Natural Beats Synthetic in water retention?

[AimlessWanderer]

I don't fully understand why water retention is an issue for some people's brush choices. I do want plenty of water in my lather, but don't need my brush to retain water separately, or prior to loading. If at any point, I need more water, I'll just dip the tips in the mug to collect some.

I should probably clarify that. I have a mug of water on the back of the sink that's treated with a little pinch of citric acid. I use that for the lather, rather than soften a whole sink full of water.

So whether it's hydrating the initial lather, of hydrating further on subsequent passes, I prefer to add as needed, as I go along. Doesn't matter to me whether that's boar, badger, or synthetic. What the lather needs, the lather gets.

 

[SamplingNature]

I love my Omega boar I've used for more than ten years now and prefer it over my badger. I use my synthetic to dust my keyboard.

I'm still using my 12-year-old boar brush from the VDH soap/bowl/brush set I started with. Two badgers and a synth tend to just hang out in the medicine cabinet.

The synth is probably gonna ride in my seldom-used travel bag...

 

[Robertsr]

I've got a few synthetics as my daily drivers, and a natural that I travel with (it's the perfect size for my shaving kit)

The amount of water the daily synthetics retain is vastly different. I have one that sucks up WAY more than the other, and have to adjust my technique when I decide to use "Brush A" instead of "Brush B" on any given day.

So it's been my experience that water retention isn't just a function of synthetic vs. natural, but varies inside those categories as well.

A rabbit hole indeed!

 

[NorthernSoul]

Boar IN the shower?

 

[NorthernSoul]

My understanding is the Plis part of Plissoft is in reference to the kind of fiber that Plisson first came out with. I think The Italian Barber RR brushes are called that in homage to those first knots. It's since become a generic term for any brush that uses this fiber. Anyone, please feel free to correct me.

I think that's right. Plissoft was named after Plisson, but it's a name that originated with Razorock.

Sythetics and naturals retain water by a different principle. Synthetic fibers don't absorb water, per se. They retain water by surface tension along the fiber. There's a limit to how much water can be held by the knot, this is why you see complaints about excess water spilling out, etc. It's generally better with synths to start with the knot only damp, load the soap, then very gradually add more water to avoid overloading the brush.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

I don't fully understand why water retention is an issue for some people's brush choices. I do want plenty of water in my lather, but don't need my brush to retain water separately, or prior to loading. If at any point, I need more water, I'll just dip the tips in the mug to collect some.

I should probably clarify that. I have a mug of water on the back of the sink that's treated with a little pinch of citric acid. I use that for the lather, rather than soften a whole sink full of water.

So whether it's hydrating the initial lather, of hydrating further on subsequent passes, I prefer to add as needed, as I go along. Doesn't matter to me whether that's boar, badger, or synthetic. What the lather needs, the lather gets.

Yup, exactly what I was trying to say a few posts ago. This is exactly the technique I settled on. It's efficient and intuitive. What could be better?

Judging by the responses, we seem to be in the minority, however

... Thom

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I don't fully understand why water retention is an issue for some people's brush choices. I do want plenty of water in my lather, but don't need my brush to retain water separately, or prior to loading. If at any point, I need more water, I'll just dip the tips in the mug to collect some.

I should probably clarify that. I have a mug of water on the back of the sink that's treated with a little pinch of citric acid. I use that for the lather, rather than soften a whole sink full of water.

So whether it's hydrating the initial lather, of hydrating further on subsequent passes, I prefer to add as needed, as I go along. Doesn't matter to me whether that's boar, badger, or synthetic. What the lather needs, the lather gets.

This is what I do as well (except that I dip the tips in the stream from the tap). Works great for all brush types, soaps or creams, face or bowl lathering. It's always easier to sneak up on the proper hydration. And regardless of how I've built the lather (face or bowl) the final tweaking of the hydration consistency happens on my face.

 

[Zora]

I have gone to all synth brushes and don’t miss naturals. Stay with the STF or similar knots and you can’t go wrong.

 

[BanjoDadPDX]

In

Only one badger in my travels - a non descript brush my wife put in front of me. While I had nothing to compare it against, it was unremarkable.

Surfing over here, I decided on a Mühl STF (25mm) for my first brush.

The face lathering technique I've adopted involves dipping the tip so the center section (about 1/2 of the bulb) is in the water (say, 7mm deep).

I'll load the brush directly from the soap container and proceed with face lathering. Dip to add water as needed. So, I found a good use for my lathering bowl ;-)

I don't see any water running out the bottom of thd brush. This holds true for my AP Shave Co Synbad knot as well. Reports of lather flinging also aren't in my experience window.

I can't comment about bowl lathering. I find myself having a tendency to whip up lather that has too much air in it - like all too many photos I see posted here. I'm sure I'd nail bowl lathering if I pursued it but I find that face lathering gives me more immediate feedback when I've over hydrated, so pursuing it doesn't hold my curiosity. I'm sure that boredom/curiosity will set in at some point, and I'll explore it just for the helluvit ;-)

... Thom

Interesting. So you don't fully submerge your synthetic brush? I'll try that.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

Interesting. So you don't fully submerge your synthetic brush? I'll try that.

That's correct. This is with Cella Red and Haslingers Schafmilch - here in the Colorado Front Range. Our water isn't very hard, so take that into consideration.

I'm typically using a Mühle STF, 25mm brush, and I dip the brush so about the center 1/3 to 1/2 of the bulb's tip is submerged (perhaps 7-10 mm deep at most in the center).

I give the brush about 100 swirls in the container and paint on what amounts to a very dry lather. I'll typically do one more dip, paint some more to distribute the water, and begin swirling (face lathering).

I'll bet my lather (if done in a bowl) would look pitiful in comparison with all of the "glamor shots" people post with their bowls.

I initially followed those examples, going for huge volume. I'd get this airy whipped cream consistency and not very good lubrication/protection.

I guess people call the consistency I get to be yougurt-like, as opposed to the glamour/whipped cream consistency.

I can't speak to other soaps, as I'm not much of an experimenter in this regeard. Likely, when I finish the Cella I'll stick with the Haslingers Schafmilch. I like the Cella, but I love the Haslingers.

... Thom

 

[Big Jim]

To the OP.

When I started using Silvertip Badger I had trouble with water dripping off my elbow until I got used to regulating the amount of water used to make lather. When I started using synthetic brushes I had the same problem but overcame it quickly.

Just use your synthetic for a few days and you will probably figure it out.

 

[Doc Dan]

That's correct. This is with Cella Red and Haslingers Schafmilch - here in the Colorado Front Range. Our water isn't very hard, so take that into consideration.

I'm typically using a Mühle STF, 25mm brush, and I dip the brush so about the center 1/3 to 1/2 of the bulb's tip is submerged (perhaps 7-10 mm deep at most in the center).

I give the brush about 100 swirls in the container and paint on what amounts to a very dry lather. I'll typically do one more dip, paint some more to distribute the water, and begin swirling (face lathering).

I'll bet my lather (if done in a bowl) would look pitiful in comparison with all of the "glamor shots" people post with their bowls.

I initially followed those examples, going for huge volume. I'd get this airy whipped cream consistency and not very good lubrication/protection.

I guess people call the consistency I get to be yougurt-like, as opposed to the glamour/whipped cream consistency.

I can't speak to other soaps, as I'm not much of an experimenter in this regeard. Likely, when I finish the Cella I'll stick with the Haslingers Schafmilch. I like the Cella, but I love the Haslingers.

... Thom

Yep, yogurt is what you want. The other is for show, but as you pointed out, doesn't have much protection or lubrication.

 

[slyfox279]

I’ve got 20 synthetic brushes and non of them fling lather not even the 34mm hulk brush. They all make enough lather for 3-4 passes.

 

[Doc Dan]

I’ve got 20 synthetic brushes and non of them fling lather not even the 34mm hulk brush. They all make enough lather for 3-4 passes.

34mm? Where? I might want one. My largest is 30mm, though I have access to a 75mm.

 

[slyfox279]

34mm? Where? I might want one. My largest is 30mm, though I have access to a 75mm.

Razorock hulk

RazoRock THE HULK Plissoft Synthetic Shaving Brush – ItalianBarber

THE HULK is an absolutely massive Plissoft brush! Take note the dimensions below. The knot size is 34 mm by 70 mm and the total height of the brush is a...

www.italianbarber.com

I saw a 75mm and was tempted til I saw it was like $250 and probably couldn’t shave with it lol I use the hulk with my stirling soaps as they big enough for it to fit.

 

[Doc Dan]

I like big knots. How is the knot?

Yaqi makes a 75mm Tuxedo knot that isn't expensive at all.

 

[Markdad2]

I have used two different badgers,and a couple boars. I got rid of them and only use synthetic brushes now. Natural fibers do retain more water, but, in my experience synthetic brushes make a better lather, for me.

 

[BanjoDadPDX]

I think that's right. Plissoft was named after Plisson, but it's a name that originated with Razorock.

Sythetics and naturals retain water by a different principle. Synthetic fibers don't absorb water, per se. They retain water by surface tension along the fiber. There's a limit to how much water can be held by the knot, this is why you see complaints about excess water spilling out, etc. It's generally better with synths to start with the knot only damp, load the soap, then very gradually add more water to avoid overloading the brush.

Yeah that makes sense. Well put.

 

[BanjoDadPDX]

I like big knots. How is the knot?

Yaqi makes a 75mm Tuxedo knot that isn't expensive at all.

24mm.

 

[Rudy Vey]

Razorock hulk

RazoRock THE HULK Plissoft Synthetic Shaving Brush – ItalianBarber

THE HULK is an absolutely massive Plissoft brush! Take note the dimensions below. The knot size is 34 mm by 70 mm and the total height of the brush is a...

www.italianbarber.com

I saw a 75mm and was tempted til I saw it was like $250 and probably couldn’t shave with it lol I use the hulk with my stirling soaps as they big enough for it to fit.

Do you mean 75 mm diameter?? That brush with an appropriate sized handle would be hard to hold. Never seen anything offered larger than 38 mm.