70-80° angle with Mühle R41 - am I crazy ?!?

[CHSeifert]

I tried a first pass shave on my 4 days growth with Mühle R41 Grande and an Gillette 7 o'clock Blue Super Platinum and I got a fantastic DFS shave in one pass using a 70-80° angle; only the jaw line needed the extra second pass, which I did with my Feather AS-1 DE and a Feather blade.

Shave cream used for first face lather pass was Speick mixed with Erasmic (Jordan version) - great lather
Second bowl lather pass cream was new Proraso Red cream - marvelous stuff
Am I crazy for preferring this steep angle with the R41


I watched the Geo R41 video on YouTube and he also uses a very steep angle, like at least 60°......

 

[amishmotorboat]

I'm not sure how such angles can be achieved. It seems the safety bar would get in the way of that angle, and also the handle would have to pass through your face. Are we measuring the same angles here? You mean that the blade is nearly perpendicular to your face?

 

[JD.E.]

I have been curious about the angle others use as well, with my second shave with my '12 R41 I ended up settling on a pretty crazy angle (seemed to be what worked with some experimentation) and got a really smooth shave.

My first shave was not so much, I just couldn't find the right angle because I was expecting something similar to what every other DE works well with, but I ended up using something more than a 45 degree angle (can't say anything specific) and the results spoke for themsselves.

I will try to take note of exaclty what works on my next shave, but this could be a big help for those just starting out with an R41 and having a hard time with it

 

[kingfisher]

geofatboy takes what looks to me like a harsh angle no matter what razor he is using. He always seems to get a good shave and I never see any irritation, but if I used the angles he appears to be using it would take a layer of skin off that might require a face transplant.

I would never go by what I see in a geofatboy video, that's for sure.


FWIW, it seems like everybody else's posts about this razor indicate exactly the opposite; i.e., they hold the handle closer to perpendicular (rather than closer to parallel) to their faces to get the smoothest, most comfortable shave with the new R41.

 

[jamesspo]

No, not crazy..in fact in the majority I think (although I'm not in that majority). I use the R41 with about a 15 degree blade angle (handle almost parallel to floor), but many do use it in the "steep" mode. It will definitely cut hairs that way, and I think many prefer it that way because they can use the bar/combs as a nice guide/reference to help them have the blade just skirt the skin. Most have seen reduced blade life, for obvious reasons when using this way, but not a huge price to pay. Myself, I like using the R41 more like a shavette, which is what happens when you use it at a shallow angle.


Edit: Note I don't really know how many folks use it steep vs shallow, but I did do a poll a while back, and got more steep users than shallow ones..but it wasn't a very successful poll, and didn't attract many respondents, so who knows. I'm kind of just going from memory on how many I've seen using it steep vs shallow, and the steep seems to be more common.

I tried a first pass shave on my 4 days growth with Mühle R41 Grande and an Gillette 7 o'clock Blue Super Platinum and I got a fantastic DFS shave in one pass using a 70-80° angle; only the jaw line needed the extra second pass, which I did with my Feather AS-1 DE and a Feather blade.

Shave cream used for first face lather pass was Speick mixed with Erasmic (Jordan version) - great lather
Second bowl lather pass cream was new Proraso Red cream - marvelous stuff
Am I crazy for preferring this steep angle with the R41


I watched the Geo R41 video on YouTube and he also uses a very steep angle, like at least 60°......

 

[jamesspo]

The blade on the R41 is just barely curved at all, so is nearly perpendicular to the handle. Used in the way most DE's are, yes you do end up with really steep blade angles, and 70-80 degrees (with blade contact) is achievable with the handle parallel to face. I think it's common for folks to use a 65+ degree blade angle with this razor. That's not for me, but it works for others pretty well.

I'm not sure how such angles can be achieved. It seems the safety bar would get in the way of that angle, and also the handle would have to pass through your face. Are we measuring the same angles here? You mean that the blade is nearly perpendicular to your face?

 

[aimsport]

Too shallow or too light can be a problem for the R41, at least for me. The R41 2011 head is masterful at stretching and guiding the skin over the blade and across the top of the razor. The comb stretches it, and the skin glides over the blade at an angle set by the head. Going shallow can override that designed angle. If the angle is too shallow the comb doesn't do its job. Skin that goes over a comb is stretched. If too light, the looser skin can dip too far below the designed cutting plane as it passes over the blade, exacerbating the effects of blade tugging, especially in older blades.

 

[wstruth]

I use it at a steep angle. I tried shallow at first but for me it was a blood bath.

 

[bluesbishop]

I can say that my shave angle is very close to what you see Geofatboy use in his video...I don't know the exact, but it's pretty steep, and I get smooth BBS shaves with no irritation with about 2.5 passes.

 

[Codfish]

For me, steep blade angles seem to shorten blade life to a maximum of two good shaves per blade. A 20%± angle, on the other hand, gives me close, irritation-free shaves that last 3-4 good shaves. My beard is extremely wiry. Whatever works best for you is what works. I don't think there's a "correct" angle for the '41.

 

[HornHiYo]

I'm really confused. I thought shallow meant handle pointing at the floor, but I just read someone say shallow as in handle parallel to the floor (i.e. perpendicular to the face). If steep means handle pointing at the floor, I would expect less "tugging" on hairs and thus LONGER lifespan (but Codfish says steep means LESS blade life).

Which is it?

And am I right that having the safety, blade edge, and teeth gliding against the skin at once is a good angle?

 

[AABCDS]

I do pretty much perpendicular to the face, ~90 degrees.

 

[celestino]

Well, i am taking a second go at the R41 and i will see how it goes! Crazy? Possibly! The first time i tried it, i was using a 60-75 degree angle. i will see how it goes, this time. There just might be another one on the BST, soon! Hehe!

 

[MarkF]

Wasn't getting on with the R41 at all until I steepened the blade angle, I.e. moved the handle nearer parallel with my face.

 

[wimbouman]

It's really worth experimenting with the angle indeed.
I'm in the shallow camp, handle towards floor.

 

[Vickers]

This whole angle discussion drives me NUTS. Some people talk about BLADE angle, and some people talk about HANDLE angle.

I'm getting me a Bourbon.

Oh, and I have no idea what angle I use with my R41, but I had a really great shave with it yesterday. Mowed it down around 1930L, and it still feels good @ 0630L.

 

[jamesspo]

I think the only logical reference is to refer to the angle of the blade. It's the only measure that's constant across DE's, SE's, straights or any other non-electric shaving implement. Handles vary too much in geometry relative to the head to be useful as a general reference (but of course it works pretty well comparing use of the *same* razor). This is also the standard used in the B&B Shavewiki, and think by far the most commonly used method to describe angles:

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Blade_Angle

Shallow blade angle means cap closer to face, handle sticking out more.

Steep blade angle means guard closer to face, handle closer to face.

With regard to your specific question about angle, I think there isn't really a "right" angle with the R41. It has such a broad angle range because of the amount of blade exposure, that folks have used it both shallow and steep with great success. Shallow (30 or less blade angle) is the more conventional one across DE's, I would say. It's the way I use it. However, a lot of folks like the steep angle, possibly a majority of owners, because it allows them to make better use of the comb. This sounds like the way you're using it. Using it in the shallow mode, is a bit like shaving with a shavette, as you don't have much "guidance" (other than a bit from the cap), which I like.

I'm really confused. I thought shallow meant handle pointing at the floor, but I just read someone say shallow as in handle parallel to the floor (i.e. perpendicular to the face). If steep means handle pointing at the floor, I would expect less "tugging" on hairs and thus LONGER lifespan (but Codfish says steep means LESS blade life).

Which is it?

And am I right that having the safety, blade edge, and teeth gliding against the skin at once is a good angle?