I've noticed a lot of handmade shaving soaps and creams on http://www.etsy.com. I'm curious to know if anyone in the B&B community has purchased any of these soaps and what your thoughts are of them.
I've noticed a lot of handmade shaving soaps and creams on http://www.etsy.com. I'm curious to know if anyone in the B&B community has purchased any of these soaps and what your thoughts are of them.
You are correct, there are a lot. Best bet would be to ask about specific brands to see if anyone has used them. If they are not mentioned or reviewed favorably here you should probably not buy them unless you are feeling adventurous or have money to burn.
Not trying to slam the etsy soap makers as there are actually a few decent ones. Most however just throw some clay into an olive oil soap mix and call it a shaving soap which just doesn't cut it.
Great feedback Garry...ManCave1 is the only vendor I've been repeatedly looking at, and I'd like to know if anyone has used their products. I am also open to suggestions if anyone has had a great experience from any vendor on Etsy with a shave soap/cream purchase.
I've got the cedarwood (used to be called Hemingway, but its changed its name to Lost Generation) from The Shave Library on Etsy. I like it a lot. Good lather. He has a youtube vid to show you how its done. He gives a buck off to B&B members as well.
I don't believe this is accurate. Most of the better commercial soaps do have either Palm Oil or Tallow as their main ingredient, and mixtures of oils are quite common.Look at the ingredients of the better "commercial" soaps out there, and you will see very VERY few start with any real "oil", most start with a refined stearate base, so that the final results can be more closely controlled. Not that the stearic acid they start with is in any way "unnatural", not at all... But, the results are more consistent and controllable.
You don't see many of the top performing commercial soaps using straight mixtures of oils like olive, palm, etc... Yes, they often contain some, but the stuff that gives really superb lathers, often start with controlled oil sources, because "all natural" oils can vary widely in their actual makeup from season to season, year to year, one geographic location to the next...
I don't believe this is accurate. Most of the better commercial soaps do have either Palm Oil or Tallow as their main ingredient, and mixtures of oils are quite common.
I put together a spreadsheet here, based on data found here. Of the 22 well-known soaps listed, 11 list Palm Oil as their main ingredient, 6 list Tallow, and only 5 list a stearate as their main ingredient. 5 soaps contain nothing from pure stearic acid at all. This is not to downplay the importance of stearic acid; after all, tallow is 15-20% stearic acid.
This is not a jab, just honest curiosity: what is your definition of a "controlled oil" vs. an "all natural oil?"
Wow - I'm surprised you did all that on a cell phone - good job!(Trying to send a long post via cell phone is a PITA.)
Yes, all fats/oils are made up of fatty acid chains. Common ones include lauric, myristic, palmitic, stearic, oleic and linolenic acids. (Not a complete list.)Almost any vegetable, or even tallow, source is going to contain a mixture of many, many different chains of oils.
Not palmitate, but palmitic acid. Palmitate would be a salt of palmitic acid. Saying that Palm Oil is not pure "palm oil" is a little misleading. Palm Oil is defined as the oil derived from a palm, and it is naturally made up of several fatty acids. More accurate would be to say that Palm Oil is not pure palmitic acid.Palm oil is not pure "palm oil", it contains chains of fatty acids, the most predominant being what is *technically* palmitate
Very true. However, I doubt the variation would be significant enough to require analysis and adjustment of the hydroxyl to get a consistent result. Especially since the recipes good soapmakers use are a little superfatted.Those percentages are NOT set in stone, they can and *will* vary from one plant to the next, one growing region to the next, one year to the next depending on weather and growing conditions etc.
Agreed. But, while I've heard of stearic acid being available as a stand-alone ingredient, I've never heard of any of the other fatty acids being available or used in that form.When you are starting with a refined and homogenized product like a commercial "stearic acid" with a lab analyzed and controlled content of a specific molecule that you are going to react with your potassium and sodium hydroxide, you can control the end result *much* more closely and precisely than you can from an "all organic" source.
True, but AFAIK stearic acid is the only one available in a pure, refined form. And, since it's saponified stearic acid that produces such a great lather, a lot of soap makers who don't want to use tallow use pure stearic acid to reaps its benefits.I was just saying that by starting out from a solid, refined base were all the fatty acids were the same molecule, you can then adjust your soaps formulation for consistent, great results.
OK, there's seems to be a couple misunderstandings. The "-ate"s are not specific fatty acids; they're the combined salts produced by the saponification of the fats/oils. Potassium Palmate is Palm Oil saponified with Potassium Hydroxide. It's not an individual fatty acid, or even the salt of an individual one. Likewise, Sodium Palmate is Palm Oil saponified with Sodium Hydroxide. And Sodium/Potassium Palm Kernelate are the saponified forms of Palm Kernel Oil. (Tallow => Tallowate, Coconut Oil => Cocoate, etc.) Yes, Palm Oil is a mixture of several fatty acids; likewise is Sodium and/or Potassium Palmate.What I'm saying is the really good performing soaps use a *specific* fatty acid, Stearic Acid, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate etc... Not "Palm Oil" which is a mixture of more than a half dozen different chains.
Again, stearic acid is the only fatty acid I know that's available in its pure form. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.Re-reading my original post, I could have typed it better, because it reads like I meant it hat to be specifically stearic acid, and in fact could be any refined/separated oil base.
I'd love to look at some! Got any you could send me?!Look at MdC as an example in simplicity of ingredients.
No apologies necessary - I applaud you for pulling it off!(again, hard to get the full picture on a little 4 inch screen, and I apologize for that.)
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Edit: Quote from ManCave1: "Extra glycerin and bentonite clay are added" this smacks of common melt & pour soap base being doctored up for shaving. Never turns out well.
If that was the simple answer, what was the simple question?Simple answer: No.
I disagree with the general statement that a bit of glycerin and bentonite clay added to a common melt and pour soap base can't "turn out well." Depends on the quality of the original soap base. I have personally had a lot of good shaves using soaps that pretty much meet your definition. Benton Clay soaps, for example, are made from a commercially available melt-and-pour soap. Dave does a wonderful job with additives, especially with outstanding fragrances, that make these soaps very nice.
Long story short, I would not be that quick to dismiss all slightly doctored melt-and-pour soaps. Some of them are very good shaving soaps.
From what I see from *most* "artisan" soap makers isn't an emphasis on the performance of their soaps, but rather on the
"All natural, cruelty free, no animal, all vegan, hug a bunny and if you don't happen get a great shave, at least some poor cow didn't have to die to give you that nasty razor burn, and our product didn't use any genetically modified ingredients that might confuse the honey bees, and there were no pesticides used, so no swamp mosquitoes or leaches were harmed in any way in the making of this soap, and by buying and using our products, global warming will be averted and our sun won't expand to encompase the earth's orbit in another 5 billion years, so you have just contributed to saving all of humanity! Yippee, give me a big hug, dude!! " attitude.
There are high quality melt & pour soap bases that are developed from the raw materials with shaving soap in mind.I find a categorical difference between those, and soaps that are developed from the raw materials with shaving soap in mind.
If you used a melt & pour soap that wasn't intended or developed as a shaving soap as your base, I can completely understand. But, even if you did, this is one of those YMMV things.I did a homemade soap from melt and pour base with additives, and I got very usable lather, but it didn't hold a candle to the likes of Tabac or La Toja and the like.