I discovered that when so many “newish” wet shavers start to feel comfortable in this hobby & don’t see themselves new anymore they feel this need to pay it forward like everyone does & get taken advantage of by so many wet shavers that get so much free gear from forums & the shave dad group. I belive if you don’t want to spend $30 on a razor yourself, you’re not even serious on trying this hobby so i’m not giving you a free rockwell. What are your thoughts?
What do you think about this whole “pay it forward” new wet shavers are taught?
- Thread starter VintageStraights
- Start date
I'd rather encourage than gatekeep. I still "new", yet already thinking of planning a couple PIFs myself.
I have no interest in being an arbiter of who deserves to participate in any hobby. And even if I did, it would not be based on how easily someone could afford a $30 investment.
But that's me. If you don't want to give people stuff, then don't.
I have no interest in being an arbiter of who deserves to participate in any hobby. And even if I did, it would not be based on how easily someone could afford a $30 investment.
But that's me. If you don't want to give people stuff, then don't.
The notion of the PIF is one of the things that makes our hobby a gentlemanly refuge from what can sometimes seem an increasingly selfish and inconsiderate society. Of course, the hope is that by paying forwards material goods to beginners, you are also bringing them into the "brotherhood" of the wet shaving community, and that having been thus instructed they will show similar kindnesses to others once they have some time served in the hobby. Honestly, I think that often it does work.
If you are concerned about being exploited, the best thing to do is to offer PIFs only in places with well established communities and to set clear criteria on who is eligible. You can also "fudge" the result to make sure the PIF goes to the most deserving candidate!
Yes, there will always be people who are venal and grasping, out for what they can get with no thought of giving back. I suspect most of us have known forums* with members who show up like clockwork in PIF threads but rarely contribute anywhere else. I myself once PIFed away about £50 of stuff to someone like this and never received so much as a thank you, but I was warned about them behind the scenes by another member and chose to proceed anyway because I wanted to get the stuff out of the den. It certainly didn't stop me offering other PIFs on that forum, but I was a bit more careful about the winners!
So, I guess what I am saying is be generous and offer PIFs if you have the opportunity and inclination to do so, but keep your wits about you. Something about "gentle as doves but wise as serpents" comes to mind!
*I have to say B&B is relatively free of such things as far as I have seen.
If you are concerned about being exploited, the best thing to do is to offer PIFs only in places with well established communities and to set clear criteria on who is eligible. You can also "fudge" the result to make sure the PIF goes to the most deserving candidate!
Yes, there will always be people who are venal and grasping, out for what they can get with no thought of giving back. I suspect most of us have known forums* with members who show up like clockwork in PIF threads but rarely contribute anywhere else. I myself once PIFed away about £50 of stuff to someone like this and never received so much as a thank you, but I was warned about them behind the scenes by another member and chose to proceed anyway because I wanted to get the stuff out of the den. It certainly didn't stop me offering other PIFs on that forum, but I was a bit more careful about the winners!
So, I guess what I am saying is be generous and offer PIFs if you have the opportunity and inclination to do so, but keep your wits about you. Something about "gentle as doves but wise as serpents" comes to mind!
*I have to say B&B is relatively free of such things as far as I have seen.
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- Thread starter
- #4
I absolutely agree, I just read about a guy who’s been shaving less than a year gave away $400 of his older products to who he thought was a new shaver & turned out to be a guy who scammed him. I’ve heard about this happening before too & just think it’s crazy people give away so much free stuff to someone they don’t know because they “feel” they have too
I wouldnt give away that much shaving gear for free to one person. I would PIF things I dont find a use for. In small quantities. And then possibly give my friends and family members the more generous PIF
This pretty much sums it up. One good turn begets another.
Sure, some will attempt to exploit kindness, but I like to believe that most will grow it and share goodwill. So, while I suppose to some I may be viewed as a mark (sucker), I view it quite differently.
And never felt obligated (that I "had too").
Wow. I don't like to hear of anyone getting stung like that. The person that won the PIF sounds like a heel, and they probably know they are too.
That said, without wanting to sound like I am victim blaming, it does seem like the PIFer was a bit incautious too. That's quite a valuable PIF and maybe they should have split it into lots or something?
Anyway - a sad tale, but we shouldn't let that sour us on the community as a whole. Especially not at somewhere like B&B where the kindness of the regular membership is often so humbling.
To be fair, that sounds like someone who would be the perfect
As mentioned above, vette the recipient with rules and a post check. If you have ten entries, run a random number, see who came up, check their history, and decide whether to make them the winner or pick another number.
Another option is to offer the item for sale a little below market, but not low enough for a super profitable flip. Then you give others a chance to try the thing without attracting total freeloaders.
If you have something worth $400, donate it in the auction.
Another option is to offer the item for sale a little below market, but not low enough for a super profitable flip. Then you give others a chance to try the thing without attracting total freeloaders.
If you have something worth $400, donate it in the auction.
I have no doubt that there are people who join forums such as B&B specifically to try to win free items via a PIF. When I do a PIF I exclude new members, and also those whose entire post history consists of repeats of "I'm in", in other words those who do not make a positive contribution to the forum. In that respect, my random winner selection is not random at all, and nor does it have to be. That said, I cannot imagine what someone is reading on B&B that makes them feel obliged to do anything at all, let alone to give away their belongings against their better judgement. Nobody can make me feel anything or do anything without my consent, and however I choose to feel and whatever I choose to do, is entirely my decision and my responsibility. However, we are all different and all we at B&B can do is to emphasise that nobody here is obliged to do anything at all, apart from to abide by the B&B rules, rules which do not include having to give away one's belongings.
I have won some awesome pif's, and I have given away items when I can. Either way, both bring me joy.
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Can't say that I've every seen someone this upset about PIF's before...
I give away to established members.
If I pick a winner at random and looked at the posts and didn't like something I saw, the next random person was picked. If someone can't read the rules of the PIF, they are automatically excluded. If someone has entered 10 PIF's that day, they are excluded. Hopefully you get the point.
Be smart in your giveaways.
If I pick a winner at random and looked at the posts and didn't like something I saw, the next random person was picked. If someone can't read the rules of the PIF, they are automatically excluded. If someone has entered 10 PIF's that day, they are excluded. Hopefully you get the point.
Be smart in your giveaways.
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And be courteous to the person that now has your home address and a delivery photo of your porch. Just saying.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
It's better to give than to receive, right?
PIFs are the bee's knees.
Don't participate if you don't want to.
Happy shaves,
Jim
PIFs are the bee's knees.
Don't participate if you don't want to.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Exactly, my friend.
If I've already made the decision to give something away, I can't really consider it a loss if it goes to someone who already has a bunch of stuff. That said I've never done an open PIF, I usually just try to send things to people who I've interacted with and I know will appreciate it or might want to try it. Which reminds me, I have some stuff I should give away.
I don't think I've ever done an actual PIF.... I end up giving stuff to people I think would enjoy it... or benefit from it... But I think the tradition is a good one.
I wholeheartedly believe that what comes around goes around. So while some may take joy in working the system, those who act with genuine goodness should not be discouraged from continuing their acts of kindness.
Those who exploit another's generosity will have a higher authority to answer to at the end of the freebie line.
(wow, I did not think I had that in me to say)
Long live the PIF!
Those who exploit another's generosity will have a higher authority to answer to at the end of the freebie line.
(wow, I did not think I had that in me to say)
Long live the PIF!
Those who want to do giveaways will.
Those who don't want to do giveaways won't.
Those who think that those who do shouldn't, we're sorry to disappoint you.
As for the recipients sometimes being less than deserving well,
RIP Mr. Hackman
I find gifts are best given without strings attached, given freely without expectations. Attaching strings to gifts can lead to being dragged down into the muck.
Those who don't want to do giveaways won't.
Those who think that those who do shouldn't, we're sorry to disappoint you.
As for the recipients sometimes being less than deserving well,
I find gifts are best given without strings attached, given freely without expectations. Attaching strings to gifts can lead to being dragged down into the muck.
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