American or Japanese cars are better. The fact is, any car, if taken care of, has the potential to be great. How many old Ford Escorts are still around? That says something of them. Has anyone looked at Hyundai recently? They've really stepped things up and are starting to really be a contender in the import race. Case in point the Genesis. A proper rear-wheel drive coupe, from Korea
Who'd have thought THAT would happen? And its nice, its roomy, its luxury features are on par, dare I say, with its competiton, even Cadillac has something to worry about here. I'm not going to become a commercial here, but there is a lot going on in the car realm. I for one wouldn't be heart-broken to see Chrysler go away. They had some good times, MB helped them along for awhile, but its time they join Packard, AMC, Eagle, Desoto, and all the other marks that have passed from production.
On a side note, I love the looks of 50s Chryslers, but lets face it, their days are numbered. Even bringing back the 300 didn't save them.
Oh yeah, and the Tundra? Is giving the big 3 a run for their money. Nobody expected the Japanese to build a full size truck. Heck, wasn't there a lot of anger when Japan started sending us the early Datsun and later Toyota tiny trucks? Now look where things are.
I'll admit, I've never owned a GM product. I'm not going to say American or Japanese cars are better. The fact is, any car, if taken care of, has the potential to be great. How many old Ford Escorts are still around? That says something of them. Has anyone looked at Hyundai recently? They've really stepped things up and are starting to really be a contender in the import race. Case in point the Genesis. A proper rear-wheel drive coupe, from Korea
Who'd have thought THAT would happen? And its nice, its roomy, its luxury features are on par, dare I say, with its competiton, even Cadillac has something to worry about here. I'm not going to become a commercial here, but there is a lot going on in the car realm. I for one wouldn't be heart-broken to see Chrysler go away. They had some good times, MB helped them along for awhile, but its time they join Packard, AMC, Eagle, Desoto, and all the other marks that have passed from production.On a side note, I love the looks of 50s Chryslers, but lets face it, their days are numbered. Even bringing back the 300 didn't save them.
Oh yeah, and the Tundra? Is giving the big 3 a run for their money. Nobody expected the Japanese to build a full size truck. Heck, wasn't there a lot of anger when Japan started sending us the early Datsun and later Toyota tiny trucks? Now look where things are.
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Toyota became #1 a couple of years back, I believe. I forgot to mention all the "badgineering" that has been going on. It seems to have subsided a bit, and can be helpful to add variety, but the Big 3 took it too far. How many versions of the Eclipse did we really need? The only reason Chrysler has made it in recent years is all those Benz parts they started putting on their cars, and even that has fizzled.
Another thing was all the rebates. Why should you have to bribe people to buy your product? One thing, though, foreign car companies, by and large, are protected by their respective governments. Not really the case here. The government has in a way facilitated the "takeover," so to speak.
Another thing was all the rebates. Why should you have to bribe people to buy your product? One thing, though, foreign car companies, by and large, are protected by their respective governments. Not really the case here. The government has in a way facilitated the "takeover," so to speak.
+1. I couldn't agree more. The Eclipse? You mean, the Plymouth Laser and the Eagle Talon?
A classic example. Of course, even Toyota is guilty of this one...The Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe, anyone? hehe.
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I'm still trying to decide between the Chevrolet Suburban and the GMC Suburban.
A tough choice, I know. How about a Tahoe or a Denali? Decisions, oh, decisions.
The new Titan is supposed to be built in Mexico.
Interesting. I just read recently somewhere that Suzuki and Nissan are working on making a truck together. Seems Suzuki finally realized that people who ride their atvs, motorcycles, dirtbikes, and such need a pickup to haul them around in in the off season.
Last time I owned a Chevy vehicle was in the mid 1980's. After my experience with Chevy, I won't buy any vehicle made by the Big 3. I've been very pleased my my MINI Cooper S. As a matter of fact, I've been so impressed that I've bought two of them 
Up until last year, Jaguar was owned by Ford. They sold it to an Indian company last June.
So if it doesn't fall into the full-size segment, where would if fall? It is not in the small truck category.
I totally agree.
Exactly.
I would still argue the shortsightedness comment. IMO they continued to build what the American public wanted to buy. SUVs and trucks. It is consumers that drive the markets not the automakers.
I agree that the unions have done a disservice to the automakers, but from what I have read it is not the hourly wage that is the dominant failure. It is the mountain of legacy "debt" and the "job banks" (which supposedly have no been discontinued) that raised the employee cost.
I agree. According to MSN:
As it happens, the top-selling truck in United States, the Ford F-150, is also the most popular truck on MSN, which is determined by the number of visits to its vehicle information pages. This is nothing new. The Ford F-Series has been the best-selling vehicle on this side of the pond for more than 30 years, and while sales of the big truck were off by more than 25 percent in 2008, the F-150 still outsold every other vehicle in America.
I seem to recall reading that as well. Though I can't tell you any numbers.
Not true. They have not counted in on the federal government bailout only because they took out their loans before the credit crunch which caught GM and Chrysler. They are suffering the same losses in sales as all of the other automakers, foreign and domestic. They have also not ruled out completely that they will not ask for bailout money.
Not even combining sales of the Tacoma and the Tundra. The F-150 had @400k (units) vs Toyota's @235k (units).
I do agree that the duplication of efforts just doesn't make much sense going forward.
IMO, GM ruined the SAAB, and Ford may be doing the same with Volvo.
Why rush to build the Volt? Check out the current dealership situation with the Prius. The American buying public is fickle. No automaker should be building vehicles that are not going to sell immediately.
No, it's not, see above. As for the Tundra, the Japanese aren't building them, they're being built right here in Texas.
I don't remember any anger. Heck the VW Beetle preceded those vehicles by a decade. I will say that both Nissan and Toyota would be best served by remaining in the small truck market. They've built the Frontier and Tacoma a bit too large now, and with their powerplants they are not fuel efficient at all.
Badgineering
I agree.It's a done deal. Suzuki rebadged the Nissan Frontier. Slight cosmetic modifications is all I can tell. I looked one over last October at the Fair.
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