What is scritch?

[ChiefBroom]

I don't think of scritch of scratchy + itchy at all.

Then why is it called "scritch"?

For me scritch is "A pleasant scratch". Like, I scritch my cat behind its ears and when it decides it's had enough it will scratch me. Get it?

No.

When I have an itch, I scratch it. Or if I can't reach my itch, I have my wife scratch it. When I scratch an itch, the combined sensation is something like scritch until the itch goes away, then what's left is scratch (i.e., scratch = scritch - itch), until I (or my wife) quits scratching. Then it's neither scratch nor itch, unless/until the itch returns.

Scritch is what your loved ones feel when you get up in the morning and rub your cheek against theirs before you go and shave.

Maybe. That depends of what the loved one feels. I'd have to ask whether my wife felt scratch + itch, or just scratch.

Scritch is a brush that lets you know it's made up of individual hairs, not a swab of material, but isn't overly aggressive about it.

I have brushes that let me know they're made up of individual hairs without being overly aggressive, but which do not elicit any sensation that includes what I subjectively experience as itch. I wouldn't describe those brushes as scritchy to me. I would simply say I can feel the individual hairs.

FWIW, since "scritch" is obviously a conflation of the words "scratch" and "itch", it seems to me it has been and would continue to be the best choice for a word referring to the combined sensations of scratch and itch. But then scritch by any other name would still feel as ... scritchy.

In any case, if "scritch" is going to be accepted for use in describing something other than the distinct sensation, characteristically elicited by Old Rooney Finest knots, combining scratch and itch, then we need to come up with another word to describe that sensation, because having such a word is important to many of us in describing our experience of brushes.

So let's have some other suggestions before we finally consign "scritch" to utterly indefinite usage. Then we'll have some real confusion!

 

[Redzone]

Lots to learn here, I am enjoying the thread.
My initial motivation to ask this question was; I was looking for a term to describe what I was getting out of a new 21m knot FS brush (it that blasphemy ?) as a noob of course.
I have a Simpson 57 and another FS almost identical size to the 57 but this little FS performs differently. It lathers in the bowl much easier and I can feel the difference on my face and was wondering if this was scritch. I now see thats a YMMV senario but think it might have a fraction more "scrub" to it and I really like that little bit extra. I won't be calling it scritch though not yet anyway.
Thank you for the excellent replies Gents !

 

[ChiefBroom]

One man's scritch is another man's scrub.

As you said Ken, some will find Scritch pleasant and some will try to avoid it.

It's the never ending cycle of YMMV.

View attachment 346594

I agree. But only to the extent we're sharing the same sensation.

If you see red and I see blue, we're not both sharing the same visual experience.

If we both see red, but I like it and you don't, we're sharing the same visual sensory experience, although not interpreting the same way in terms of perception of pleasure.

Those can be worthwhile distinctions to preserve.

I think it's useful to have a word that is commonly understood (among us) to at least loosely mean something like scratch plush itch.

I think it makes best sense for that word to be "scritch".

I suspect that's more or less why and how the word "scritch" came into usage here, although I wasn't around at the time.

I think what I think of as scritch can be experienced by one person and not another using a particular brush under similar conditions. That is to say, YMMV.

I also think what I think of as scritch can be experienced by me on one day and not on another using a particular brush under dissimilar conditions. That is to say, MMMV.

I think two people experiencing what I think of as scritch can interpret that experience differently in terms of pleasure. That is to say, I think one person can enjoy a particular sensation whereas another might not, even though the sensation they both experience is pretty much comparable otherwise. This is something a little different than varying mileage. It's more like two people getting the same mileage while driving a convertible but one likes fresh air and the other doesn't.

I think it can be useful to have a word to describe a sensation -- such as the combination of scratch and itch -- which Old Rooney Finest brushes tend to elicit from many users -- notwithstanding the fact some find that sensation to be pleasant and others do not.

I think scritch has served well as such a word, but that it is a challenge to preserve its best fitted meaning because 1) as you point out, mileage in other respects varies, and 2) varying mileage tends to produce varying usage.

Finally, I think if you really wanted to apply your time, vital energy, and influence to a worthwhile cause, you would join me in my crusade to protect and preserve the one and only true meaning of "scritch" rather than proselytize Shave Purchase Sabbaticals that undermine human nature.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Lots to learn here, I am enjoying the thread.
My initial motivation to ask this question was; I was looking for a term to describe what I was getting out of a new 21m knot FS brush (it that blasphemy ?) as a noob of course.
I have a Simpson 57 and another FS almost identical size to the 57 but this little FS performs differently. It lathers in the bowl much easier and I can feel the difference on my face and was wondering if this was scritch. I now see thats a YMMV senario but think it might have a fraction more "scrub" to it and I really like that little bit extra. I won't be calling it scritch though not yet anyway.
Thank you for the excellent replies Gents !

This is both a fun and somewhat serious subject for me.

None of these terms has a definition that's carved in stone. Just the same, if we're going to attempt sensible discussion of the nuances of brushes and various (and variable) aspects of experiencing brushes, then we need to maintain some consistency in common usage among us.

BTW, I experience scrub when using a wash cloth even though I don't sense individual fibers. In fact, I can rub my face raw with a wet washcloth.

I personally don't like floppy, moppy brushes. But with enough pressure, even a moppy brush will produce some scrub.

 

[brucered]

I think scritch has served well as such a word, but that it is a challenge to preserve its best fitted meaning because 1) as you point out, mileage in other respects varies, and 2) varying mileage tends to produce varying usage.

So many factors come in to play when trying to describe a brush and how it feels. As you said above, if you soak your brush loner it's less scritchy then if you don't soak it as long

Other factors that play a part in brush feel: amount or product used, type of product used, how sensitive one's skin is, circular or paint strokes, face or bowl lather, to name a few.

The 2 band Simpson I had was not scritchy, scratchy or scrubby but demonstrated some "resilience" in the hairs that I could not describe using 'scitch', 'scrub' or 'scratch'.

Finally, I think if you really wanted to apply your time, vital energy....

That was 5-10 min of cut and paint with Paint

Speaking of cutting and pasting, I have decided to cut and paste Edgerunners full post here as I feel it needs a 2nd look he describes these terms with some great examples and definitions:

The level of softness is the most impostant quality of a brush to me. I've had difficulties describing and understanding descriptions of brushes as well using the terms scratch, scritch, scrub. It's been even more difficult to me as English is not my first language. Scritchandscrub's post has been very helpful so far.

Scratch has the trickiest meaning to me. Let's talk about scratching one's back for easy understanding the levels of scratch. I scratch my back for soothing my skin and for itch relief.

The first level is when I rub my back using my hand, just the tips of my fingers, or a towel. It's not much of scratch. I relate this to using my softest brushes which we call 'softest', 'pillow soft', 'cloud soft', 'gel-like soft'. Here are some (not complete) examples to understand what this level means to me - old Rooney 2-band, Thater, Shavemac Silvertip, some TGNs, and some recent Simpsons 2-band knots.

Now, if I use my nails or a big comb, or a hair brush with plastic tips, or any other wooden tool made for the job, and gently scratch my back, the sensation is very pleasant and soothing for my skin. This is why I scratch my back on the first place. Related to shaving brushes, this is what I refer to as scrub.

This is where it gets trickier. If I don't change the conditions and tools but just the used pressure, the scrub transforms into unpleasant scratch which can be painful, irritating, and I can get scratches or scratch marks on my skin. This is what scratchy brushes mean to me. To make things even more difficult, what if my comb teeth flex differently, or each of my nails apply different pressure, or some of the plastic pins of my hair brush are more resilient than the rest. Then the level of unpleasant scratch won't be uniform, consistent, and it can also change with the motion I use - circular or painting.

You see where my problem with the word scratch is - it's used to describe an activity (scratching my back) with completely different effects, one of which is called also scratch. To finish 'scratching' the meaning of scratch, the point at which a pleasant scrub transfroms into unpleasant scratch is different for all of us, even different for the same person depending on the skin conditions and sensitivity at the moment. Furthermore, it can easily change by using the brush differently - different pressure and different motion. And we all use our brushes with different pressure and motion, don't we? Also, I haven't mentioned anything about itch yet because, remember by definition, I scratch my back to relief and sooth my skin from the itch. So, pleasant scrub, or unpleasant scratch, or even irritation, scratching my back has nothing to do with causing itch. It's the opposite - it removes it.

Now, let's make the things even tougher. Imagine I'm still scratching my back and enjoying a nice scrub, or suffer from unpleasant scratch because I'm angry and can't get rid of the itch. Also imagine that one or more of my nails are sharp and pointy, or that the comb has a sharp tooth or two, or that my hair brush has some deffective pins with sharp tips, or that SWMBO is so angry with my shaving purchases that she's using a paper clip tip to pock my skin randomly whereever I'm scratching my back. You get the point. All those things feel prickly, cause itch and irritation, and are quite annoying. Furthermore, the prickly sensation is felt only when applying certain pressure, and at extremes can cause scratch marks. Different people perceive it with defferent intensity, similar to the personal sensitivity to scratch described above.

As you see, I accept that itch can be caused only by prickly tips pocking my skin. It's separate from the softness or scratch level of the brush. This ***** can go together with scrub or with scratch as described above. It means that brushes can be relatively soft and scrubby with or without itch. Examples of such brushes are a few Vie-Long and Simpsons Best brushes I've used. Naturally, brushes can be unpleasantly scratchy with or without caused itch due to prickly tips.

The bottom line is scritch is the combination of two separate negative qualities - scratchy sensation and pocking prickly tips. I don't have a word for scrubitch.

To make it easy for me, I just avoid Scritchy, Scubby and Scratch brushes all together now. I have gone the way of luxurious and pillowy soft.

 

[ChiefBroom]

That was 5-10 min of cut and paint with Paint

Eh?

Speaking of cutting and pasting, I have decided to cut and paste Edgerunners full post here as I feel it needs a 2nd look he describes these terms with some great examples and definitions:

As always, Boris' post as quoted by you was most excellent. I'm pretty sure he and I agreed back than that we're in basic agreement. And that obviously settles the issue.

 

[edgerunner]

Eureka! A new term for describing soft scrubby brushes with some prickly tips here and there: "scrutch" (scrub+itch)! Cheers! :-D

 

[DrAwkward]

This is both a fun and somewhat serious subject for me.

<snip>

I personally don't like floppy, moppy brushes. But with enough pressure, even a moppy brush will produce some scrub.

I agree that this discussion is both fun (entertaining) & serious (useful).
I find that my floppiest brush (Frank Shaving silvertip) will indeed produce a bit of scrub with enough pressure. However, I have also noticed that pressure helps to eliminate the scritch (a sensation I prefer to avoid) from many of my brushes (e.g., Simpsons Chubby 1 in Best).

However, the following Mantic video makes me think that I am using too much pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2K9y9LSn-w

So, should I avoid pressure, even when my face prefers the experience?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Then why is it called "scritch"?

Scritch isn't scratch+itch, it's the scratching OF an itch. "To Scratch an itch is to scritch." I'm sure I've seen it defined in some dictionary as something like: "A deep, soothing scratch of an itch"


I've never had a shaving brush cause me to itch. I'd be very concerned if one ever did. So I can't fathom the need for a term to describe brushes being "itchy" other than "itchy". And that for me would be a very, very bad thing.

 

[parapaul]

Scritch isn't scratch+itch, it's the scratching OF an itch. "To Scratch an itch is to scritch." I'm sure I've seen it defined in some dictionary as something like: "A deep, soothing scratch of an itch"

That definition comes from UrbanDictionary.com - so taken with a large pinch of salt. Until I joined this forum I'd never heard the word before in my life, but for absolute certain, you do NOT 'scritch' an itch. If you have an itch, you scratch it.

Taken in context, I had understood it to mean the prickly sensation from the ends of the bristles. I cannot scratch my face with a shaving brush, nor is it itchy to use. but when face lathering, it does feel prickly and causes a pinprick type rash on my cheeks.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Scritch isn't scratch+itch, it's the scratching OF an itch. "To Scratch an itch is to scritch."

This pair of statements strikes me as somewhat self-contradictory.

If I have an itch and I apply some scratch to it, what I have as long as both the itch and the scratch continue is itch plus scratch. Therefore, it would make perfect sense to say scritch can occur when scratching an itch.

I'm sure I've seen it defined in some dictionary as something like: "A deep, soothing scratch of an itch"

I don't doubt that you have. But I'm pretty sure that would have been a definition of slang usage. In any case, I don't consider a definition you came across somewhere else to necessarily settle the question here.

This is a community that was formed and exists to discuss and share information regarding a range of shared interests with a central focus on traditional wet shaving. Shaving brushes are a key topic. Useful, and occasionally penetrating, discussion of shaving brushes and their use requires -- or at least can be served by -- employment of specialized terms, which are sometimes borrowed from broader common usage and adapted to suit our purposes (e.g., "floppy", "moppy") and other times invented (e.g., "scritch", "scritchy"). What determines the meaning of these terms in the context of discussion within this community is how they are understood and used here.

Of course, effective communication is compromised when words that some of us use with reference to important objects, attributes, qualities, elements of subjective experience, etc., are also used by others with broadly various intended meaning such that no one (especially newer members) can know for sure what anyone else is really talking about. For reasons already discussed in this thread and elsewhere, the referent of "scritch" as I use the term gives rise to particular challenges. Those challenges are not inherent in the word itself, but rather in the subjective nature of what "scritch", to me, denotes. Nonetheless, if we don't agree upon and preserve some word we can use with at least a modicum of common understanding with reference to the sensation of scratch + itch that many of us experience in the use of some brushes, then we sacrifice an important tool of communication. This won't matter much to those who are content to ogle photos. But most of us are here for more than that.

I've never had a shaving brush cause me to itch. I'd be very concerned if one ever did. So I can't fathom the need for a term to describe brushes being "itchy" other than "itchy". And that for me would be a very, very bad thing.

I believe you. But I have had that experience. It occurs with different brushes in varying degrees, from just the slightest, transient hints (which are pleasurable for some) to pronounced and persistent irritation. The fact you haven't had the experience doesn't serve to disprove mine. And the fact you haven't had the experience doesn't render "scritch" a useless term as I and others use it here. It just means it apparently doesn't have application to you, as yet.

 

[ChiefBroom]

I walked away from my last post (below) wondering if I should have sprinkled it with smileys.

Then it occurred to me that I'm not even completely satisfied with scratch + itch as explanation of what I mean by "scritch". The scratch element isn't as distinct as the sensation of a fingernail clawing at an itch. "Scritch" to me is something that's a little the sensation of fine scratching (e.g. bore hairs against the skin) but with a tinge of itch, such that the overall sensation is -- or at least can be -- ambiguous, not exactly either but also not exactly both, kinda somewhere in between and hard to nail down. Depending on the degree, some can like it whereas others don't. But like it or not, it remains more-or-less the same, somewhat (but not entirely) distinct sensation.

If anyone asked me to show them what scritch feels like, I'd lather up a medium lofted, medium dense Old Rooney Finest and say "here, try this." I also experience scritch without fail every time I use one of my Vie-Long horse hair brushes. If you don't experience scritch in the use of Old Rooney Finest or Vie-Long horse hair brushes, then my guess is that you don't have the scritch gene.

This pair of statements strikes me as somewhat self-contradictory.

If I have an itch and I apply some scratch to it, what I have as long as both the itch and the scratch continue is itch plus scratch. Therefore, it would make perfect sense to say scritch can occur when scratching an itch.



I don't doubt that you have. But I'm pretty sure that would have been a definition of slang usage. In any case, I don't consider a definition you came across somewhere else to necessarily settle the question here.

This is a community that was formed and exists to discuss and share information regarding a range of shared interests with a central focus on traditional wet shaving. Shaving brushes are a key topic. Useful, and occasionally penetrating, discussion of shaving brushes and their use requires -- or at least can be served by -- employment of specialized terms, which are sometimes borrowed from broader common usage and adapted to suit our purposes (e.g., "floppy", "moppy") and other times invented (e.g., "scritch", "scritchy"). What determines the meaning of these terms in the context of discussion within this community is how they are understood and used here.

Of course, effective communication is compromised when words that some of us use with reference to important objects, attributes, qualities, elements of subjective experience, etc., are also used by others with broadly various intended meaning such that no one (especially newer members) can know for sure what anyone else is really talking about. For reasons already discussed in this thread and elsewhere, the referent of "scritch" as I use the term gives rise to particular challenges. Those challenges are not inherent in the word itself, but rather in the subjective nature of what "scritch", to me, denotes. Nonetheless, if we don't agree upon and preserve some word we can use with at least a modicum of common understanding with reference to the sensation of scratch + itch that many of us experience in the use of some brushes, then we sacrifice an important tool of communication. This won't matter much to those who are content to ogle photos. But most of us are here for more than that.



I believe you. But I have had that experience. It occurs with different brushes in varying degrees, from just the slightest, transient hints (which are pleasurable for some) to pronounced and persistent irritation. The fact you haven't had the experience doesn't serve to disprove mine. And the fact you haven't had the experience doesn't render "scritch" a useless term as I and others use it here. It just means it apparently doesn't have application to you, as yet.

 

[edgerunner]

It's a fact that scritch in the context of our shaving specific language comes from combining scratch and itch, and it describes the specific sensation experienced as a result of using a brush containing relatively coarse tips and a percentage of prickly tips. This is by definition, and it's the objective part of the discussion.

The subjective part is how much scritch one can tolerate, to what degree, is it desirable or unpleasant, etc. In this regards, the conversations can go on and on. And it's okay to be like that. In the end, we're interested to know how many of us feel a particular brush scritchy or not, and to what degree. Whether we like it or not is not that important.

Somebody mentioned above the analogy of blue and red. If we're on a painting forum, we might have the same kind of discussion about what's the combination of blue and red called - purple or violet, and what percentage of blue or red is perceived as purple or as violet. Also, where is the border line in the blue/red ratio that makes the color feel warmer or colder.

It's all the same with our scritchy term. We discuss it in depth because it makes us happy to scratch the itch to talk about anything related to shaving.

 

[ChiefBroom]

It's a fact that scritch in the context of our shaving specific language comes from combining scratch and itch, and it describes the specific sensation experienced as a result of using a brush containing relatively coarse tips and a percentage of prickly tips. This is by definition, and it's the objective part of the discussion.

The subjective part is how much scritch one can tolerate, to what degree, is it desirable or unpleasant, etc. In this regards, the conversations can go on and on. And it's okay to be like that. In the end, we're interested to know how many of us feel a particular brush scritchy or not, and to what degree. Whether we like it or not is not that important.

Somebody mentioned above the analogy of blue and red. If we're on a painting forum, we might have the same kind of discussion about what's the combination of blue and red called - purple or violet, and what percentage of blue or red is perceived as purple or as violet. Also, where is the border line in the blue/red ratio that makes the color feel warmer or colder.

It's all the same with our scritchy term. We discuss it in depth because it makes us happy to scratch the itch to talk about anything related to shaving.

Exactly!

Although I probably have a somewhat different sense of what "prickly" means than you do. I think of a cactus as being prickly. To me, "prickly" either denotes or implies a fine/sharp end to a relatively inflexible shaft (e.g., a small thorn or plant stock). What I think makes some badger hair scritchy is a fine/sharp (almost glass-like) tip to a relatively flexible shaft surrounded by coarser hair shafts that collectively take on different characteristics and elicit different sensations when wet with consequently altered surface-tension/adhesion properties.

My hypothesis is that clumping of wet hairs effectively confers more lateral stability to some of the finer ones and allows them to, as you say, prickle. I think they can actually produce micro-lacerates (disrupt/remove cells along linear and/or curves paths depending on directional motion). The extent to which this occurs with a particular brush (i.e., a given hair-type, loft, density, etc., combination) depends on an individual's manner of use (pressure, stroke, duration), the quality of his prep (affecting hydration, lubrication, and cushioning), and the condition of his skin. When it occurs, such brush-hair/skin-cell interactions produce nerve signalling that is more-or-less commonly sensed but variously interpreted (pleasant, unpleasant, good, bad).

Anyhow, that's what I think. And I think it based in part on conversations I've had with a few Chem Es and materials scientists (who were fairly amused by the questions). I hope to come up with some simple experiments to test some of this. One friend suggested using cadaver skin and a dye that would reveal microlacerations. I kinda don't want to use my brushes on cadaver skin.

 

[brucered]

Anyhow, that's what I think. And I think it based in part on conversations I've had with a few Chem Es and materials scientists (who were fairly amused by the questions). I hope to come up with some simple experiments to test some of this. One friend suggested using cadaver skin and a dye that would reveal microlacerations. I kinda don't want to use my brushes on cadaver skin.

Spoiler

phew....I posted and realized my toolbar shows up. Glad I don't have "those" favourites on my toolbar

Spoiler

kidding of course...my PC is family friendly, at all times and always will be

 

[ChiefBroom]

Trust me, that's not gonna happen. Or if it does, I'll sacrifice the brushes afterwards.

View attachment 346800

Spoiler

phew....I posted and realized my toolbar shows up. Glad I don't have "those" favourites on my toolbar

Spoiler

kidding of course...my PC is family friendly, at all times and always will be

 

[ChiefBroom]

I prefer scritch. I want to feel the brush working my face not just applying lather.

I have many brushes that I can feeling working my face (e.g., massaging, scrubbing) without experiencing any scritch.

For example, I have a Semogue boar brush that's not broken in yet. It is very scrubby and i can feel individual bristles working, but there isn't a hint of scritch when I use it. In fact, I've never experienced any scritch from any boar brush I've used.

 

[ChiefBroom]

But that's my point. I want to feel the scritch. I like the scratchy feel and little needle pricks. I have a Semogue boar and I like it. However it may be starting to get too soft. Luckily it at least has good backbone as it's fairly short.

Actually I thought scritch was a Disney character

Then I think we probably use scritch in the same way. I took your post to imply that absence of scritch means you can't feel a brush working your face. My point is you can feel a brush working your face without feeling scritch. But if you want that itchy/prickly sensation, it's scritch that you're looking for.

 

[oldtrout]

Whenever I see the word "scritch," stinging nettles come to mind. That prickly-itchy sensation.

 

[ChiefBroom]

Whenever I see the word "scritch," stinging nettles come to mind. That prickly-itchy sensation.

That's it!

Have you experienced scritch in using any brushes?