For me if a razor gives you a close shave in the usual number of passes, then it is efficient. If it has more blade feel than other razors, then it is aggressive.
Explain "Efficiency" to me...
- Thread starter Chef455
- Start date
My apologies for taking your post ...
IMHO, often people use "efficient" while they should use "effective", as in this case. Effectiveness describes to what degree you have achieved your targeted result. Efficiency describes the effort needed to achieve that result.
If we are talking about number of passes and how close the shave is:
- Closeness = Effectiveness.
- Less passes = Efficiency.
My target is (a) to get BBS al the times with (b) no irritations. If I want to compare my two Henson's:
- My Henson Mild is very effective for (a) and ( b), maybe less efficient for (a).
- My Henson Aggressive is very efficient for (a), less effective for (b).
(having said that, I have the impression that 50% of the times people describe a razor as efficient, when they actually mean that they just like it a lot).
My take on how people use efficiency is how aggressive the razor is.
To me an efficient razor knocks down whiskers well and is not irritating. My mild 1940’s tech is very efficient. I can go a week and this mild razor is more efficient than say my Merkur progress on settling 4. The progress doesn’t knock down the whiskers as well and it irritates the skin when used on Setting 4.
To me an efficient razor knocks down whiskers well and is not irritating. My mild 1940’s tech is very efficient. I can go a week and this mild razor is more efficient than say my Merkur progress on settling 4. The progress doesn’t knock down the whiskers as well and it irritates the skin when used on Setting 4.
Last edited:
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe that introducing the term effectiveness is just creating a distinction without a difference. Using your formulation that "closeness = effectiveness and less passes = efficiency", consider that the only purpose of additional passes is to increase closeness. So in my case, where the number of passes is fixed at 2 plus touch-ups, you would say that all razors have the same efficiency, but some would be more effective. If I chose instead to do as many passes as was required for a given level of closeness, the same razor that provided the best closeness at 2 passes (the most effective) would also turn out to be the most efficient.
razor efficiency (at least as the term is used in the hobby) refers to how easily the razor shaves hair off and how close the razor shaves. Aggression is typically associated with efficiency but I personally perceive a difference. Some razors have way too much blade exposure/blade feel/blade gap compared to how close they shave. That is, they are not as efficient as some milder feeling razors. If I was to take two razors with the same blade gap but different geometry, exposure etc. they would likely not be equally efficient. If I take two razors and do a one pass shave and feel that one of the razors shaved closer/ shaved more hair than that one is more efficient.
Of course. And I know that the problem may be be with me. I tend to use those words for what they actually mean.
Last edited:
Good point. I agree.
Nice discussion, and illustrates why I would rather hear a description rather than a label (such as efficient, smooth, easy, forgiving, complacent, woke). To me, an efficient razor would remove the most amount of whisker with the least effort -- independent of razor burn, blood letting, etc.
Great discussion!!
All I can add, is that for me an efficient shave means, ‘minimal effort for an optimal result.’ To achieve that goal, I prefer a ‘mild/moderate’ razor combined with a ‘sharp’ blade. That’s what works best for me first thing in the AM.
If I combine an ‘aggressive’ razor with a ‘sharp’ blade, then I spend a ton of time and effort to avoid a blood bath!
All I can add, is that for me an efficient shave means, ‘minimal effort for an optimal result.’ To achieve that goal, I prefer a ‘mild/moderate’ razor combined with a ‘sharp’ blade. That’s what works best for me first thing in the AM.
If I combine an ‘aggressive’ razor with a ‘sharp’ blade, then I spend a ton of time and effort to avoid a blood bath!
This. If the goal of shaving is to do away with the presence of hair, a razor requiring the least effort, producing the closest shave (e.g., DFS, true BBS), with the longest duration, will be the most efficient.Great discussion!!
All I can add, is that for me an efficient shave means, ‘minimal effort for an optimal result.’ ...
You have three(maybe 4) distinct components combining into a largely individualized definition of shaving efficiency.
I'll start with what I would classify as the "maybe #4"- technique. This is completely individualistic and will evolve with experience in shaving, experience with given hardware, and with physiological changes, generally meaning age.
1.) Longest duration of shave. How long do you want or need your face/whatever to be "clean & clear"? You have to define this before addressing 2 & 3. Duration of shave will range from "I don't mind 5 o'clock shadow in 3-4 hours", to "a cotton ball won't wisp on my face in 8 hours." Past a certain level, you're talking about exfoliation as much as hair removal which is a personal comfort issue.
2.) Time. Least and/or most effective number of passes removing hair to reach #1. I am a 3 pass shaver. Period. I may do 4 with touch-ups using a SuperSpeed or similar. A more "aggressive," blade-forward/exposed, razor delivers this for me. I may spend more time drawing the blade, but it will achieve #1, without injury.
3.) Hair removal. Gets back to my goal in #1. I like at least an 8 hour BBS-DFS. There are few "mild" razors that can give this to me, regardless of technique- because they do not cut to the level of exfoliation. Here, you have a balance you are seeking, in blade sharpness, exposure, and razor profile, which are dependent upon technique to optimize and maximize.
I have far too many razors. The ones that are most efficient, for me, are Myatt Minor, Occam Oren, Asylum RX V2 and Injector, 2 early Brit Aristocrats.
YMMV...
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Varying mileage indeed.
For me, your "maybe 4" is the be all and end all. The time/passes, extent of hair removal per pass, and final closeness achieved, are less to do with the kit, than how it's handled.
To paraphrase my earlier post on this thread, on first use of a razor, the efficiency might be a lot lower than after a couple of month's dedicated use. When I was first using my now primary razor, I was having to do more passes, and still not getting the closeness I do now.
The efficiency has improved, but the razor is unchanged. I have become more efficient. If I went black to the razor I was using before, I would be less efficient with it than before I stopped using it. It would take me a few weeks to get that efficiency black again.
So is the razor efficient or not? If initially it takes me three passes plus targetted clean up to get the same end results as what I now get with two passes, what is the razor's efficiency? Is that deemed to have changed?
It took me 14.1/2 weeks transition to finally yield the same calibre shave as I was getting with the previous razor. Yet now that razor delivers me that calibre of shave reliably. I cannot in good conscience, give that razor an efficiency rating. It hasn't changed from the first shaves that needed a lot of extra work, and still might disappoint, to the reliably great shave I now get, with minimal effort.
RazoRock Game Changer 68 if it matters. Which it shouldn't. Where does it's efficiency start and finish, and mine begin?
Largely a rhetorical question, I hope you understand. It's not my intention to undermine or demean your perspective. It just stood as a good waypoint to contrast with my own perspectives.
I can only describe efficiency as the clossest per stroke and pass razor being the most efficient. rrazor. Of what I have, the Phoenix Artisan Filiment being the most efficient since for me, one full shave pass = two passes with any other razor. Two days post shave beard growth = one day with any other razor.
Well said.
.
I agree in that the individual must possess competency with the tool, i.e., a Formula 1 car in my hands will behave completely differently than a top tier driver.
That is why I listed technique as a "maybe". At a certain point, you technique reaches its epitome, and further/higher performance is incremental and generally technology driven. This is true of most all pursuits, marksmanship, driving/racing, flight, computer-coding, etc., etc..
A Super Speed will never give me a 12hour + BBS/DFS. It simply cannot exfoliate to the same degree as razors with more blade exposure or gap.
This is the shave I like now- extremely close and long lasting. With age and skin changes, that may/will change.
When I refer to the efficiency of a razor, I am referring to the inherent performance of that tool. Different experiences and skin/hair conditions may change it for others, but there is an inherent level of cutting performance available in each platform. Technique will optimize or exclude that performance.
Well this thread got me to thinking about “efficiency”. A large part of my job involves trying to make the processes that my teams use more efficient. I enjoy the process the of evaluation, measurement, and change. I don’t want this to turn into a grandiose thing here so I’ll do my best to keep this as short as possible.
Why do we shave and what are we trying to achieve? I did quite a bit of reading and this answer has changed throughout the years. I assumed for this test that physical appearance was the end goal. I know that for most of us, this is a hobby and that changes the reason some but I had to baseline this somewhere. I decided that my baseline was could I be presentable at a formal meeting 8 hours after I shaved and how did the stubble on my face feel prior to going to bed 17 -18 hours after shaving. This assessment was purely qualitative as I do not know how to measure either of these factors quantitatively.
Efficient: what is capable of producing desired results without wasting materials, time, or energy.
Proficient: able to do something to a higher than average standard.
I do not believe that efficiency can be evaluated by the task being performed by someone who isn’t proficient. In my opinion, In our case, in order to evaluate efficiency, the shaves must be performed by someone who is not new or inexperienced in the task.
I performed 6 shaves over 2 weeks to test this efficiency stuff. I used equipment that I routinely use and have over a years’ experience with. I used what I consider to be a middle of the road blade, soap, aftershave, and brush. The blade stayed the same for all six shaves. The brush, soap, and aftershave were different between the two tests but remained the same for each of the 3 shaves for that particular set. Below, I have posted pictures of the kits used.
The reason for the length of the test (considering I shave everyday) is in order to keep all factors the same there are only 4 days a week that I can control that. I used shaving for work as my test scenario. I shave at 0130 - 0200 and retire for the night at 1830 – 1900. My prep was the same each time. I did not measure my water temp but it’s fair to say it was close enough.
My technique was identical each time. I did a 2 pass shave with a full lathering at the onset of each pass. I did 1 WTG and 1 XTG. I know that there are BBS hunters out there but I have no need for that except on a couple occasions per year. I find a DFS is all I need in almost every aspect of my life.
This was never intended to compare razors, razor models, or blades. I happen to have two razors with 3 different plates of increasing gap that I am quite proficient in using. The intent was only to evaluate efficiency across the plates as they increased gaps.
My kits were:
The results:
Both day 1 shaves with the Yates M and Lupo 58 were the same. I felt like by the time I arrived at work, I needed to shave. I did not give the appearance that I had not shaved, but it just felt that way to the touch. I would never go to work unshaven so I might have been being a bit hypercritical. At the 8 hour mark, I would have shaved again if I had gone out and needed to be presentable. At bedtime, I the stubble was uncomfortable against my pillow. In all fairness, I own both of these particular plates to shave my head with only on a regular basis. They are not face plates for me.
Both Day 2 shaves with the Yates H and Lupo 72 were excellent shaves. I was actually surprised at how good both of these shave were when I was actually paying attention. I got a more efficient shave with the Yates but I think the comfort edge went to the Lupo. I felt like I had a DFS when I got to work and that feeling maintained for most of the 8 hours. I would have been presentable going out after 8 hours with no issues. At bedtime both shaves were fine. No excessive stubble to deal with outside normal daily growth.
The biggest difference was the day 3 shave. If this had been a compairison of razors, I would have had to order a Lupo 1.27 plate and a new EH plate from Yates in a scalloped bar. There is a lot of difference between the highest plate I own for these tow razors. That said, I felt that both day 3 shaves were far closer than the day 2 shaves. I arrived at work with a DFS+ level shave. I noticed several spots which were close to BBS level that I had not gotten with the other shaves. There were also spots that were irritated. Not many but some that were not there on the other days. At 8 hours I would have been fine going to any event outside of a black-tie event but I would have suffered some shaving again at that time. At bedtime, I felt some stubble but easily the least of the 3 days.
I shaved at the same speed all 6 shaves. I had no weepers and only nicked myself once on day 2 with the Lupo 72. It was a very odd for me nick, a vertical slice nick on my Adams apple. I cannot recall ever cutting myself like that before.
So based on, “Efficient: what is capable of producing desired results without wasting materials, time, or energy” in my opinion I would have to say yes that as you increase your gap you get a more efficient razor/shave as compared to all other factors being equal. Is a Yates more efficient than a Lupo? Of course it is IN A GIVEN SITUATION. The same can be said in reverse. Is a 19 oz framing hammer more efficient than a 28 oz? For me, it sure is. Even at my peak I could not wield a 28 oz hammer all day, but I could a 19 oz. Sure I took a few extra swings at each nail but I could do that all day. The given tool in a given hand will produce different results. I think proficiency is more important than efficiency for the vast majority of us. The folks at Stirling used to make a "Hyper-Aggressive" DE Razor - . Was this a more efficient razor that a Lopu 95? You bet your butt on it. Was I proficient with it, hell no. This thing was the DR Brush Mower of the wet shaving world. For me, this was an incredibly inefficient razor because I never got proficient with it. Had I been willing to put in the time, effort, and blood letting to get proficient with it, I’m sure this monster would be the most efficient DE razor I own. Maybe when I retire, I’ll take it on as a learning project. The bottom line to my little “in my own opinion and experience” test is, if you want an efficient razor buy a razor that matches the steepness you naturally shave at and then get proficient with it. If you have a heavy beard you are going to need more gap. Mastering the different weights, balances, angle of attack, and material of different brands has little to do with the gap and blade exposure. Gap and blade exposure are what make a razor more efficient than others. You have to get proficient mastering the tool then the tools ability will shine though.
Why do we shave and what are we trying to achieve? I did quite a bit of reading and this answer has changed throughout the years. I assumed for this test that physical appearance was the end goal. I know that for most of us, this is a hobby and that changes the reason some but I had to baseline this somewhere. I decided that my baseline was could I be presentable at a formal meeting 8 hours after I shaved and how did the stubble on my face feel prior to going to bed 17 -18 hours after shaving. This assessment was purely qualitative as I do not know how to measure either of these factors quantitatively.
Efficient: what is capable of producing desired results without wasting materials, time, or energy.
Proficient: able to do something to a higher than average standard.
I do not believe that efficiency can be evaluated by the task being performed by someone who isn’t proficient. In my opinion, In our case, in order to evaluate efficiency, the shaves must be performed by someone who is not new or inexperienced in the task.
I performed 6 shaves over 2 weeks to test this efficiency stuff. I used equipment that I routinely use and have over a years’ experience with. I used what I consider to be a middle of the road blade, soap, aftershave, and brush. The blade stayed the same for all six shaves. The brush, soap, and aftershave were different between the two tests but remained the same for each of the 3 shaves for that particular set. Below, I have posted pictures of the kits used.
The reason for the length of the test (considering I shave everyday) is in order to keep all factors the same there are only 4 days a week that I can control that. I used shaving for work as my test scenario. I shave at 0130 - 0200 and retire for the night at 1830 – 1900. My prep was the same each time. I did not measure my water temp but it’s fair to say it was close enough.
My technique was identical each time. I did a 2 pass shave with a full lathering at the onset of each pass. I did 1 WTG and 1 XTG. I know that there are BBS hunters out there but I have no need for that except on a couple occasions per year. I find a DFS is all I need in almost every aspect of my life.
This was never intended to compare razors, razor models, or blades. I happen to have two razors with 3 different plates of increasing gap that I am quite proficient in using. The intent was only to evaluate efficiency across the plates as they increased gaps.
My kits were:
- Yates 921 Ti with:
- M Plate, Solid Bar, Gap .025” (.64mm), Exposure Neutral
- H Plate, Scallop Bar, Gap .040” (1.0mm), Exposure .003” (.077mm)
- EH Plate, Open Comb, Gap .050” (1.27mm), Exposure .009” (.229mm)
- Astra Superior Platinum Blade used once for each shave then replaced
- Ogallala Bay Rum Shave Soap
- Ogallala Bay Rum Aftershave
- Zenith 501A SE Shave Brush
- RazoRock Lupo, SS with:
- Lupo 58 Plate, Safety Bar, Gap .58mm (.023”), Exposure Positive
- Lupo 72 Plate, Safety Bar, Gap .72mm (.028”), Exposure Positive
- Lupo 95 Plate Open Comb, Gap .95mm (.037”), Exposure Positive
- Astra Superior Platinum Blade used once for each shave then replaced
- Chiseled Face Natural Shave Soap
- Chiseled Face Natural Aftershave
- Semogue Galahad C3 Shave Brush
The results:
Both day 1 shaves with the Yates M and Lupo 58 were the same. I felt like by the time I arrived at work, I needed to shave. I did not give the appearance that I had not shaved, but it just felt that way to the touch. I would never go to work unshaven so I might have been being a bit hypercritical. At the 8 hour mark, I would have shaved again if I had gone out and needed to be presentable. At bedtime, I the stubble was uncomfortable against my pillow. In all fairness, I own both of these particular plates to shave my head with only on a regular basis. They are not face plates for me.
Both Day 2 shaves with the Yates H and Lupo 72 were excellent shaves. I was actually surprised at how good both of these shave were when I was actually paying attention. I got a more efficient shave with the Yates but I think the comfort edge went to the Lupo. I felt like I had a DFS when I got to work and that feeling maintained for most of the 8 hours. I would have been presentable going out after 8 hours with no issues. At bedtime both shaves were fine. No excessive stubble to deal with outside normal daily growth.
The biggest difference was the day 3 shave. If this had been a compairison of razors, I would have had to order a Lupo 1.27 plate and a new EH plate from Yates in a scalloped bar. There is a lot of difference between the highest plate I own for these tow razors. That said, I felt that both day 3 shaves were far closer than the day 2 shaves. I arrived at work with a DFS+ level shave. I noticed several spots which were close to BBS level that I had not gotten with the other shaves. There were also spots that were irritated. Not many but some that were not there on the other days. At 8 hours I would have been fine going to any event outside of a black-tie event but I would have suffered some shaving again at that time. At bedtime, I felt some stubble but easily the least of the 3 days.
I shaved at the same speed all 6 shaves. I had no weepers and only nicked myself once on day 2 with the Lupo 72. It was a very odd for me nick, a vertical slice nick on my Adams apple. I cannot recall ever cutting myself like that before.
So based on, “Efficient: what is capable of producing desired results without wasting materials, time, or energy” in my opinion I would have to say yes that as you increase your gap you get a more efficient razor/shave as compared to all other factors being equal. Is a Yates more efficient than a Lupo? Of course it is IN A GIVEN SITUATION. The same can be said in reverse. Is a 19 oz framing hammer more efficient than a 28 oz? For me, it sure is. Even at my peak I could not wield a 28 oz hammer all day, but I could a 19 oz. Sure I took a few extra swings at each nail but I could do that all day. The given tool in a given hand will produce different results. I think proficiency is more important than efficiency for the vast majority of us. The folks at Stirling used to make a "Hyper-Aggressive" DE Razor - . Was this a more efficient razor that a Lopu 95? You bet your butt on it. Was I proficient with it, hell no. This thing was the DR Brush Mower of the wet shaving world. For me, this was an incredibly inefficient razor because I never got proficient with it. Had I been willing to put in the time, effort, and blood letting to get proficient with it, I’m sure this monster would be the most efficient DE razor I own. Maybe when I retire, I’ll take it on as a learning project. The bottom line to my little “in my own opinion and experience” test is, if you want an efficient razor buy a razor that matches the steepness you naturally shave at and then get proficient with it. If you have a heavy beard you are going to need more gap. Mastering the different weights, balances, angle of attack, and material of different brands has little to do with the gap and blade exposure. Gap and blade exposure are what make a razor more efficient than others. You have to get proficient mastering the tool then the tools ability will shine though.
if I can get DFS in 2-passes,
and no touch-ups,
then I consider that razor "efficient".
I do not own a razor that I can get BBS in 2-passes, however.
That would be *really* efficient. ;-P
and no touch-ups,
then I consider that razor "efficient".
I do not own a razor that I can get BBS in 2-passes, however.
That would be *really* efficient. ;-P
I sense the presence of a fellow nerd in the force.
Similar threads
