Suehiro Gokumyo 20k Stone

[jpcwon]

Prices are better now I think - under 300 right?
Question - is it 'better' than a 30k Shapton?
That's a rhetorical question.... just making a point... not an arguement.

Yeah, I think the conversion is around $267....

Reports can say anything, but all that matters is how it feels on MY face at the end of the day. That's the reason I posted this thread; to learn a bit more about them & to hear other's opinions...Like I said I sold all of my synthetics, save for my Chosera 1k, so if the Gok really delivers the goods like people say they do, then I don't see any reason why this wouldn't be a viable alternative to a natural....I dunno, we'll see I guess...I'll let you know if I decide to cave....

 

[professorchaos]

Good question ... how does it stack up against a 30K Shapton?

Also, I don't think that an edge off a Japanese natural is an unrepeatable result. The hone doesn't change between one session and the next. The human and the techniques he uses to sharpen the blade may change. Until the human can consistently produce the same result - which hinges on edge assessment as much as honing - inconsistent results will occur on natural and synthetic hones.

 

[jpcwon]

Good question ... how does it stack up against a 30K Shapton?

purportedly smoother (according to people who've used both)...The product description says:

"Designed to mimic the finest natural stones in performance and feel", which is what's probably roping people in....The question is, might I be one of those people?! lol....

 

[Bayamontate]

Let's compare apples to apples, the Suehiro to the Shapton, cool, the Suehiro to jnat or any other natural, illogical, totally different animal. Having tried both, the Suehiro and Shapton are very comparable, the Suehiro leaves more of a mirror finish IMO. Both excellent finishers, especially if you want further refinement after the Naniwa 12K or Chosera 10. Yes a big jump but very doable .

 

[Brooksie967]

Just do it JP.

 

[mainaman]

The Suehiro makes better edge than both Shaptons IME.
The Shaptons I would rate #1 Shapton Pro 30k, #2 Shapton GS 30k. The GS is very aggressive and rewuires fidling to get it right, the Pro is a lot easier to use, but the edge off the Suehiro is the best of the three.
The Suehiro edge is comparable in smoothness and sharpness to a Jnat, as a matter of fact only the really top notch Jnats can compare. Results from the hone are extremely reproducible as well.
As always in the end it is a matter of free funds and enough curiosity to obtain the stone, I would not say it is a must have stone , but definitely a recommended stone.

 

[life2short1971]

Worst case, you resell it on the BST and you're out $20-$30. Are you going to tell us you can't afford $20?

Ooohh a professional enabler!

 

[Fuzzy Chops]

As always in the end it is a matter of free funds and enough curiosity to obtain the stone, I would not say it is a must have stone , but definitely a recommended stone.

Stefan,
Is it a useful finisher after a natural progression, or is it more effective after a synthetic progression?
We may need to set JP up with a set up Shapton Pros.

 

[mainaman]

Stefan,
Is it a useful finisher after a natural progression, or is it more effective after a synthetic progression?
We may need to set JP up with a set up Shapton Pros.

I use it after synthetic progression, full synthetics makes honing multiple blades a lot let time consuming process. For me honing more than 3 blades on Jnats is too much of a time investment.
I have not used the stone after a Jnat, but I have used a Jnat after the stone, the edge was super as well, hard to tell if it was better than plain Suehiro edge or not, one has to play with those options and see how they like it better.

 

[Fuzzy Chops]

I use it after synthetic progression, full synthetics makes honing multiple blades a lot let time consuming process. For me honing more than 3 blades on Jnats is too much of a time investment.
I have not used the stone after a Jnat, but I have used a Jnat after the stone, the edge was super as well, hard to tell if it was better than plain Suehiro edge or not, one has to play with those options and see how they like it better.

The reason I ask is that if the natural progression leaves a micro-convex apex (or edge of the edge), the apex may not contact the G20K surface.
I would be interested in whether you can improve a sub-par Jnat edge with the G20K .

For the synthetic progression, do you believe that an intermediate grit is required between 8k and the G20K?

 

[jpcwon]

Stefan,
Is it a useful finisher after a natural progression, or is it more effective after a synthetic progression?
We may need to set JP up with a set up Shapton Pros.

I would be using it after a natural progression as I do not have any synthetic stones (except for my Chos. 1k). I would probably set the bevel on my 1k, then do the bulk of the work on coticule or JNAT w/nagura progression. I would then use the Gok 20k to finish....So if it works well after a natural progression then that's a good thing!

Hey, if you want to donate a set of Shapton Pros I'll happily take them!!!

 

[Fuzzy Chops]

I would be using it after a natural progression as I do not have any synthetic stones (except for my Chos. 1k). I would probably set the bevel on my 1k, then do the bulk of the work on coticule or JNAT w/nagura progression. I would then use the Gok 20k to finish....So if it works well after a natural progression then that's a good thing!

Hey, if you want to donate a set of Shapton Pros I'll happily take them!!!

Let me suggest an experiment then. Hone THREE razors and shave test them. Send them to Stefan and have him finish TWO of them, but not tell you which. Shave test them again, post your impressions, then Stefan can reveal which two he finished.

 

[Raithskar]

Just do it JP.

That's what I told him too Brooksie!

 

[jpcwon]

Let me suggest an experiment then. Hone THREE razors and shave test them. Send them to Stefan and have him finish TWO of them, but not tell you which. Shave test them again, post your impressions, then Stefan can reveal which two he finished.

Maybe that's what I'll do. He already PMed me asking if I would like him to finish a razor on the G20K. I told him yes, if I didn't cave in & get the stone first!!

 

[xuzxuz]

As to buying back ups. I've gone through maybe 200-300 razor honings on the "razor" side of my 20k.
That's almost the original side bevel from factory. You can see that it is extremely hard stone that doesn't wear out much.
I can probably hone thousands of razors before it goes through a fraction of the stone.
Mainaman is right when he says it will be several life's worth.
That said, I have used it with Nagura progression as well, and when you start rubbing stones on it,
it will wear out the stone much faster than just honing on it.

I used to rotate between Escher, Jnats, and Shapton Pro 30k, etc. before I bought SG20k.
I sold Shapton Pro 30k about a month later and will not buy one again.
I can not speak about the glass Shapton since I've not used one in the 30k range.

I use the other side for knives and I can attest that SG20k is also excellent knife finisher.
When you put pressure on it, it cuts almost as fast as 3k range stones, but leaves that perfectly uniform .5 micron scratches.
I found the fast cutting to be important for extra hard knives and razors - e.g. ZDP189 @ 65+ or TI C135's at 62+.
For this reason, when I finish TI carbonsongs, I usually only finish on the SG.

I have also used it as a substrate for finishing on CBN .1 microns with good results.

 

[ouch]

This thread is an exemplar of how to discuss these frequently contentious issues in a logical, articulate, and respectful manner. I'm shocked at the lack of chest thumping and brow beating.

 

[jpcwon]

This thread is a exemplar of how to discuss these frequently contentious issues in a logical, articulate, and respectful manner. I'm shocked at the lack of chest thumping and brow beating.

Oh BTW, I totally caved and bought one.....You knew I would!! Curiosity got the best of me I guess!! I will be sure to post my experiences with the stone once I get it. I paid for EMS express shipping from Japan, so it should be here in 5 days.

I really love my coticules and JNATs, but I figured it would be fun to give this thing a chance.....

 

[rickboone1]

How to sneak $270 from the wife's purse.... Hey, I just want to try it. Then I'll put it on BST. Promise.
We should do a group buy.

I wonder how long the popularity of this will last? Is it a new stone? Just wonder why the chatter now and not a year ago.

Jcp. Lets hear your thoughts when you get it.

 

[jpcwon]

How to sneak $270 from the wife's purse.... Hey, I just want to try it. Then I'll put it on BST. Promise.
We should do a group buy.

I wonder how long the popularity of this will last? Is it a new stone? Just wonder why the chatter now and not a year ago.

Jcp. Lets hear your thoughts when you get it.

You got it!!

 

[ouch]

I agree with Rick that there are no magic stones and that technique trumps tools every time. I recall Nortons, Shaptons, Choceras, et al all being the darlings of honemeisters at various times. If a member were to post "Anyone have any opinion on Burgess Shale stones?", you can bet that within five minutes someone would reply with "Where can I purchase a Burgess Shale stone?", to which someone would respond with "They're only good if they were mined from the Greater Phyllopod Bed and contain a goodly amount of Pikaia Gracilens fossils."


That's just the nature of the game.