Big brushes shootout (pic heavy)

[alfredus]

Thank you so much for this review - no I am even more confused about what (if any) badger brush to go for - but in a very good way

I know a lot of people (me inlcuded) have some experience with boar brushes - but not with badger - I guess mostly because of money constraints. However I would love to have a review like this - that included 1 or 2 of the most commong large boar brushes - so maybe an Omega 49 or 48 and a Semogue SOC or 2000.

Is there any chance you could do that?

 

[bosseb]

However I would love to have a review like this - that included 1 or 2 of the most commong large boar brushes - so maybe an Omega 49 or 48 and a Semogue SOC or 2000.

Is there any chance you could do that?

Unfortunately I stopped using boars a few years ago, after the SOC - but I'm sure there are a lot of members that can chime in on this. The debate of boar vs badger is hot, but unfortunately I'm not a part of it.

You are right about the money constraints - these brushes are really very provocatively expensive, I do realize that. Unfortunately my next shootout will be on four of my 2 bands, as soon as I have received and broken in the LE 2014 brush. There you have extreme prices and totally unpredictable knots!

 

[grantmm]

This is a comparison of the six big brushes I use. I believe brushes are better compared than reviewed alone. It is easier for a reviewer to communicate his opinion if he describes the brushes in comparison with other brushes. My comparison is intended for members contemplating what brushes they want to go to.

My other brush comparisons can be read here: (small brushes); http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/359040-Stick-brushes-shootout (synthetic brushes); http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/392181-Synthetic-brush-shootout


I have been DE shaving full time for just short of 8 years (and part time since 1980) and tested quite a few brushes along the way, mostly ad hoc. I have finally arrived at this check list on brush properties (which I have shamelessly copied from an ancient B&B post!). This is my strategy for brush comparisons and it is highly subjective. Your mileage will vary!


My way of shaving consists of a shower , face wash with an appropriate soap to exfoliate, brush soaking in cold water during shower, cold water shaving with 2+ passes (XTG, ATG + clean up), cold water rinse and an AS. I pick up the soap from a puck or apply the puck or stick directly to my face. I apply extra moisturizer once a week or daily during cold/dry season. I shave every day and all my shaves for the last five years have been BBS.

Anderson, Shavemac, Morris & Forndran, Kent, Pur Tech and Simpsons loft and height comparison




​

I use the following bigger brushes: Geoff Anderson custom 24/49 mm WSP 2 band, Shavemac 27/51 mm custom 3 band D01, M&F 25/50 mm ‘Chief’ Blonde Badger, Kent BK8 26/54 mm 3 band , no name Pur Tech 30,5/56 mm STF2 synthetic and finally a Somerset era Simpsons BAC 25/50 mm TGN 2 band.

Since the vendor of the Pur Tech brush is banned on B&B I will not name him out of respect for the members and mods. All measurements are made by me using my calipers. Please also note that the Anderson maybe isn’t totally broken in yet, so it might develop in softness and water retention.

For a brush to qualify into my den I have to consider it my desert island brush and furthermore it has to add something unique to the existing mix. As you might have realized I enjoy diversity in brushes.

The comparison of these brushes inevitably ends up being divided into two bands and others. The practical difference between two bands and other brushes is so huge that this aspect demands this division, as is evident from the face feeling section below!

It is up to the reader to decide which features of a brush are the most important. Here are mine:


Face feeling


of the brush on my face is the most important property to me. I don’t want any scritch! The face feeling of the brush is a determined by its knot. Loft (hi – low), profile (fan – bulb), bristles (2/3 band – synth), backbone and density. The density is the most elusive characteristic of the knot even though a simple amount of grams of used bristles would be very informative for the customer.

The softest tips is on the Pur Tech, hands down. Synthetic fibers in a sparse knot are in a class of their own in this respect. Oddly enough I think that the least soft tips are on the Kent, in spite of its reputation. Please note that this brush is of the newer non floppy batches.

The size (or rather focus) is an aspect of the brush that assists in its intended use on the face. If a brush lacks focus on the skin it is not easy to spread the paste or build the lather.

The biggest feeling on the face is that of the Shavemac. It truly has the ‘wall of badger’ feeling without splaying out from the face. This is of course because of the fan shape of the knot and the density.

The smallest face feeling is that of the Simpsons. In spite of having the same measurements as the ‘Chief’ it has a much more bulbous loft, better backbone and far sparser knot.

The least focus is by far that in the Pur Tech. This is because of the sparse knot and the bristle type.


Face feeling, softness: Pur Tech, Shavemac, M&F, Anderson, Simpsons and Kent
Face feeling, focus: Simpsons, M&F, Anderson, Kent, Shavemac and Pur Tech.


Lathering

For me the lather building and release are the second most important characteristics of a brush. The size, loft, material and density of the knot are important properties in this respect.

For many this must come as a shock but the best lather maker of them all is the Pur Tech. The not so well filled Chubby style knot has an ease in the lather building that none of the others can equal in my usage. The three bands are better at this than the two bands.

The best release of lather (with a very small margin) has the Simpsons. The two bands release better than the three bands by their nature, as does the synthetic.


Lather making: Pur Tech, Shavemac, Kent, M&F, Anderson and Simpsons
Lather release: Simpsons, Pur Tech, M&F, Anderson, Kent and Shavemac

Shavemac, Kent and Pur Tech

​

Backbone


is dependent on what material the knot is made of and how the loft is set, in height and density. The backbone of a brush is important in assisting to pick up the soap from the puck and spreading it on the face. A weak backbone will result in unintended splaying and potential harming of the brush while building lather.
This is a no brainer: The TGN knot on the Simpsons has the strongest backbone of them all with a considerable margin. What surprises me is that the difference of the backbone between the Anderson and the Kent is so small. Please note that the Anderson might not be properly broken in yet and because of that it might lose some of the backbone still.


Backbone: Simpsons, Shavemac, M&F, Pur Tech, Anderson and Kent

Anderson, M&F and Simpsons. NB the Anderson is wet!

​

Knot

is responsible for the bloom, and for the amount of water and soap a brush holds.

This is where the three bands rule! The Shavemac holds the largest amount of water and soap very closely followed by the Kent. Two bands are left behind because of the nature and size of the knot. For being such a big knot the Pur Tech holds very little water. On the other hand it does not need much water or soap to make very good lather. Please keep in mind that I cold water shave, so no problem with heath retention here!

Be advised that only Shavemac, M&F, Pur Tech and Kent use their own in house made knots. The Simpsons knot is a TGN, the Anderson is a WSP (same source as Kent uses).


Water and soap capacity: Shavemac, Kent, M&F, Anderson, Simpsons and Pur Tech


Handle


aesthetics and comfort is a very personal choice. I use all my brushes for face lathering and this usage calls for a rather compact handle. The total height of the brush should not be too tall or it will be uncomfortable to hold to the face.

The Simpsons handle has really surprised me. It’s quite comfortable for face lathering although I had presumed it was more aimed at bowl lathering. This butterscotch Somerset era Colonel handle is one size bigger than the ordinary X2L and it weighs a lot more. It was custom made to B Altman & Co (BAC) on 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Avenue in New York City in the late forties or early fifties. The butterscotch is the darkest I have seen.

I have to admit that I am partial to the octagonal handle by Shavemac in their own brush and in the Anderson (yes – Bernt supplies the Anderson handle!). This is my all-time favorite in handles and I still get a tear in my eye thinking of my Thäter 4125 I traded for a razor.


Handle comfort: Anderson, Shavemac, M&F, Simpsons, Pur Tech and Kent

My best handle, the Anderson custom​

Conclusion


I have used to complain that the Simpsons line of best badger knots is inconsistent over time. I have to admit that compared to the predictability of the two band knots on the market the Simpsons are quite consistent. What I’m trying to say is that there is no standard for what to call badger hair and there is a tendency to invent new classes of badger to imply a better quality.

The only way to get what you want is to handle the brushes before you buy them. But even then you won’t know how the knot will feel after break in!

The intention of this comparison is to give you an idea of what is out there and how I evaluate these brushes in my personal usage. By dividing up my thoughts I hope to give you a tool to do the same.

Beautiful collection.

Who does this?!

 

[bosseb]

Who does this?!

Well, I'm sure not all members realize the impact of quoting whole posts....

 

[alfredus]

Unfortunately I stopped using boars a few years ago, after the SOC - but I'm sure there are a lot of members that can chime in on this. The debate of boar vs badger is hot, but unfortunately I'm not a part of it.

You are right about the money constraints - these brushes are really very provocatively expensive, I do realize that. Unfortunately my next shootout will be on four of my 2 bands, as soon as I have received and broken in the LE 2014 brush. There you have extreme prices and totally unpredictable knots!

I think boar brushes are a great way to learn about your personal likes and dislikes - as they are cheap and you don't have to break the bank to try out different ones. Once you know what you like (and what not) - it would be great to be able to translate this boar knowledge into badger lingo.

The problem at this stage is, it is really hard to get good info, as most posts turn very quickly into the whole what is better discussion. Also a lot of people tend to be very subjective with their gear - which of course in understandable - but it is rare to find somebody like you - who does the comparison so methodically and objectivity.

Of course it is your opinion, but you add the facts as well, which is very useful.

So then unfortunately there are not so many people left, who have the experience with such a large amount of (super expensive) large badger brushes and the restraint to compare them so objectively and also have a decent experience with boar brushes...

Anyway this would be for me one of the greates points of interest at the moment - so I thought I'd give it a try

 

[bosseb]

I think boar brushes are a great way to learn about your personal likes and dislikes - as they are cheap and you don't have to break the bank to try out different ones. Once you know what you like (and what not) - it would be great to be able to translate this boar knowledge into badger lingo.

The problem at this stage is, it is really hard to get good info, as most posts turn very quickly into the whole what is better discussion. Also a lot of people tend to be very subjective with their gear - which of course in understandable - but it is rare to find somebody like you - who does the comparison so methodically and objectivity.

Of course it is your opinion, but you add the facts as well, which is very useful.

So then unfortunately there are not so many people left, who have the experience with such a large amount of (super expensive) large badger brushes and the restraint to compare them so objectively and also have a decent experience with boar brushes...

Anyway this would be for me one of the greates points of interest at the moment - so I thought I'd give it a try

I totally agree with this - people seem to get very agitated about their shaving equipment.

I can tell you that I was a very content user of boars just a few years ago. I used them with the P160 croap and was fully satisfied with the results. I learned to achieve daily BBS shaves with my boars.

Then my boars seemed to change and I didn't realize this. Boars have a limited lifespan so I gradually drifted in the direction of horse brushes (most of which I didn't get along with) and simpler badger brushes. I was trying to maintain my good shaves all the way. Total disaster came when I realized that the P160 was discontinued and my boars were not what they used to be.

At this point I had to re-evaluate my shaving. I took a deep breath and jumped into the badgers.

In hindsight it would have been easier to just stay with the boars since the step to high end badgers is very big and ridiculously expensive.

I must confess that what turned me away from boars was actually the fact that I could not stand the scent of Cella and that my wife gave my newly bought boar 'the look' in a hotel room in Lisboa, when I was trying to break it in. No more boars for me!

So my advice would be to learn to achieve the ultimate shaving experience and check for info on B&B.

The good shave has very little to do with the equipment, it's all technique anyway IMHO.

Some of my older brushes​

 

[alfredus]

I totally agree with this - people seem to get very agitated about their shaving equipment.

I can tell you that I was a very content user of boars just a few years ago. I used them with the P160 croap and was fully satisfied with the results. I learned to achieve daily BBS shaves with my boars.

Then my boars seemed to change and I didn't realize this. Boars have a limited lifespan

So my advice would be to learn to achieve the ultimate shaving experience and check for info on B&B.

The good shave has very little to do with the equipment, it's all technique anyway IMHO.

Sorry for chopping up your last post - but these are the points I want to talk about...trying not to have the what is better discussion - just maybe a small what is justified (for me)?

Anyway: I have had only one badger brush so far (EJ Medium in Best I think) - and although it served me well for a couple of months, after getting my first boar (Omega 49) and subsequent boars (SOC, B&B Essential and Semogue 2000 - with another Omega waiting to be opened) - I never used the badger and eventually sold it. It was not as soft as my boars on my face, more floppy and couldn't hold as much lather.

Now I am at a point were I think I might be missing out on something by reading posts like yours about badger. Don't get me wrong, I continuously get a BBS shave with my boars and love the feel of my Omega (not so much my SOC and the 2000 is not yet fully broken in).

The reasons for going badger I have read so far: nicer feel on the face (very valid for me) and larger water retention. The later is irrelevant IMO, because the 5 min soaking period does not justify (for me) getting a 300$ instead of a 10$. And even then my boars hold too much water anyway...

I have not heard the lifespan argument until now - but even if it is true - it still would not justify (for me) spending 300$ on a brush - for that money I could get 30 years each year a new boar (not looking at compounding etc.) and my Omega 49 is ~1 and still going great so...

What would justify (again for me) paying a large sum for a badger is performance and face feel. Exactly the points you made: how does it feel on the face, how easy does it lather (maybe not so important- again lathering 1 min longer does not justify for me), quality of the lather produced and release of lather by the brush.

So my real question would be: does a (comparable) badger produces superior lather quality and feel better on your face? Those would be (again for me) justifiable reasons to take out a mortgage for a big badger.

I again totally agree with you: the choice of brush (if it is a decent boar or badger) should not make any difference in the outcome of your shave. It makes only a difference in the feel during the shave (unless of course you don't know what you are doing with the brush).

 

[chamm]

This would be my advice if you're unsure about taking the premium badger plunge: do it right. As I said earlier, I've got some premium boars and some premium badgers. I prefer my nicest badgers, but not by a huge margin. My boars get plenty of use, and variety is the spice of life, right?

Many people make the mistake of jumping timidly into badgers. They might get a $35 - $50 brush because those are the cheapest "super" grade badgers. They're not bad, but they're just not in the same league as the top-tier brushes. You might get one and say "meh... It's about the same as a medium boar." and declare your experiment a failure. But you're not getting the "premium" badger experience, and you've wasted $50.

Here's a better strategy: get a really nice badger brush. For a regular boar user, I would recommend a Thäter 4125/2 two-band fan. I recommend this brush for a few specific reasons: One, it's readily in stock at a few U.S. retailers. That's actually probably the most important reason. Two, it will absolutely give you the full "premium brush" experience. There are many, many other truly great high end brushes out there, but you'll likely have to work a little harder to get your hands on those. Make sure you want to go down this road first. Which brings me to three, if you decide that premium badgers are overrated, you can likely sell it on B/S/T for 90%+ of what you paid for it. It should cost you in the neighborhood of $165 shipped, which is a lot of money, but if you don't like it, you won't lose much money on it. It might cost you $20 to try it out, but you'll have no doubts about whether you might be a badger man. Just be sure to give it some quality time. Badgers don't take quite as much break-in time as boars, but 5 shaves might or might not be enough to judge.

 

[bosseb]

Many people make the mistake of jumping timidly into badgers.
Here's a better strategy: get a really nice badger brush.

Very well put!

Wrong way




Right way​

The Thäter recommendation above might be right for you. I would recommend one of the Shavemacs from here: http://www.shavemac.com/products/Experts/Shaving-Brush-EXPERTS-SELECT.html?currency=USD .

Specifically I would recommend the one to the left in the picture above. It's a 22/52 mm silvertip in bulb with a horn handle. You can of course choose what handle form and material you like. It's a classic silvertip with a in house made knot, everything hand made by Bernd in Germany.

 

[alfredus]

This would be my advice if you're unsure about taking the premium badger plunge: do it right. As I said earlier, I've got some premium boars and some premium badgers. I prefer my nicest badgers, but not by a huge margin. My boars get plenty of use, and variety is the spice of life, right?

Many people make the mistake of jumping timidly into badgers. They might get a $35 - $50 brush because those are the cheapest "super" grade badgers. They're not bad, but they're just not in the same league as the top-tier brushes. You might get one and say "meh... It's about the same as a medium boar." and declare your experiment a failure. But you're not getting the "premium" badger experience, and you've wasted $50.

Here's a better strategy: get a really nice badger brush. For a regular boar user, I would recommend a Thäter 4125/2 two-band fan. I recommend this brush for a few specific reasons: One, it's readily in stock at a few U.S. retailers. That's actually probably the most important reason. Two, it will absolutely give you the full "premium brush" experience. There are many, many other truly great high end brushes out there, but you'll likely have to work a little harder to get your hands on those. Make sure you want to go down this road first. Which brings me to three, if you decide that premium badgers are overrated, you can likely sell it on B/S/T for 90%+ of what you paid for it. It should cost you in the neighborhood of $165 shipped, which is a lot of money, but if you don't like it, you won't lose much money on it. It might cost you $20 to try it out, but you'll have no doubts about whether you might be a badger man. Just be sure to give it some quality time. Badgers don't take quite as much break-in time as boars, but 5 shaves might or might not be enough to judge.

Very well put!

The Thäter recommendation above might be right for you. I would recommend one of the Shavemacs from here: http://www.shavemac.com/products/Experts/Shaving-Brush-EXPERTS-SELECT.html?currency=USD .

Specifically I would recommend the one to the left in the picture above. It's a 22/52 mm silvertip in bulb with a horn handle. You can of course choose what handle form and material you like. It's a classic silvertip with a in house made knot, everything hand made by Bernd in Germany.

Thanks for the great recommendations guys - both Shavemac and Thäter have been on the top of my list - I am a big fan of German craftsmanship.

But I think it will be still a while before I really take the plunge - maybe a Christmas present for myself

 

[bosseb]

But I think it will be still a while before I really take the plunge - maybe a Christmas present for myself

Thank you! You have inspired me to buy a boar brush for myself. Since it's been a while I want to refresh my old fogie memory.

 

[alfredus]

Thank you! You have inspired me to buy a boar brush for myself. Since it's been a while I want to refresh my old fogie memory.

Thank you sir - and I am so much looking forward to an in depth comparison by you!

If I may suggest: Semogue 2000 - but you really have to be patient - it has been now 5 test lathers + 2 weeks of every 2nd day use to finally get the type and amount of lather I am after - but the brush is still far from being as soft as I am sure it will be one day....
On the positive side: it has definitely more backbone than the SOC I used to have...


Or the Omega 20102 - it has been sitting in my den now for almost 2 weeks - I don't like to break in 2 boars simultaneously - so it will have to wait at least another 2-3 weeks before it's first use. But for me it looks like a total winner as I love my Omega 49 and this one looks like tad denser knot with a far nicer handle!

 

[bosseb]

Thank you sir - and I am so much looking forward to an in depth comparison by you!

If I may suggest: Semogue 2000

Challenge accepted! One Semogue 2000 ordered. Should be just in time before the LE2014 2 bander arrives.

 

[Doryferon]

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/member.php/30982-bosseb@bosseb - very nice collection
Thanks for the informations from your test !

 

[Attila]

Some wonderful advice up above by bosseb and chamm. Well done gentlemen!

 

[alfredus]

Challenge accepted! One Semogue 2000 ordered. Should be just in time before the LE2014 2 bander arrives.

NICE - very excited to hear your thoughts!!!

 

[Benoni]

I'm still in my first months of wet-shaving and so far I have acquired a Simpsons Commodore X3 and a SOC Cherry. The Simpsons came with an amazingly soft and dense knot and gets daily usage, the SOC whips up any soap into a fantastic lather but isn't as soft s the badger. I'm now looking to get a more luxurious, softer and durable brush and noticed your 3-band Shavemac (Blue handle), would you recommend the exact some brush for a face-latherer or would you tweak it a bit? Would a 2-band fill my needs as well? any input is welcome!

 

[bosseb]

The blue marble Shavemac 2 band D01 is my golden reference for dense brushes. It is in for me the perfect face latherer, simply because it is custom built for me after trying out two other with the same knot type. It is however not a brush for shavers with only limited experience of wet shaving, since it is quite extreme.

For a guy learning the ways of Shavemac knots I would recommend starting the journey with a knot in finest. It is formally of the same kind as your X3 but in fact a superior brush. You can adjust the size of the knot to your preference by comparing to the X3 and the handle to your preference. The next step would be the silvertip when you have gained experience from the finest.

The beauty of the Shavemac line of knots is that they are extremely consistent and totally customizable. If you would like a purpose made handle Rudy Vey can make anything and fit a Shavemac knot at the desired loft.

A 2 bander is a really extreme brush and my advice would be to wait with that one for at least a year so you can find out what you like.

More info on the Shavemac line here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/416591-Brush-shootout-Badger-v-boar

The Shavemac custom site is here: http://www.shavemac.com/products/Experts/Shaving-Brush-EXPERTS-SELECT.html

Hope this helps!

 

[wagstaff]

I'm interested in seeing that the brush with a TGN 2-band is first for Lather Release. I had thought this was a weak point of this particular knot (from my own two TGN Finest knots, but also from what I've read elsewhere). Perhaps once the loft gets to a certain size the TGN shows stronger in this particular aspect.