No Face Palms on demand seems like a reasonable strategy... <eg>Sorry i do not face palm on suggesting.
Quest for less technology
- Thread starter blethenstrom
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Evening Shave - 03/15/25
Shave Number: 487
Passes: 3
Razor: Gillette SuperSpeed TTO (D-2)
Blade: Personna Viking's Sword (6)
Soap: MdC Agrumes
Brush: RazoRock Plissoft RR400
Aftershave: Clubman Citrus Musk
Shave Comfort: 10/10 (Smooth)
Shave Quality: 10/10 (BBS)
Shave Rating: 10/10
That must have been the best shave I have had in a very long time!. It was so slick, wonderful and easy. I used a pre shave soap for the first time and I have to say that it made a difference. Fantastic shave and a great end to a week with the SuperSpeed.
Evening Shave - 03/16/25
Shave Number: 488
Passes: 3
Razor: Yintal Liveben V7 316L
Blade: Personna Viking's Sword (1)
Soap: MdC Agrumes
Brush: RazoRock Plissoft RR400
Aftershave: Clubman Lustray Blue Spice
Shave Comfort: 10/10 (Smooth)
Shave Quality: 9.5/10 (DFS++)
Shave Rating: 9.75/10
Not quite as comfortable shave as the previous one. I could tell that this was a fresh blade and I have to be a bit more careful not to stir up any irritation. Still I had a close shave.
Good morning fellow wet shavers! It is a great day today and a wonderful Monday. Yes I know it is the first day of another work week, but that is ok. It is still a great day!. This past weekend I had some great shaves and I tried something that I have not done before. I used my first ever pre shave soap. @Darth Scandalous graciously gifted me a piece of Stirling Unscented? pre shave soap and the time arrived for me to try it out. First off let me tell you that I have been somewhat skeptical to the usefulness of pre shave soaps. My thought may not have completely changed, but it certainly stirred up some thoughts in my head.
For Saturday evening's shave, which was the last shave on this blade and the last one with the SuperSpeed, I decided I needed to try out this pre shave soap that I was given. One of things that Matt and I spoke about was how this soap, which he uses more as a post shave soap left his skin a bit tacky. This might not be so strange once you study the ingredients a bit more
Stirling pre shave soap ingredients:
Coconut Oil, Distilled Water, Grapeseed Oil, RSPO (Sustainable) Palm Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Castor Oil, Almond Oil, Olive Oil, Vegetable Glycerin, Sodium Lactate
This looks like a pretty normal bath bar soap at the first glance. However, looking at it there are a lot of soft oils in there (these are oils that are liquid as room temperature and yield a softer end soap). These oils are also filled with oleic and linoleic fatty acid which are conditioning. Looks like our friend coconut oil is leading the pack so it will be pretty cleansing as well. Now the interesting thing is that glycerin is added to this. Normally glycerin is not added to a regular bath bar of soap, because it is a by product from saponification of oils. Yep artisan bath bar soaps have glycerin in them even if the ingredient list does not show it. Many commercial soap manufacturers strip out this glycerin and sell it separately, because it is more valuable sold that way. This is why many commercial bath soaps are drying to the skin. Anyways back to my topic.
Since Stirling adds glycerin to their pre shave soap it can be a bit tacky feeling afterwards. Try to put a bit of pure glycerin on your skin and you will see. Matt can probably notice this because he uses it as the last step in the shave process. Now this would not be noticed if you use it as a pre shave soap. There the glycerin should help you and your skin during the shave.
I decided to go all out with this pre shave soap. I used it indeed as a pre shave soap and washed my face with it and I could notice how mu skin ended up very slick and I was hmmm yes this might help the otherwise slightly drier MdC soap. Indeed I was correct in this. It made the MdC feel so much better and I had a great WTG firs pass. Then I pondered if it was good for the first pass why not add it between each pass right? I did and I also did not rinse off the pre shave soap before adding my lather for the next pass. Woow even slicker. It was a skating rink. It ended up such an easy shave and after I was done with my ATG pass I capped the shave with a full wash with the soap to see if my skin would be a bit tacky. Absolutely I could tell that the glycerin was there making it slightly tacky. However, my skin felt great and I was very very smooth. The tackiness went away fairly quickly and I was just left with a very nice nourished face.
For Sunday evening's shave I thought: is this all about slickness? I decided to instead use my regular homemade bath bar of soap as a pre shave soap. I repeated the test again just the same way. Granted I was using a different razor and a fresh blade, which might have thrown off my experiment a bit, and while it was slick I did not have the same skin feel. Now my bath bar of soap does not have the same amount of soft oils in it nor any extra glycerin added. This might mean that I might have to make some more soap. *smile*. I think the high levels of conditioning oils and glycerin in the pre shave soap made a difference.
This brings me to my conclusion and I have spoken of this before. Most shave soaps are not very conditioning and kind to the skin. Especially those that are just coconut, stearic acid based. Tallow based soaps have a leg up here because of the composition, but not so with a vegan soap base. You need to add oils/fats that makes it slicker and conditioning. I think you can do that and still have a great shave soap. I have ideas and I need to try them out.
It would be interesting to know if tallow based shave soap users are less likely to use pre shaves . Do you use specific pre shave soap? Which shave soaps are your go to? It would be very interesting to know if there is a correlation. Certainly in the olden days there was no such thing as a pre shave soap. Maybe she shave soap was all they needed.
Sorry for the lengthy post this morning. I just needed to jot down my thoughts.
Have a wonderful and blessed day everyone!
Shave Number: 487
Passes: 3
Razor: Gillette SuperSpeed TTO (D-2)
Blade: Personna Viking's Sword (6)
Soap: MdC Agrumes
Brush: RazoRock Plissoft RR400
Aftershave: Clubman Citrus Musk
Shave Comfort: 10/10 (Smooth)
Shave Quality: 10/10 (BBS)
Shave Rating: 10/10
That must have been the best shave I have had in a very long time!. It was so slick, wonderful and easy. I used a pre shave soap for the first time and I have to say that it made a difference. Fantastic shave and a great end to a week with the SuperSpeed.
Evening Shave - 03/16/25
Shave Number: 488
Passes: 3
Razor: Yintal Liveben V7 316L
Blade: Personna Viking's Sword (1)
Soap: MdC Agrumes
Brush: RazoRock Plissoft RR400
Aftershave: Clubman Lustray Blue Spice
Shave Comfort: 10/10 (Smooth)
Shave Quality: 9.5/10 (DFS++)
Shave Rating: 9.75/10
Not quite as comfortable shave as the previous one. I could tell that this was a fresh blade and I have to be a bit more careful not to stir up any irritation. Still I had a close shave.
Good morning fellow wet shavers! It is a great day today and a wonderful Monday. Yes I know it is the first day of another work week, but that is ok. It is still a great day!. This past weekend I had some great shaves and I tried something that I have not done before. I used my first ever pre shave soap. @Darth Scandalous graciously gifted me a piece of Stirling Unscented? pre shave soap and the time arrived for me to try it out. First off let me tell you that I have been somewhat skeptical to the usefulness of pre shave soaps. My thought may not have completely changed, but it certainly stirred up some thoughts in my head.
For Saturday evening's shave, which was the last shave on this blade and the last one with the SuperSpeed, I decided I needed to try out this pre shave soap that I was given. One of things that Matt and I spoke about was how this soap, which he uses more as a post shave soap left his skin a bit tacky. This might not be so strange once you study the ingredients a bit more
Stirling pre shave soap ingredients:
Coconut Oil, Distilled Water, Grapeseed Oil, RSPO (Sustainable) Palm Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Castor Oil, Almond Oil, Olive Oil, Vegetable Glycerin, Sodium Lactate
This looks like a pretty normal bath bar soap at the first glance. However, looking at it there are a lot of soft oils in there (these are oils that are liquid as room temperature and yield a softer end soap). These oils are also filled with oleic and linoleic fatty acid which are conditioning. Looks like our friend coconut oil is leading the pack so it will be pretty cleansing as well. Now the interesting thing is that glycerin is added to this. Normally glycerin is not added to a regular bath bar of soap, because it is a by product from saponification of oils. Yep artisan bath bar soaps have glycerin in them even if the ingredient list does not show it. Many commercial soap manufacturers strip out this glycerin and sell it separately, because it is more valuable sold that way. This is why many commercial bath soaps are drying to the skin. Anyways back to my topic.
Since Stirling adds glycerin to their pre shave soap it can be a bit tacky feeling afterwards. Try to put a bit of pure glycerin on your skin and you will see. Matt can probably notice this because he uses it as the last step in the shave process. Now this would not be noticed if you use it as a pre shave soap. There the glycerin should help you and your skin during the shave.
I decided to go all out with this pre shave soap. I used it indeed as a pre shave soap and washed my face with it and I could notice how mu skin ended up very slick and I was hmmm yes this might help the otherwise slightly drier MdC soap. Indeed I was correct in this. It made the MdC feel so much better and I had a great WTG firs pass. Then I pondered if it was good for the first pass why not add it between each pass right? I did and I also did not rinse off the pre shave soap before adding my lather for the next pass. Woow even slicker. It was a skating rink. It ended up such an easy shave and after I was done with my ATG pass I capped the shave with a full wash with the soap to see if my skin would be a bit tacky. Absolutely I could tell that the glycerin was there making it slightly tacky. However, my skin felt great and I was very very smooth. The tackiness went away fairly quickly and I was just left with a very nice nourished face.
For Sunday evening's shave I thought: is this all about slickness? I decided to instead use my regular homemade bath bar of soap as a pre shave soap. I repeated the test again just the same way. Granted I was using a different razor and a fresh blade, which might have thrown off my experiment a bit, and while it was slick I did not have the same skin feel. Now my bath bar of soap does not have the same amount of soft oils in it nor any extra glycerin added. This might mean that I might have to make some more soap. *smile*. I think the high levels of conditioning oils and glycerin in the pre shave soap made a difference.
This brings me to my conclusion and I have spoken of this before. Most shave soaps are not very conditioning and kind to the skin. Especially those that are just coconut, stearic acid based. Tallow based soaps have a leg up here because of the composition, but not so with a vegan soap base. You need to add oils/fats that makes it slicker and conditioning. I think you can do that and still have a great shave soap. I have ideas and I need to try them out.
It would be interesting to know if tallow based shave soap users are less likely to use pre shaves . Do you use specific pre shave soap? Which shave soaps are your go to? It would be very interesting to know if there is a correlation. Certainly in the olden days there was no such thing as a pre shave soap. Maybe she shave soap was all they needed.
Sorry for the lengthy post this morning. I just needed to jot down my thoughts.
Have a wonderful and blessed day everyone!
Fascinating to hear your thoughts on this as a soap maker. I think you might have just sold me on the benefits of trying a good preshave.
I have never believed that preshave soaps do anything special to prepare the whiskers, but I certainly believe they can help with overall shave performance. The skin conditioning aspects never occurred to me, but what you are hinting at is really interesting - i.e. a nice conditioning preshave could compensate for the lack of oleic oils in simple veggie soap bases. I think you might be onto something there!
It also suggests that all preshaves are definitely not created equal - a simple oil preshave probably isn't going to provide the full range of benefits compared to something like this Stirling preshave soap, or The Cube.
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Yeah I never really considered the potential benefits of a pre shave soap either, but things are starting to make a bit more sense to me now. I am currently working on a new recipe that will be vegan, but that I will try to highlight the conditioning aspects a bit better. It might mean that the lather is not going to be this billowy type lather, but I am starting to think more and more that that is not the end all be all either.
I don't think that many really looked at these aspects when they converted their tallow shave soaps to vegan based. What they should have done was to try to match the fatty acid profile to the tallow based soap and you would end up with very similar soap.
It is funny you mentioned a pre shave oil application. I was just thinking that that would be my next experiment. Not sure if that will have the same effect as the pre shave soap. A second experiment would be to just take a bit of glycerin and use it as a pre shave. That could be interesting too. I know that many likes to add a couple of drops of glycerin to the lather bowl while making the lather and I guess that could serve the same purpose. Lots of things to try....
I should clarify one thing. I started using the preshave soap as a postshave because it makes it easier to fully rinse some shave soaps off my face. The smoothness it imparts helps that process. I actually notice the tackiness a little more if I use it as a preshave and don't immediately get the lather going on my face, if it dries at all it kind of gums up the works unless I absolutely flood my face with water. But, it's all rather nit-picky. It's a nice soap and I also use it as a honing medium sometimes, and to lightly condition leather.
Great post, Boris!
I almost always use pre-shave. I've tried about a half dozen but one rises to the top quickly for me...Baume.be It's super slick and stays on my face through three full passes. Here are the ingredients:
- Capric/Caprilic Triglycerides, Glycerin, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis Oil, Cetearyl Ethylhexanoate, Water, Sucrose Laurate, parfum, Sucrose Stearate, Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil, Rosmarinus Officinalis Leaf Extract, Glycerin Soya Oil, Sucrose Palmitate, Beta-Carotene, Daucus Carota Sativa Root Extract, Tocopherol
I also use Grooming Dept pre-shave and sometimes PAA Cube, but the Baume.be is at another level. I would note that with the Baume.be, you need to be careful not to use more than a baby pea-sized amount. More than that and your lather will begin to suffer
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I can see this effecting the lather if you are not careful. Glycerin is pretty high up on the ingredient list. I sure that this will make it nice and slick feeling. I am sure you would feel the same tackiness with this if you let it dry on the skin.
If we now could combine it into a single shave soap that would eliminate the need for a pre shave soap, we would have something on our hands. Now if it gets too slick that might be a hindrance to straight razor shavers due to the need to skin stretch more than while using a DE. Is this correct? Summoning @Darth Scandalous is this true?
To a point... really it's only a problem for me with excessive *residual* slickness. Cremo, for instance. The problem with that product (for me) is twofold, not only is it slick on your face, forever, but also on your fingertips assuming you've used your hands to apply it.
The only soap I've used that approached that level of residual slickness was Tundra Artica and it was still manageable (maybe because it hadn't soaked into my fingertips). For whatever reason Dolomiti isn't quite the same.
But, even so there are workarounds. Some guys wrap a towel or washcloth around their fingertips to get more grip, others just rub their fingers on an alum block.
@thombrogan tuned me onto a cheap pre-shave method. Any bar of glycerin soap will do. I have used Pears as well as some Kiss My Face glycerin soap. Wet your clean face and lightly rub the soap over the areas you are going to shave. Using your fingers rub the soap and agitate it into a proto-lather. 20 seconds of this is fine - you don't have to over do it. Then lather up with your normal soap/creme and shave.
This adds a nice slick layer of protection. I don't do it every time. Just when I have skipped shaving for a few days.
This adds a nice slick layer of protection. I don't do it every time. Just when I have skipped shaving for a few days.
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- #5,230
You do not rinse it off before lathering right?
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That makes sense. Yeah Cremo is hard to rinse off. I still have most of mine left in the tube I bought in my first weeks of wet shaving. Never really grew on me.
Right. I'm looking around for some unscented glycerin soap so the smells don't clash.
I’ve used a few drops of glycerin and some water as a pre-shave and it really boosted the already enjoyable performance of VDH Luxury Scented and also boosted Canada Shaving Soap more than I would’ve expected.
And I got it from @Mr. Shavington who mentioned use of glycerin soaps and clay soaps to strip oil from whiskers for better hydration.
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Yep makes perfect sense. That right there probably adds a lot of slickness to your shaving soap and also helps with the skin feel. Especially if you use a shave soap that is lacking in those areas it can help to overcome those missing aspects. Thank you for you answer. That helps a lot.
I found this on Amazon one day.... I wonder if it's similar to or exactly the same as the Cube:
2 lbs?! You're trying to get me in trouble with my wife, sir. She is already raising her eyebrow at me with my various recent purchases.
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- #5,237
Yes I am not surprised that glycerin worked well in those situations as well. Canada Shaving Soap is actually very close in formulation to the MdC, so adding glycerin and it helping makes perfect sense.
The glycerin soap term has always had me a bit baffled since glycerin is always the by-product of saponification of oils/fats. I did finally look it up. It is saponified soap with its natural glycerin and then they add more glycerin. The transparency of a lot of them comes from a special process where they treat the soap with alcohol and they have no superfat in them. Superfatting a soap will leave it opaque. I can see this soap being a good choice for pre shave. It is mild and it will provide a good amount of glycerin for the skin.
One additional good thing regarding glycerin soap. Since it has no superfat it CANNOT clog your pores. This is actually a very nice benefit. *sigh* now I have so make glycerin soap as well.
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Does the cube have charcoal? I made a charcoal soap for my dear wife and she uses it for her facial soap. She seems to like it. It is messy to make though. The activated charcoal goes everywhere.
I know the use of pre-shave soaps has been a controversy here since I joined 3 years ago.... Some are adamant that it serves no benefit... Others, like me, swear by it... .I did a lot of tests early on... with, without... along with showering before shaving and after.... I did settle on the same routine Jim / @Chan Eil Whiskers uses.... Shower first.. two applications of the Cube or Stirling pre-shave, in the shower, as I wash my face twice anyway.... Then I borrowed the routine from @BobbyB and started applying the pre-shave with a brush.... because I have both Stirling and the Cube melted into a CC Soap Locker... The brush is already loaded, so I use pre-shave between each pass... I know none of us have exactly the same density and coarseness of whiskers... but my old man, grey, dense and coarse.... need all the help they can get to soften them up before they see a razor blade edge. <eg>
I do have Baume.be pre-shave and agree with Mark, it's one excellent product...Not always easy to find, but again, as Mark said, you don't need much. I still have the Grooming Department unscented pre-shave as well... Also an excellent product.
I only let the pre-shave sit on my face long enough for me to lather up the selected soap in my shaving bowl... I never let it dry and I put it on pretty wet anyway...
On another note: I dislike Cremo intensely..... I hate the residue it leaves on both my hands after applying it and getting ready to actually shave... and the post shave feel is horrible... It's almost impossible for me to get off my face. <eg>
I do have Baume.be pre-shave and agree with Mark, it's one excellent product...Not always easy to find, but again, as Mark said, you don't need much. I still have the Grooming Department unscented pre-shave as well... Also an excellent product.
I only let the pre-shave sit on my face long enough for me to lather up the selected soap in my shaving bowl... I never let it dry and I put it on pretty wet anyway...
On another note: I dislike Cremo intensely..... I hate the residue it leaves on both my hands after applying it and getting ready to actually shave... and the post shave feel is horrible... It's almost impossible for me to get off my face. <eg>
Yeah... the Cube 2.0 and the Tube 2.0 both have charcoal in them... They are available in menthol and non-mentholated.. I use the non-mentholated... due to my skin issues. To get free shipping, I bought several Cube 2.0s along with some shampoo pucks, but the next time around, I'm going to try the melt and pour soap base.... I do wonder if I'll notice any difference... It's about half the cost of the Cube 2.0. You'll just make your own. <eg>
