Is DE/Straight wetshaving making a comeback.

[DunEdinRanger]

Why would Gillette (P&G) ditch the M3 after the patent expires? They could keep selling it. They would obviously lose some market share when the third parties start selling it. Can you tell that I love the M3? M3 Turbo that is

Because their profit margin would drop to the point they couldn't compete, since third parties do not pay for the massive advertising they do, or have the overhead costs they do.

 

[richmondesi]

I don't think that they would drop the Mach 3 just because the patent runs out. They would loose market share, but there is a sizable percentage of sheeple who will continue to buy the P&G cartridge just because they perceive it to be a superior brand.

 

[Pugflop]

Even when I was in Canada, I do not remember seeing anything like it. However, I was not looking for a new shaving gear so I have a tendency to ignore ads. I currently have no idea of what I can get in a pharmacy/chemist in Canada DE-wise (Brush, blades, DE razor, etc). I think the best way to go is online.

I live in Canada. You can't find anything really. You can find overpriced red packaged Gillette blades at Wal-Mart ($10 for 10!), some Williams and Wilkonson Sword shave soap at Superstore and some crappy synthetic brushes. At London Drugs you can find VDH soap and Kiss my Face creams (tube variety). At Shoppers Drug Mart you can find Proraso preshave and cream (green tube). That's it.

 

[Chacki]

Ive sat and wondered about this myself a few times just recently..
Just where the hell can Gillette go now?

They have done the whole 'shaving system' wash , gel , balm..
Any more than 6 blades is a step to far , and there's no going back in blade number after the hype...

A built in trimmers been done by Shick / Wilkinson.
Shave gel in the handles been done by another company we found (on a 6 blade no less)

They already vibrate , have an additional styling blade.

Apart from adding more aloe strips , i think they have hit a solid wall - hence in my opinion the current crop of Fusion re-textures - fusion / stealth / phenom.

Going to be interesting to see what revolution they come up with.
Either way its going to have to be something pretty out of the box..

As for Traditional wetshaving , yea its making a comeback - but as has been said earlier , its small. We are reliant on word of mouth pretty much.
But then , an exponential curve always starts slowly...
If the current financial situation carries on a few more years , Gillette / shick get stuck in a rut and continue on the high price blade model .. It may gather speed faster than expected.

I know for certain that when i started Wet shaving last year my friends all thought i was utterly mental. Lets say they are far less skeptical now.

 

[moto]

This has been a great read and many interesting view points raised.

Now that these economic times have hit us all i have noticed some gillette ads on tv stating you can shave with the fusion for $1 a week. But there is an * and some terms that i never seem to catch becuase it's over too quick.
Seems to me like their fusion isn't selling so well and now they have to try and convince people it's a cheap way to shave? When i look at the total price of the gillette/schick shave my jaw drops and i say ***. And most of the products on the chemist/supermarket shelf smell like crap or like it's made for a hospital!

Something that i have noticed also around work and hanging around friends is their faces don't seem to look so good. Unles they are the type for facials and stuff/makeup etc they look dry,blotchy and uneven colour. My skin has greatly improved and have been told so by many. This is only using proraso soap and pre/post. I'm telling these guys it can be had for cheap compared to what your paying and using and it's much more fun/relaxing. They still don't believe me. The mention of DE brings a look of pain to their faces. 1 or 2are starting to ask questions and seem interested because of the results i am getting but the majority, hmm,,,i don't know?

One thing i know about men, especially manly men like myself of course,kkkkk,
is that we don't really want to ask or say to another man, "wow your skin looks good, what are you using"? Women on the other hand will talk forever about products. But like i said before people have noticed my better looking skin and are starting to ask questions. So maybe more will start asking questions?

Word of mouth is the BEST advertising, slower but in the long run more effective. Gillette/shick and all the rest of the big companies watch out. You can fool the people sometimes but not all the time! This could be the time, considering the economic times ahead to be in the wetshaving business as people look for a cheaper and better way???

Also i think fathers will start telling their children that wetshaving is a better way so this fusion,multiblade cartridge thing might be just a fad?

There IS a better way and it's called DE/Straight wetshaving!

6 and 7 blades lmfao.

 

[Stubblefield]

Here in Australia I see no advertising about any of the products we use here, only the Gillette ads with their 5 blades and foam/gel. Why is this? What's it like in America and Europe or the rest of the world for that matter?

ZERO advertising in the US, tho you do see articles in the men's magazines. I'm of the opinion that the resurgence of wet/DE/Straight shaving is an Internet phenomenon (a good thing), and that it will continue to grow, as more and more people step outside the traditional news/advertising channels to get their information.

Besides, word of mouth is a far more effective means of advertising a product. People don't trust advertisers anymore, but they will tend to trust the opinion of someone they read on a message board.

 

[Sam Harmon]

Interestingly I amortized out the cost of DE wetshaving over two years vs. Fusion shaving over the same period. The cost is about the same (dependent upon several usage assumptions), but oh the difference in quality

Wetshaving:
New Merkur 23C--$35
Pure Badger Brush--$35
2 Tubs of TOBS SC--$30
2 Bottles of Thayer's Witch Hazel--$20
3 Bottles of SCS Aftershave splash or balm--$30
200 Red Pack Personnas delivered--$23

Total Cost: $173 or $1.66/week. Subbing some cheaper soap, Dickinson's WH, Aqua Velva and a Boar Brush would certainly bring it even lower, but I wanted to use a certain level of luxury products for comparison.

Fusion Shaving
Razor--$10
Cartridges (assuming stretching use to 1/month in this economy)--$84
Barbasol/Gillette Foamy (assuming 1 can/month: I've been using cream for 3+ years now, so I've forgotten how long a can lasted me)--$60
No Aftershave

Total Cost: $154 or $1.60/week

A bare bones, and towards the end of those cartridges probably ragged, shave costs about the same as a DE shave using one of the 3T creams and high quality aftershave products and switching blades out every 3-4 days.

Dropping the Fusion cartridge use down to 1 per week raises the per week of Fusion shaving to $4.67--still with no aftershave product. For 77 cents LESS per week, the wetshaver could substitute an excellent condition Fatboy bought on BST, a T&H Silvertip brush and Penhaligon's SS (1 in wooden bowl; 1 refill) and Penhaligon's ASB!

 

[Ernie]

Sam, when you say 1/month, do you mean to say that one could use only one cartridge for an entire month? Or one pack a month? I know that in my case, I could not use one cartridge longer than one week.

Your cost for DE shaving is also raised through the use of witch hazel and asb, whereas you don't include those for the fusion cost.

Overall, I do think that DE shaving is cheaper in the long run, even if you spend $100+ on the intial equipment (razor + brush + bowl).

 

[Sam Harmon]

Sam, when you say 1/month, do you mean to say that one could use only one cartridge for an entire month? Or one pack a month? I know that in my case, I could not use one cartridge longer than one week.

Your cost for DE shaving is also raised through the use of witch hazel and asb, whereas you don't include those for the fusion cost.

Overall, I do think that DE shaving is cheaper in the long run, even if you spend $100+ on the intial equipment (razor + brush + bowl).

I am basing the assumption on 1 cartridge per month, which is a massive stretch I know. I used to get about 3 weeks per cartridge (probably shaved 5 times per week) with no more irritation than with a new cartridge.

I deliberately left the AS out of the Fusion example to show that for the same amount of $$/week, one could get a total shave experience with a certain degree of luxury (badger brush, TOBS cream, ASB) that one could get with the most frugal, stripped down Fusion experience.

 

[Ernie]

I see. That makes sense.

 

[mparker762]

I hate to be all doom and gloom here, but I think that DE wetshaving is dying out in the US. Yes there are more enthusiasts here on this forum every year, but we're still a very small group - we are concentrated in a few forums which makes it seem like there are more of us than there really are. Meanwhile the guys that learned with the DE and Injector and never switched to the cartridges are dying off from old age. They just used their old trusty fatboy and US Personnas or Gillettes and Williams soap and a beat-up old badger brush, and didn't blather on about it on the internet, but they bought blades and soap and the late lamented Palmolive shaving cream.

 

[xeemz]

Interestingly I amortized out the cost of DE wetshaving over two years vs. Fusion shaving over the same period. The cost is about the same (dependent upon several usage assumptions), but oh the difference in quality

Wetshaving:
New Merkur 23C--$35
Pure Badger Brush--$35
2 Tubs of TOBS SC--$30
2 Bottles of Thayer's Witch Hazel--$20
3 Bottles of SCS Aftershave splash or balm--$30
200 Red Pack Personnas delivered--$23

Total Cost: $173 or $1.66/week. Subbing some cheaper soap, Dickinson's WH, Aqua Velva and a Boar Brush would certainly bring it even lower, but I wanted to use a certain level of luxury products for comparison.

Fusion Shaving
Razor--$10
Cartridges (assuming stretching use to 1/month in this economy)--$84
Barbasol/Gillette Foamy (assuming 1 can/month: I've been using cream for 3+ years now, so I've forgotten how long a can lasted me)--$60
No Aftershave

Total Cost: $154 or $1.60/week

A bare bones, and towards the end of those cartridges probably ragged, shave costs about the same as a DE shave using one of the 3T creams and high quality aftershave products and switching blades out every 3-4 days.

Dropping the Fusion cartridge use down to 1 per week raises the per week of Fusion shaving to $4.67--still with no aftershave product. For 77 cents LESS per week, the wetshaver could substitute an excellent condition Fatboy bought on BST, a T&H Silvertip brush and Penhaligon's SS (1 in wooden bowl; 1 refill) and Penhaligon's ASB!

You forgot to compare the cost for year 2. This is where you don't have to reinvest in a new razor/brush/bowl. And you still have the blades that will last a few years. Unless you switch blades everyday, 200 blades will last a while. However, you'd still be buying fusion cartridges in year 2.

 

[Lcdeddo]

Its funny, I mean I know the effort has always been on getting you to Buy their particular brand of Blade. but I think Gillette is really missing an opportunity to build or re-manufacture their vintage razors. They could easily sell a HIGH Quality razor today for $80-$120 USD. along with all the possible accessories brushes, soaps, creams etc.

I remember when they came out with the double edge design- I bought into it. when they went for 3 blades I got real suspicious. at four I was laughing, 5 and six blades seems to be ridiculous to me. Its all marketing. and belies common sense. I have since gone back to DE shaving and have been amazed at the quality of the shaves after so many years with just putting up with mediocrity and poor quality overall in the "Drug store" quality available to most of us. As for the HI-Tech, I have kidded to my wife that I am holding out for the 8 Blade version, hopefully with an LCD readout, and It should be able to sync with my computer. Preferable compatible with Mac OS X.
So many of todays products are vastly inferior to older products. They need you to keep buying into the marketing, filling the land-fills with their plastic-fantastic ergonomic CRAP.
Also the modern companies that make DE products I never see advertising for them. Not sure why. If the market is small it is only because MOST people don't even consider it- they are not aware. Maybe we will see more advertising of this in the future. I hope so.

 

[SavantStrike]

If you see that advertising, you'll see it when the M3 is no longer under patent. I know some people here think Gillette will keep making the M3 after the patent expires, but I guarantee they will drop it the first time a competitor introduces a third party cartridge into the market.

 

[Sam Harmon]

Its funny, I mean I know the effort has always been on getting you to Buy their particular brand of Blade. but I think Gillette is really missing an opportunity to build or re-manufacture their vintage razors. They could easily sell a HIGH Quality razor today for $80-$120 USD. along with all the possible accessories brushes, soaps, creams etc.

The problem is that the P&G mentality would never allow them to do it in the right way. Oh sure, they'd love to get your $100 for Fatboy 2.0. There's just no way that they would produce them to anywhere near the same standards. They'd still engineer it in the cheapest (i.e. most profitale) way possible and then farm it out to some Chinese factory which would inevitably cut every off the books corner they could to make a little additional money.

That and doing so in the first place--even with a primarily nostalgia based ad campaign--would call into question the entire cartridge Potemkin Village.

I see the current Gillette Fusion marketing to be rather schizophrenic and scared. On one hand, they're begging you to switch to the Fusion with the ridiculous $1/week claims while at the same time have a parallel campaign urging you to discard your blades quicker to get a better shave.

 

[Sam Harmon]

Back to the original topic, I don't see a huge upsurge in DE popularity. My friends--even the guys who have impeccable taste in watches, cars, clothing and furniture--look at me like I'm insane when I talk about DE shaving, and don't even think about getting them to show any interest in straights.

Then again, most of these guys don't understand my collecting vintage 58-64 (dawn of the 707 era) airline travel posters.

If there is any "gateway" to making it happen, I would suggest it's selling them on the notion of high quality brush/cream usage. Then, perhaps, they would inevitably find their way to dumping the cartridge. It's the path that I went down.

 

[Didero]

I don't see a sudden rise in DE interest, but I do think DE/straight shavers are finally banding together in places like this. I do hear a lot of grumbling about the Fusion.

 

[techdog]

The only advertisement I have see for DE or straight shaving was an online commercial by classicshaving.com. I heard someone say they saw it on the ESPN channel but never saw it myself. You can see it at the link below.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=76237&highlight=commercial

 

[Sam Harmon]

I don't see a sudden rise in DE interest, but I do think DE/straight shavers are finally banding together in places like this. I do hear a lot of grumbling about the Fusion.

Definitely agree with the grumbling--if not outright rejection--towards the Fusion. Unfortunately, electrics seem to be the route most guys are taking. Anyone have any data on electric razor sales growth or declines since the introduction of the Fusion?

 

[grouse79]

Back to the original topic, I don't see a huge upsurge in DE popularity. My friends--even the guys who have impeccable taste in watches, cars, clothing and furniture--look at me like I'm insane when I talk about DE shaving, and don't even think about getting them to show any interest in straights.

I'd say most people under the age of, say, 50? probably don't really know what a double edged razor is. For sure for me, this time last year, aged 28, it was a revelation. I genuinely thought that the cartridge razor was like the original safety razor, except with more plastic.

Question is, if DE is dying out, how do Merkur, et al and the other multitude of blade manufacturers make their money? They must have twigged there was still a market for them somewhere.