War in Afghanistan - What to do? (opinions)

[FreezerBurns]

Come on man. How is this not political? I wouldn't go over to the Council on Foreign Relations website and start a thread debating soap over cream. Don't start something like this here.

I appreciate you telling me what not to do here, however, my intention was not to "Start something here." I am genuinely curious of folks' opinion. This is why it was a poll. Feel free to vote. No one will ever know how you voted. you're not even required to comment on your vote. If you do not like the multiple choice options, feel free to navigate away from the page.

 

[The Nid Hog]

I appreciate you telling me what not to do here, however, my intention was not to "Start something here." I am genuinely curious of folks' opinion. This is why it was a poll. Feel free to vote. No one will ever know how you voted. you're not even required to comment on your vote. If you do not like the multiple choice options, feel free to navigate away from the page.

I'm just genuinely puzzled that you could think that this isn't political. If you think that it's possible to have an apolitical survey about politics, have at it.

 

[Mr_Amazing]

I think there are a couple ways of looking at this war on terror. On one hand, it is eerily similar to the war on drugs that has largely been a failure in reaching the goal. On the other hand, terrorism is a different monster in that the sole result seems to be to kill innocent (and i'm sure some targeted) people. Terrorism, in my view, is largely a reaction to politics. The attack of the WTC was intended to take down the system, not the people. In that sense, I don't think there is any way to remove terrorism from the world. Something some nation does will **** a group of radicals off somewhere else. That's just the way it is.

As for whether the United States should send in more troops, leave it as is, or remove all the troops, I don't know that I can answer any of those. Maybe it is best to "remove" all the troops to lure terrorists out of their hiding places. I would like to see seals and special operations units remain in the shaddows to gather enough intelligence to organize timed insurgencies that will be effective and minimize the negative publicity around the rest of the world. To me, that is the logical move. It has nothing to do with any political views I have, mainly because I think all politicians are idiots who lie for a living.

 

[Manos]

I don't think it's political, either, unless you are using the word more broadly to refer to any affairs of the state. If you are, we need to purge our Location data base of any references to nations or cities. The type of political argument best avoided on this forum is the political party argument, because it's largely a pointless exercise designed to boost or diminish support for a party. The question posed by FreezerBurns can be answered without delving into party politics.

I voted to withdraw troops for a simple reason -- the goal has been met. We sent troops to Afghanistan to end al Qaeda's use of the country as a home base from which to plan and launch international attacks. We have succeeded. If we are to maintain a military presence, we need a different goal. If we stay to keep al Qaeda from returning, then we must accept that we will never leave. If we establish a local strongman to prevent al Qaeda's return, we leave the country of Afghanistan far worse off, with no guarantee that our new goal will be met.

This is the irony of war, gentlemen. It's not an act of bravery, but of surrender. It's an implicit acknowledgment of failure. To paraphrase James T. Kirk, if I may, that's what makes it a thing to be avoided.

 

[FreezerBurns]

I'm just genuinely puzzled that you could think that this isn't political. If you think that it's possible to have an apolitical survey about politics, have at it.

Of course there is a political aspect to the war, there's no doubt about it. With the intention of avoiding "politics as usual," the poll is not designed for neverending screeds of reasons of why you are or not for the war; it's more for a general idea from the general public of what they would do right now, given the three options. If you see it fit to discuss the political aspects of the war, start up your own poll. If you feel the question and answers to this particular poll question are too vague, don't answer. This poll is not meant for anylization by political and military experts. You clearly consider yourself an expert in not only politics but also government, war, peace, and barbershop polls. You insist on preventing people from answering a poll because a political discussion must be iminent. Why can't you just answer the poll or not? Why can't people answer the poll without you nay-saying the premise? So, in case you missed it previously, don't answer the poll if one of the multiple choice answers does not suit you.

 

[_JP_]

the only argument can be Cream v. Soaps.

Err... that's Soaps v. Cream.

And no opinion on the poll.

 

[Topgumby]

"General, we have the intelligence briefing. We have a remarkable conclusion."

"Go ahead, Major."

"General, it seems that the history of human conflict is not as complex as we have believed it to be. In fact, the discovery we have made may make traditional military thinking obsolete. The service academies, the study of military history, the interaction of military and political policy, all moot."

"Interesting stuff, Major. Let's hear what you've got."

"General, it seems that all the strategic thinking that has gone in to warfighting can be boiled down to three choices: 'Send more troops!
Pull all troops! Continue as is!' That's all we have to decide."

"Really, Major?"

"Yes, General. Consider Lincoln's position after the South attacked Ft. Sumpter. He picked option one."

"Astounding."

"It is, sir. Another example, World War One. Both sides picked option one."

"But, Major, didn't that lead to a bloody four year stalemate?"

"Yes, it did, but only because both sides then moved to option two. The Central Powers eventually picked option three, solving the problem."

"Major?"

"Yes, General?"

"What was your source for this theory?"

"A shaving forum, sir."

"Well, I have noticed you have a really snappy looking shave."

"Yes, sir! Will that be all, General?"

"Oh, I think so, Major."

 

[Kevan]

That's oddly mesmerizing.

Coolant Leak! Everybody out, we gotta coolant leak!!!"

 

[Azza]

Fight it to win it, no half measures.

I like this approach.

- Aaron

 

[jkchuma]

If there is one thing I know it is you don't half a** a task you are responsible for completing. If you do then you will have to redo it all over again.

 

[Dharion]

Topgumby that is hilarious!

 

[SRock]

OK guys, I rolled through this thread and didn't see a single Active Duty badge. I suspect that is because this can be a very sensitive/touchy subject. I do see a few vets here and I'd like to thank you for keeping things calm.

Here is my .02. Call it what you want, this is a political thread. This is also one of those threads that has the potential to put people at odds for no other reason than partisan party politics. For those people outside the inner circles the tendency is to agree with their party view. For people inside those inner circles and those who have or have had boots on the ground this topic means a great deal more and is very different to them.

That said, I did not, nor will I vote. I will however watch this thread very closely. Those who this effects the most probably have very strong opinions about this subject and I'm going to ask anyone who has an emotional response to this to simply not vote and not reply.

I have personal emotions and lost friends in this area of discussion. This isn't one that I'd like to discuss or debate openly.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but I also believe that this sort of thing needs to be left to the experts and those most effected by it. Armchair soldiering isn't going to effect the outcome of any conflict.

Please play nice guys and wherever you stand on this issue remember the troops.

If I offended anyone with my stance or this response feel free to PM me and we can discuss this privately like gentlemen.

 

[the beav]

I don't think that this is a political post, but as far as I know there's no ban on political posts anyway. There is a ban on ungentlemanly behaviour.

With that said, perhaps better discussion topics would be:
1. Why are we there? (I can think of five reasons)
2. Why/how are we going to win when the British, Russians, and others failed?

 

[luvmysuper]

OK guys, I rolled through this thread and didn't see a single Active Duty badge. I suspect that is because this can be a very sensitive/touchy subject. I do see a few vets here and I'd like to thank you for keeping things calm.

Here is my .02. Call it what you want, this is a political thread. This is also one of those threads that has the potential to put people at odds for no other reason than partisan party politics. For those people outside the inner circles the tendency is to agree with their party view. For people inside those inner circles and those who have or have had boots on the ground this topic means a great deal more and is very different to them.

That said, I did not, nor will I vote. I will however watch this thread very closely. Those who this effects the most probably have very strong opinions about this subject and I'm going to ask anyone who has an emotional response to this to simply not vote and not reply.

I have personal emotions and lost friends in this area of discussion. This isn't one that I'd like to discuss or debate openly.

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but I also believe that this sort of thing needs to be left to the experts and those most effected by it. Armchair soldiering isn't going to effect the outcome of any conflict.

Please play nice guys and wherever you stand on this issue remember the troops.

If I offended anyone with my stance or this response feel free to PM me and we can discuss this privately like gentlemen.

Thanks Slagle, and FWIW I agree 100% having been there under fire.

 

[David in Boston]

Err... that's Soaps v. Cream.

And no opinion on the poll.

I voted for soap.

 

[MoJoe]

I have a nephew in Afghanistan. He sent home some news recently that his unit was not being fed on Tuesdays because 'there was not enough to go around'. This is not fighting to win with no half measures.

My nephew is also a warrior's warrior. He viewed Afghanistan like he did his tours in Iraq - it was his job and he was going to fight to win. Recently, he's starting to signals that he and his unit are frustrated and thinks we should just pull out.

I'm not sure how I'd vote but I do know that you cannot let a general's report sit on your desk for 2 months and vote present and call it a strategy. Also, saying that the situation calls for careful consideration is not strategy. Obama needs to man up and make a decision based on the situation in Afghanistan and in the region and not based on how his political base will react. And in the meantime, he needs to stop the nonsense and feed the troops that are there.

For those of you interested. The unit in question is 1-12 Infantry out of FOB Wilson, Fort Carson, Colorado. I doubt that they're the only ones in the army impacted.

 

[The Nid Hog]

"General, we have the intelligence briefing. We have a remarkable conclusion."

"Go ahead, Major."

"General, it seems that the history of human conflict is not as complex as we have believed it to be. In fact, the discovery we have made may make traditional military thinking obsolete. The service academies, the study of military history, the interaction of military and political policy, all moot."

"Interesting stuff, Major. Let's hear what you've got."

"General, it seems that all the strategic thinking that has gone in to warfighting can be boiled down to three choices: 'Send more troops!
Pull all troops! Continue as is!' That's all we have to decide."

"Really, Major?"

"Yes, General. Consider Lincoln's position after the South attacked Ft. Sumpter. He picked option one."

"Astounding."

"It is, sir. Another example, World War One. Both sides picked option one."

"But, Major, didn't that lead to a bloody four year stalemate?"

"Yes, it did, but only because both sides then moved to option two. The Central Powers eventually picked option three, solving the problem."

"Major?"

"Yes, General?"

"What was your source for this theory?"

"A shaving forum, sir."

"Well, I have noticed you have a really snappy looking shave."

"Yes, sir! Will that be all, General?"

"Oh, I think so, Major."

Topgumby, you are the new Mark Twain of the American military experience. You're like Gene Duncan and John Thompson rolled into one. As soon as I hit return, I'm going to bow to the West.

 

[Unknownsoldier]

My thought is: Pull out all the UK/Coalition troops, we've lost enough to a country that obviously doesn't want us there, [then follow this by extending the Mediterranean a thousand or so miles.....].

We are fighting with hands tied behind our backs, I have a few military friends, I love my country, and I support 10000000% our troops.

I'm a student of History, we have as a nation (Britain), been fighting in Afghanistan since the 1880s, we have lost every time (sometimes victory seemed assured, but always they have come back to beat invading forces), we went back in the 1900s, the Russians tried in the 1980s, the Americans supplied the training and weapons to stop the Russians, the Afghans have again turned this to a victory following the British mess up with MPAJA of the 1940s (we dropped gold and weapons and trainers to the Malayan Peoples Anti Japanese Army, which had communist units, they hoarded this stuff and then used it against us and their own people in the 50s/60s). So we should by now have realised we aren't going to win, by fair means at least. I'm taking no sides here on the historical front and trying to be objective as possible with this bit......... why sacrifice anymore men and women in what is going to be a new Vietnam/Northern Ireland. I'll support our brave servicemen to my dying breath... but I can't say the same for the politicians.

I support our troops, but not the war.......

ATB,
Tom

 

[RBE17]

Fight it to win it, no half measures.

+1 It's my humble opinion that if the U.S. is going to engage in a military fashion it should be done as quickly, efficiently as possible coupled by an overwhelming use of force. While I feel we need to stay the course, I do not agree w/ the cat and mouse, fight the war w/ one hand behind our backs tactics used to get us in this quagmire.

 

[tg16]

Err... that's Soaps v. Cream.

And no opinion on the poll.

I believe it is actually Soaps vs Creams.

Talk about excitement, people are already arguing about whether they will argue or not.

I sure am glad I had a leisurely shave this morning using Cella Crema de Barba followed up by a nice splash of Spanish Floids. Nothing, short of a call from the ex, could ruin my day.