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- #41
Then the wife and kids came along. It would have been irresponsible to continue riding.
Straight Razor Shavers
- Thread starter Quaznoid
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I see more clearly. We are of a different mindset. I don't see Motorcycle riding as inherently more dangerous than driving if one has proper training. I do take riding courses every so often to sharpen my skills. I also practice my riding in a closed environment to keep sharp. I do understand others will not accept the risk no matter how many courses they can take. At the moment I live in a fairly small town and ride to and from work less than 5 miles. Would my attitude be different if I commuted in Houston traffic? Maybe, I would darn sure practice my skills more often and stay on top of the game so to speak. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks. And that is a highly personal decision, just as with SR shavers making the determination if the benefits outweigh the risks. If one is not willing to take the risk of riding a motorcycle or using a SR one is not willing to do so. It comes down to the tolerance of risk and willingness to overcome that risk with training. Some are of the mindset no amount of training can overcome their perception of the risk. It is a highly personal decision to accept risk or reject it. I do understand now.
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- #43
Riding today would be so much more dangerous than when I quit 30 years ago. Everyone’s on their f-cking phones now. I walk 3 1/2 miles a day on country roads and despite walking on the left and wearing my hunter’s orange hat I have to jump out of the way of some inattentive a-hole 2-3 times a week. Amish man pushing a foot scooter was killed last year on my road. Teenage girl texting. Hit and run. Left him to die in the road.
I don't know that I will ever get a superior shave from a SR in terms of closeness versus DE - or if it is even possible - but in my very limited experience, I can say that the shave is superior in comfort.
This post says it very well, and honestly:
I suspect that there are some who are very happy to sacrifice an extremely close shave for a more comfortable shave.
I also know for a fact that some SR users do a single-pass daily shave and are happy. I guarantee that my 3-pass DE shaves are closer, though possibly at the expense of occasional irritation.
Which is superior?
I view riding a motorcycle as infinitely more dangerous, regardless of experience and training.
I started on dirt bikes at 14 years old. I progressed through many road bikes, the last three were Harley Davidson and never laid one down or had an accident, just a few close calls.
We moved to northern Michigan a few years ago. Last year I was driving home one night in my SUV when a deer jumped into my driver's side front fender. Never saw it. The deer wiped out the entire side of my vehicle.
After over 50 years of riding motorcycles, I sadly sold my Street Glide, knowing that as a 65 year-old man with 50 years riding experience I would likely not survive a collision with a 200lb deer at 60mph...despite my awesome riding skills.
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I am sure you are right; I've seen many guys say pretty much just that.
I have no experience with DEs, I shaved with carts and electrics for a long time, then wore a beard for a while, which is when I started using a straight, just to edge the cheeks and shave my neck. Then I started shaving most of my face with a straight. All I can say is, I can generally get just as close with a straight as with a 2 or 3 blade cart (except for two spots on my neck where the growth pattern is almost impossible to hit perfectly ATG with a straight), and much, much more comfortably. No idea if a DE would get closer, it might, but I am kind of invested in the straight razor game at this point. My goal most days is to be close to BBS when I leave the house, which means I'll be relatively smooth still when I get home. I always have plenty to shave off the next day. Straights get me there without irritation.
I've used Feather AC format shavettes and I can't get any closer with those. Nor do I find them as comfortable as a a straight finished on the right natural stone.
I will never, ever ride a motorcycle at night in a rural area, never. I will wait till the morning. For this very reason. I do not accept the risk of riding a motorcycle at night in a rural area. I see it as risk management, and respecting the tool you are using.
I would love to reach this skill level. It feels like blind faith for me, hoping that suddenly I "get it". I suppose that will only happen with dedication and focus...and right now I'm merely a dabbler.
@Quaznoid , Nice thread with a lot of thoughtful replies that make for an interesting read. Even if we don't use a SR we can still understand why some of us choose one by reflecting on why use our preferred shaving tools/method in spite of the availability of other, often easier, options.
In my case I went from electric shavers back to DE four years ago. Why go from an easy two minute shave with an almost zero chance of weepers to a 10-15 minute process that occasionally sheds a drop of blood (fortunately hardly ever these days)? In my case it was a mix of going back to my past (I initially shaved with a DE razor prior to going electric decades ago), a better, closer shave, a desire to explore historic techniques (shaving soap and brush vs. the canned foam I used during my first DE shaving stint), and the desire for the that relaxing 10 minute zen moment while creating the ideal lather and executing the perfect shave. I really enjoy custom crafting my ideal lather from a shaving soap or cream and the post-shave BBS feel.
I look at shaving methods as a ease of use/complexity spectrum from electric to cartridge systems followed by DE and then SE shaving. My perfect place on the spectrum today is in the DE part of this spectrum that is perfect for me. Fully get how others, for similar reasons as I noted above, may want to go all the way to SE shaving with additional process elements such as stropping the blade and the need for an even heightened Zen like focus on the shaving task at hand. All of us have our preferred place on that spectrum, some us use canned foam with their DE razor, others brush and shaving soap with their Mach 3. I've lots of respect for those who go all the way to the SE part of the spectrum even if my ideal place is in the DE area.
In my case I went from electric shavers back to DE four years ago. Why go from an easy two minute shave with an almost zero chance of weepers to a 10-15 minute process that occasionally sheds a drop of blood (fortunately hardly ever these days)? In my case it was a mix of going back to my past (I initially shaved with a DE razor prior to going electric decades ago), a better, closer shave, a desire to explore historic techniques (shaving soap and brush vs. the canned foam I used during my first DE shaving stint), and the desire for the that relaxing 10 minute zen moment while creating the ideal lather and executing the perfect shave. I really enjoy custom crafting my ideal lather from a shaving soap or cream and the post-shave BBS feel.
I look at shaving methods as a ease of use/complexity spectrum from electric to cartridge systems followed by DE and then SE shaving. My perfect place on the spectrum today is in the DE part of this spectrum that is perfect for me. Fully get how others, for similar reasons as I noted above, may want to go all the way to SE shaving with additional process elements such as stropping the blade and the need for an even heightened Zen like focus on the shaving task at hand. All of us have our preferred place on that spectrum, some us use canned foam with their DE razor, others brush and shaving soap with their Mach 3. I've lots of respect for those who go all the way to the SE part of the spectrum even if my ideal place is in the DE area.
As a straight shaver, I know that deep down @Merchant Seaman Z put it best:
Just substitute an SR for the credential in the meme. You know that's part of our psyche. Most SR shavers have stones. Often, a lot of stones.
Just for the record, based on my testing, none of the following are particularly good at getting a date with a member of the attractive gender:
white water kayaking
mountaineering
backcountry ski camping
ocean kayak touring
Ocean sailing might do the job, if you own the yacht.
Stay home, earn a hefty income, and save money by traditional DE wetshaving.
Just substitute an SR for the credential in the meme. You know that's part of our psyche. Most SR shavers have stones. Often, a lot of stones.
Just for the record, based on my testing, none of the following are particularly good at getting a date with a member of the attractive gender:
white water kayaking
mountaineering
backcountry ski camping
ocean kayak touring
Ocean sailing might do the job, if you own the yacht.
Stay home, earn a hefty income, and save money by traditional DE wetshaving.
It took me a while to get there, and a lot of it was figuring out what kind of finished edge suits my skin and whiskers. I don't think there's a simple 5 step recipe that will work for everyone, and probably what works for me wouldn't work so well for the next guy.I would love to reach this skill level. It feels like blind faith for me, hoping that suddenly I "get it". I suppose that will only happen with dedication and focus...and right now I'm merely a dabbler.
Well, let me see what I can explain.
For me, straight razor shaving is not about rejecting modernity and convenience so much as questioning what they really offered in the first place. Sure, it's easy to pick up a cartridge razor, scrape it across your face, and call it done. It's practical and completely uninvolving, like using a toaster or a toothbrush.
It doesn't have to be that way. When I shave with a straight, I am utterly involved and focused at every moment. The cares of the world fall away, and it's just me and my blade and my skin and my soap. Mountain climbers, too, report this escape from the cares of the world in the face of utter concentration.
I am in control of every part of my experience. The edge is the way it is because of my choices when honing, and how well I got the most out of my stones. It is elemental. Someone made a hardened, shaped piece of steel, and the rest is up to me.
I can play -- with different razors, different stones, different techniques on the stones, and of course soaps and lathering techniques.
You say why not use convenient manufactured tools -- I say, why complicate things? All you need is the edge, not a house for it. "Safety" razors frankly scare me. You can't tell just where the edge is. Comfort is a matter of somehow mastering shaving with an edge you can't even see. The edge itself is very slicey, worlds away from a straight razor honed for comfort. Coticule edge fans say that the feel of a coticule edge makes it seem as though it would be impossible to cut yourself. I know that feeling, and I know no one ever said that about a razor blade.
My shaves are much better, much more interesting, and much more involving since I started shaving with a straight. How can that be an unnecessary skill? To me it is a basic life skill, hidden through technology. Is driving with a stick shift an unnecessary skill? It has been overtaken through technology, but that technology has hidden one of the great pleasures of life.
Let me start by saying that I'm not a regular straight razor shaver. In fact, I have a few PARTIAL shaves with a straight that, if taken together, would equal my whole face once, and my cheeks a few times. I do, however, hope to shave with one more...possibly getting into the honing as well...in the near future.
As to WHY I'd want to shave with a straight vs all the other options? Well, that kinda goes back to when I was a kid...
My Grandpa died when I was very young. I have no real memories of him. But my Grandma had a shoebox full of some of his possessions that fascinated me. They included some of his safety razors, a shave brush, a Shulton Old Spice shave mug (milk glass with "Ship Friendship" I believe it's the older version without the tabs/ridges in the bottom. I have a second that I actually use). It also had my Great Grandpa's straight razor and strop. I used to bug her to get them out just about every time I went to visit. They went to my Dad when Grandma passed, and Dad gave them to me a few years before he passed. I actually use Grandpa's injector every now and then. Everything else it tucked away in a special place.
I also come of age at a very specific time. When I was young, I'd go to "Barber Jim" with my Dad on Saturday (usually about once a month). Jim's shop was a small place...a one-man operation with enough sitting space for 3-4 folks to wait their turn. Jim was probably one of the friendliest guys I've ever met...to this day.
I'd see all of the men... Dad occasionally included...get a straight razor shave. Of course, I didn't have anything to shave...I still had to have the booster when it was my turn. I guess I saw that shave with a straight razor as some kind of right-of-passage.
Fast-forward to me being old enough to take myself for a haircut before a date...and actually having whiskers to shave. I specifically asked for that treatment, but the regulations and insurance had tightened up so bad that Jim no longer offered the service.
Many years have gone by now. Male pattern baldness struck about 20 years ago, and I became a head shaver. I've moved from WV to PA. Just a few years ago...during my past B&B life...I received two straights and a strop in a very generous PIF. Unfortunately, life got in the way of me shaving with them much. But now, I occasionally get a day free when SWMBO and my little boy are out, so I've recently broke the straights back out, and I rather enjoy it.
But enough of the self-psychoanalysis. I have discovered two areas in which the straight outshines pretty much any form of removing facial hair that I've tried.
So I've decided to maintain a properly manicured beard for this winter...rather than just continuously letting it go and just letting myself look like a mountain man for the next several months.
So, starting from a month or so growth, I used the straight for shaping. Not only did the straight slice right through all of that growth, it allowed me to set my boundaries EXACTLY where I want them. This was far easier, quicker and neater than I'd be able to do with bare clippers and a DE or cartridge razor because I could see exactly where I was going to cut.
As to WHY I'd want to shave with a straight vs all the other options? Well, that kinda goes back to when I was a kid...
My Grandpa died when I was very young. I have no real memories of him. But my Grandma had a shoebox full of some of his possessions that fascinated me. They included some of his safety razors, a shave brush, a Shulton Old Spice shave mug (milk glass with "Ship Friendship" I believe it's the older version without the tabs/ridges in the bottom. I have a second that I actually use). It also had my Great Grandpa's straight razor and strop. I used to bug her to get them out just about every time I went to visit. They went to my Dad when Grandma passed, and Dad gave them to me a few years before he passed. I actually use Grandpa's injector every now and then. Everything else it tucked away in a special place.
I also come of age at a very specific time. When I was young, I'd go to "Barber Jim" with my Dad on Saturday (usually about once a month). Jim's shop was a small place...a one-man operation with enough sitting space for 3-4 folks to wait their turn. Jim was probably one of the friendliest guys I've ever met...to this day.
I'd see all of the men... Dad occasionally included...get a straight razor shave. Of course, I didn't have anything to shave...I still had to have the booster when it was my turn. I guess I saw that shave with a straight razor as some kind of right-of-passage.
Fast-forward to me being old enough to take myself for a haircut before a date...and actually having whiskers to shave. I specifically asked for that treatment, but the regulations and insurance had tightened up so bad that Jim no longer offered the service.
Many years have gone by now. Male pattern baldness struck about 20 years ago, and I became a head shaver. I've moved from WV to PA. Just a few years ago...during my past B&B life...I received two straights and a strop in a very generous PIF. Unfortunately, life got in the way of me shaving with them much. But now, I occasionally get a day free when SWMBO and my little boy are out, so I've recently broke the straights back out, and I rather enjoy it.
But enough of the self-psychoanalysis. I have discovered two areas in which the straight outshines pretty much any form of removing facial hair that I've tried.
So I've decided to maintain a properly manicured beard for this winter...rather than just continuously letting it go and just letting myself look like a mountain man for the next several months.
So, starting from a month or so growth, I used the straight for shaping. Not only did the straight slice right through all of that growth, it allowed me to set my boundaries EXACTLY where I want them. This was far easier, quicker and neater than I'd be able to do with bare clippers and a DE or cartridge razor because I could see exactly where I was going to cut.
For me, from the electric but hated it crowd, finding my Grandfather's Real Old English Razor along with the Raven barber hone he had used to keep it shave-ready inspired me to toss the electric, obtain and learn to use a Gillette TTO like the one that my Dad used, then learn how to hone and use the razor my Grandfather used before he switched to a three piece safety razor.
My Dad even gave me a gold Gillette TTO and a couple of blades when I first started shaving, but never showed me how to use it, with little success I briefly tried carts, then hated shaving with electrics for the next 40 years.
Just the thought that I could achieve a comfortable shave is what drew me to using a straight.
Keep at it and you will "get it". It just takes time, patience and around 100 shaves. You don't need to use your straight razor every day. Make it a special occasion. I really started noticing around 75 SR shaves that I had to pay less attention, started to relax as the blade was cutting without losing concentration. I started to feel "how" the blade was cutting, not just cutting. I took a year off and it came back almost right away. It is still about reduction, just like with a DE or SE.
~doug~
Not intending to derail the thread, but just to shed a tiny bit of light on the Amish. It is my understanding that they do not view modern technology as inherently evil and something to be avoided. Their choices regarding technology are about membership in a community, and agreeing to abide by community standards (like the terms of our participation in the B&B community).
Various Amish communities employ different technologies. Some allow driving gasoline automobiles, some allow refrigerators and other appliances running on kerosene. Manual pumps and gravity provide running water. Wind power can be utilized. Electricity and landline telephones are prohibited because they rely on a wired connection to the world outside the community. In short, the use of technology, as well as standards of dress, are symbols of their membership in a community.
Various Amish communities employ different technologies. Some allow driving gasoline automobiles, some allow refrigerators and other appliances running on kerosene. Manual pumps and gravity provide running water. Wind power can be utilized. Electricity and landline telephones are prohibited because they rely on a wired connection to the world outside the community. In short, the use of technology, as well as standards of dress, are symbols of their membership in a community.
The reason I use a straight is simple. I enjoy it. I enjoy the ritual of stropping, prep and the actual shave. I enjoy honing when I get around to it (that's why I have a collection of razors, to make a honing session worthwhile). Using a straight is my method of meditation.
Could I get as good a shave with a cart or DE razor? Absolutely. But I don't get the enjoyment from using them.
One could also ask why people prefer vinyl instead of CDs or other digital formats?
Could I get as good a shave with a cart or DE razor? Absolutely. But I don't get the enjoyment from using them.
One could also ask why people prefer vinyl instead of CDs or other digital formats?
For me, it's the quality of SR shaving, the fascination with the skill-set, and the added "zen" quality of taking the time to shave this way, that are the attractions. What I have found however, is that sooner or later, one has to confront another related skill-set, that of honing. I feel I reasonably master the blade (the shaving), but the honing stalled my straight razor adventure, and I returned to DE shaving. I find it so hard to get a *nice* edge, and I find it next to impossible to figure out where I go wrong in the honing process. It seems that the honing of straight razors is also a strangely elusive skill, "in the hands", not widely verbalized or taught (at least in a manner I have found useful). I find all this very fascinating, but also frustrating after the all the time and money I have spent just on straight razors, hones and strops, and I have sort of resigned to thinking that I will postpone my return to straight razors until retirement. At this point I simply don't have the time it takes (for me) to reach a level of mastery of the honing, to consistently get quality shaves. And there are no SR honing services in my neighbourhood.
Real reasons for using a straight razor:
1] far more comfortable shave and very close
2] no razor burn
3] less cuts (only 1) than any other type of reazor
4] Less waste to go into a landfill
5] It can be cost saving, but only in a decade or more.
6] It is meditative and relaxing. It helps get my head straight before the day begins.
7] Straight razors are works of art to enjoy, like a painting or a poem.
8] They are cool.
1] far more comfortable shave and very close
2] no razor burn
3] less cuts (only 1) than any other type of reazor
4] Less waste to go into a landfill
5] It can be cost saving, but only in a decade or more.
6] It is meditative and relaxing. It helps get my head straight before the day begins.
7] Straight razors are works of art to enjoy, like a painting or a poem.
8] They are cool.
+1! This was largely my experience during my excursion into straight shaving some years ago.
I went back to DE because I did not enjoy all the fiddling, etc. required to maintain the straights. To me, it seemed more of a ‘knife hobby’ than a grooming ritual. But that’s my take. YMMV for sure!
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