Yates Precision... More Broken Promises and lost business for RE in the future.

[DesertIguana]

I have heard from several people who are position to know.

Jake’s down fall started with Build Your Own Options, and too many choices.

Three Metal is Three sets of tooling to machine.

Great options for customer, but pain for person doing work.

Some how Wolfman does it well, how? Don’t know.

Karve recently changed their process to building stock Razor, and selling em. Total custom is no longer offered.

 

[Rob72]

I could be wrong @spacemonkey42 , but I'm not sure how it's RE's responsibility to fulfill orders placed with Yates. Not trying to defend the guy, but he was looking for equipment for a long time so that he could move his own production in house. As it happened, Yates was going out of business and had that equipment, so that presented an opportunity for RE. If anything, Jake should've made an agreement with Matt to fulfill all outstanding orders within a given time frame before transferring all the equipment. It's possible that he did so and still wasn't able to fulfill the orders. He could've had hundreds of orders still outstanding. Either way I feel like this whole debacle was a case of poor business management and practices on the part of Yates.

IMHO, I don't think it's fair to expect a business to eat the loss for errors made on the part of another. Would it be nice? Sure. Would it be a good play on the part of RE? Sure it would. But if General Motors went out of business, for example, and Ford purchased all of their equipment. Would the onus be on Ford to complete any outstanding orders that GM had? I don't know. I know some had their heart set on a Yates razor, but as long as they get a full refund, I'm not sure what else could be done. I just hope that people with outstanding orders get their money back.

Purchasing out of bankruptcy pretty much always entails purchase of the outstanding debt, e.g., unfulfilled orders, purchase-contracts, etc., and some of that (debt) may be mandated or regulated in business law within the State of transaction.

If the Yates decision was Court mandated, those generic rules apply. If it was hurridly done to stave off a bankruptcy filing, see below.

Purchasing The Name/rights and not fulfilling outstanding orders (or refunding) follows the 70/30 rule of shell-game business- we can whizz on 30% of the clients, as long as 70% let us maintain liquidity. When that ceases, we liquidate the asstes held under The Name, and purchase or transfer (most common in non-bankruptcy settings) to the Parent Company and absolve ourselves of outstanding debt, as The Name could not sustain itself. E.g., we got your money and it will cost waaayy more in legal fees than it's worth to reclaim.

We shall see...

 

[DesertIguana]

Simple search shows:

Yates Precision Manufacturing, LLC (6566595)

So as I suspect Yates is an LLC.

So that is what businesses do LLC’s to protect owner, Corporation is just paper, and good way to protect person wealth, or money.

 

[WThomas0814]

Unless someone has seen the court documents, and has disclosure permission, speculating on bankruptcy in print could open up a true jackpot for B&B, as well as those doing the speculation.

Please stop.

Jake indicated that running the razor business was taking a toll on his family. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Dimitri]

If Ford accepteed the responsibility, promised to fulfill the orders then couldnt, yes it's a black mark on Ford.

If I were Ford, and had no experience using new equipment and producing that product, I'd wouldn't tell people they can expect their orders.

Yates would do well to make sure people got their refunds .... the were a cool company and I'd like to see them end on a high note.

What you say is true, but at this point we don't know what agreements or contracts they had made?
Did RE tell people they can expect their orders from them? Based on the post by spacemonkey it reads:

"...We want to assure all Yates Precision customers that Jake will personally complete all outstanding orders from his existing shop, where most of the original machinery remains..."

Considering that Jake was going to be the one completing the orders, RE really had nothing to assure and shouldn't have made that statement.

 

[WThomas0814]

Simple search shows:

Yates Precision Manufacturing, LLC (6566595)

So as I suspect Yates is an LLC.

So that is what businesses do LLC’s to protect owner, Corporation is just paper, and good way to protect person wealth, or money.

Yates was never solely a razor manufacturer. What is your point?

 

[Dimitri]

Yates was never solely a razor manufacturer.

I wasn't aware. What other types of manufacturing were they involved in? This is somewhat worrysome then. I created a thread in the not too distant past discussing how I feel like some of our favorite razor brands may go under if their sole source of revenue is razor manufacturing as it's a one and done purchase for most razor buyers, since most people aren't enthusiasts like us that buy several.

I've always felt that companies like Henson and Timeless, for example, would likely weather any kind of economic or market saturation storm as they were already full-blown machine shop operations with other types of manufacturing making up their core business. Heck, even Rex would likely fare well since it's owned by RE, which was already a long established retailer of shaving goods/supplies and has another revenue stream. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Yates is going to be the last one to go under.

 

[WThomas0814]

I wasn't aware. What other types of manufacturing were they involved in? This is somewhat worrysome then. I created a thread in the not too distant past discussing how I feel like some of our favorite razor brands may go under if their sole source of revenue is razor manufacturing as it's a one and done purchase for most razor buyers, since most people aren't enthusiasts like us that buy several.

I've always felt that companies like Henson and Timeless, for example, would likely weather any kind of economic or market saturation storm as they were already full-blown machine shop operations with other types of manufacturing making up their core business. Heck, even Rex would likely fare well since it's owned by RE, which was already a long established retailer of shaving goods/supplies and has another revenue stream. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Yates is going to be the last one to go under.

Maybe he had stopped other work, but, he's been a machinist forever. I had read somewhere (it escapes me now) that he was involved in aerospace. Makes sense, since he was doing titanium. That's not easy work.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Right now, there is a lot of speculation and very little understanding of who has what responsibility in the Yates closing.

Rather than getting all spun up into a frenzy, my advice is to contact Jake directly if you are owed either a razor or a refund so you are getting factual information and status.

If you are not directly involved, you really don't have a horse in this race.

 

[DesertIguana]

Yates was never solely a razor manufacturer. What is your point?

Well it talking to Jake at the AZ Event it appears from his conversation he was in Razor Manufacturing Business, apparently did some contract work for other people selling Razors.

As for being a LLC I understand why people go that route verses sole proprietorship. Many advantages to being an LLC

My friend had about 8 or 9 LLC's that hold different part of his empire, most so he has no big targets on his home etc, that are all in Trusts.

 

[NEPA507]

my advice is to contact Jake directly if you are owed either a razor or a refund so you are getting factual information and status.

I'm sorry but I have to rebut on that part of your comment just because myself and nearly everybody else has tried contacting him multiple times over the last 6+ months and he just ghosts anybody who isn't somebody.

I agree there's lots of guessing and speculation, but hearing it from the horses mouth isn't an option when the horse rode away from the barn wet

 

[never-stop-learning]

I'm sorry but I have to rebut on that part of your comment just because myself and nearly everybody else has tried contacting him multiple times over the last 6+ months and he just ghosts anybody who isn't somebody.

I agree there's lots of guessing and speculation, but hearing it from the horses mouth isn't an option when the horse rode away from the barn wet

He just sent out a mass email. Maybe try responding to it?

Until you reach Jake directly, the discussion remains speculative.

 

[gpjoe]

Hmmm...

I don't know the details or legality of any of this (regarding liability) but regardless, it feels like another PR "black eye" for RE. I'm not surprised as it seems that they often find a way to be in the middle of controversy.

 

[DesertIguana]

Hmmm...

I don't know the details or legality of any of this (regarding liability) but regardless, it feels like another PR "black eye" for RE. I'm not surprised as it seems that they often find a way to be in the middle of controversy.

Well don’t see the public relations problem for Razor Emporium. They bought s CNC from Yates.

That CNC as I said only was set up & programmed to run Merica, & Winnings Caps & Bases plates.

Jake apparently had other CNC’s to do other Yates, and different machines to run Handles. Still back in his PA Shop.

Jake said at Meetup he would be finishing up Pending Yates Orders, I will guess were already paid for.

Don’t know what Razor Empourium all bought from Yates. Name, CNC Programs, or ? Above my pay grade.

Know two Thursdays ago the old Yates CNC was running The New Aluminum REX Caps and Plates.

Apparently the Handle are being done out of RE facility.

Apprently Razor Emporium is looking for more machinery to bring in to their shop.

So they can do all REX production in-house.

I should be down by Razor Empourium in week or two. So if I hear more about the New Alumium REX project, I will share.

Might be a competitor to Alumium Henson. Might come in Colors.