September 2023 Gentlemanly Restraint Until Month End (GRUME)

[FoolishMortal]

Question. Hypothetically, if someone places a bid on an eBay Gellett Red Tip item with an end date of September unbeknownst to the said bidder, and wins the auction the payment is due in September, what month does that count for? Would the hypothetical bidder be out for the September GRUME as the auction ends in September or in August because he pledged the money in August? Just a for-instance kind of question.

I have an opinion, but it is not necessarily correct. Since intent seems to be the issue in many cases, when did that intent occur? If a person bid in August, I would think that is when the person made the commitment, no matter when the payment is made. But it becomes complicated. If someone continued to bid into September would that person be out in September on the basis of the last bid, but still in for August? (I would think so). If someone bid and lost in August, would they be out of the August restraint? If someone started bidding on an item in August, but changed their mind and didn't continue to bid in August (or September) and let someone else win, would the person still be in for August? (I would think so, but it is different if someone commits to a sell and the seller renigs.) Again, in the past some of my opinions haven't always matched up with the rules as stated or interpreted, and, also, sometimes in ambiguous cases it is up to the person to determine whether they are in or out. Brandon? (@FoolishMortal)

That's...rough, and not really covered specifically. Here's my stream-of-consciousness answer:

@LJBraaten is right - intent, specifically the intention of gaining more - is what matters. Bidding on an auction listing is much like entering a PIF in that you're hoping to add to your den. If entering a PIF puts you out, it seems that bidding should put you out, too. The difference there, assuming you "cross months", is that you don't have a monetary cost if you win the PIF.

So, the second part is that we don't spend during the month. Putting your name on a waitlist for something doesn't put you out, but paying for the item when you name comes up does count against you.

Maybe there's a conflict in that? Is joining a waitlist the same as entering a PIF? In theory, you could decline to purchase when your waitlist name comes up, but you could also decline the PIF prize. And sure, maybe the seller backs out, but still - there was demonstrated intent to purchase. And how much of a leap is it from that to "I bought it but I returned it"? I don't think that's a valid way to stay in. Hmm...some thought needs to go into that, but I'm leaning toward the more stringent approach and making the waitlist an "out", too.

Okay, back to the actual question. As it stands, with a bid in August and payment in September, I feel that the bidder would be out in both August (intent) and September (spend). That sounds harsh, but it's in line with the rules, at least in my interpretation.

I'm happy to hear the thoughts of some of the other participants, especially those who have been around a while.

 

[cajunrph]

I have an opinion, but it is not necessarily correct. Since intent seems to be the issue in many cases, when did that intent occur? If a person bid in August, I would think that is when the person made the commitment, no matter when the payment is made. But it becomes complicated. If someone continued to bid into September would that person be out in September on the basis of the last bid, but still in for August? (I would think so). If someone bid and lost in August, would they be out of the August restraint? If someone started bidding on an item in August, but changed their mind and didn't continue to bid in August (or September) and let someone else win, would the person still be in for August? (I would think so, but it is different if someone commits to a sell and the seller renigs.) Again, in the past some of my opinions haven't always matched up with the rules as stated or interpreted, and, also, sometimes in ambiguous cases it is up to the person to determine whether they are in or out. Brandon? (@FoolishMortal)

I was thinking of a one-time bid in August, to me if you bid again in September then you should be out of the September GRUME. I am new here and I don't know the interpretation of the rules.

I see where @FoolishMortal chimed in, either way, you're out. What about restock day? Is buying a vintage razor considered an acceptable purchase on restock day?

 

[silverlifter]

What about restock day? Is buying a vintage razor considered an acceptable purchase on restock day?

Well, if you are replacing a broken or lost razor, it is a restock. If you are just adding to your den, it is more of a mestock...

 

[cajunrph]

Well, if you are replacing a broken or lost razor, it is a restock. If you are just adding to your den, it is more of a mestock...

Thanks, I'm getting the rules in so I know what to avoid. I may have screwed up on the eBay bidding already. Maybe someone will outbid me.

 

[Multum in parvo]

Thanks, I'm getting the rules in so I know what to avoid. I may have screwed up on the eBay bidding already. Maybe someone will outbid me.

Even if it is the case I’m sure you are not the first one to drop out on Day 1, right @FoolishMortal ?

 

[cajunrph]

Even if it is the case I’m sure you are not the first one to drop out on Day 1, right @FoolishMortal ?

I placed the bid in August, The auction won't end till the 4th so I will have at least three whole days in the GRUME. That's 10%. Better than 0%. Haha.

 

[BlacklistedPoet]

Still in. Shave posted in the SABER thread.

 

[FoolishMortal]

Well, if you are replacing a broken or lost razor, it is a restock. If you are just adding to your den, it is more of a mestock...

Holy garlic fries, that's right on the money!

 

[FoolishMortal]

Thanks, I'm getting the rules in so I know what to avoid. I may have screwed up on the eBay bidding already. Maybe someone will outbid me.

Even if it is the case I’m sure you are not the first one to drop out on Day 1, right @FoolishMortal ?

You're not wrong!

@cajunrph, you have the opportunity to limit the damage. You probably can't retract the bid - and you may not want to - so you might end up falling out of September. However, if that happens, you can re-commit to the concept and go 29-of-30 for the month, which still shows a fair bit of restraint. Taking a tumble doesn't have to mean the end of the race...unless you just choose to lay on the ground.

 

[LJBraaten]

Okay, back to the actual question. As it stands, with a bid in August and payment in September, I feel that the bidder would be out in both August (intent) and September (spend). That sounds harsh, but it's in line with the rules, at least in my interpretation.

I would think (or at least hope) that one wouldn’t be out two months for one purchase. Could intent/purchase be considered a single act, either part of this act would put a person out. But one can’t be out twice for the same act? How does that sound? Consider this: is a person who is going for 30 /31 days dinged twice in the same month, getting a 29/31 because they bid for (intent) and purchased that same item in the same month?

 

[cajunrph]

You're not wrong!

@cajunrph, you have the opportunity to limit the damage. You probably can't retract the bid - and you may not want to - so you might end up falling out of September. However, if that happens, you can re-commit to the concept and go 29-of-30 for the month, which still shows a fair bit of restraint. Taking a tumble doesn't have to mean the end of the race...unless you just choose to lay on the ground.

I don't want to retract the bid as there are negative consequences for that. I will recommit for 29 of 30 if my top bid isn't surpassed, I bid $36 on a 1959 Gillette Red Tip, at the time the high bid was $24.

Edit, I removed the link, not a good idea to entice others to fail. Please accept my apologies.

 

[iver]

Still in

 

[Guido75]

Even if it is the case I’m sure you are not the first one to drop out on Day 1, right @FoolishMortal ?

No, I have been the winner that prize in the past

 

[awk_m4]

Hi everyone
I put on my business hat and gave this some thought.

I joined September GRUME and committed to not making a single shaving related purchase this month.

In August I sent a brush out for a knot replacement. When the brush is ready I will have to pay for the transaction. In my opinion this wouldn't violate September GRUME because my committed spend was accounted for in August.
Same applies for auctions. If @FoolishMortal were to win the auction, the committed spend ought to be accounted for at the time the bid was placed and not when payment actually occurs.

Wondering what our experienced GRUME members think. Am I still in?

 

[FoolishMortal]

I would think (or at least hope) that one wouldn’t be out two months for one purchase. Could intent/purchase be considered a single act, either part of this act would put a person out. But one can’t be out twice for the same act? How does that sound? Consider this: is a person who is going for 30 /31 days dinged twice in the same month, getting a 29/31 because they bid for (intent) and purchased that same item in the same month?

Okay, so in this scenario, when is the person out - on the intent when the bid was placed, or on the purchase when the bid turned out to be a winner?

I have my own thoughts on that, but I'll wait...

[edit: I was typing this out while @awk_m4 posted his question above, which amounts to the same question. I'm curious to read what others think.]

 

[Guido75]

I'm happy to hear the thoughts of some of the other participants, especially those who have been around a while.

Not sure if I am around long enough to chime in, but this might be an opportunity to synchronize between different restraints.

The way I see it at least is similar to what is called accrual accounting in my field of work (as opposed to cash accounting). In accrual accounting you record the transaction upon entering into the commitment (in our case the intent). This way the whole transaction is recognized in the period of taking on the commitment (i.e. your balance sheet and your income statement), while the actual cash out is just a cashflow without hitting your income statement.

This only occurs when you enter in a bid obviously, because regular transactions can usually be completed in the same period or the same day even for example when you order online. Being out in the period of commitment and the period of payment then seems that you are convicted twice for the same crime. I believe the intent in a bid would also be to close the transaction asap, but you are not in control of the bidding process.

So I would favour being out when placing the bid and remaining in when making the payment. This would be consistent with GRUYERE - which obviously does not have to be our objective here, but it might help when GRUYERE brothers are with us during the monthly GRUMEs.

At least that's my 2cts. And if not, I might be out of September in a few days...

 

[silverlifter]

In August I sent a brush out for a knot replacement. When the brush is ready I will have to pay for the transaction. In my opinion this wouldn't violate September GRUME because my committed spend was accounted for in August.

My take is that the commitment to pay, or intent, is the trigger for bombing out. The money is spent and so is the willpower. Paying for the brush a month or so later is just an expression of that act, not a relapse.

 

[Multum in parvo]

My take is that the commitment to pay, or intent, is the trigger for bombing out. The money is spent and so is the willpower. Paying for the brush a month or so later is just an expression of that act, not a relapse.

+1 same as entering a PIF, it doesn’t matter if you win it or not.

 

[frogman1821]

No shave for day one, got a few orders in today so that satisfies me for today so looks like I’m not out on day 1.

 

[Calyshaver]

Holy Guacamole Batman, we need a GRUME attorney to answer all the GRUME legalities regarding intent, motive, and agency issues described above.