My Park Aves. Defective? Or did I mistreat them?

[BillyBee]

At 68 years old, Ihave never hav vibran 1/2 soles, and have never experienced that problem. I have worn holes through the outer soles. For some of us who live and work on carpeted floors vibram soles are not all that good, they can catch and trip you up where a leather sole will slide a bit. I also prefer a leather sole when I hit a wet vinyl type floor, it grips better there and does not tend to slip like a rubber sole.

Well Jeff, you and I are about the same age but the big difference is you work and walk mostly on carpets and I would agree the vibram is difficult. I have had many pairs of leather soled shoes over my lifetime (some more expensive and better made than AE) and have worn holes through the vibram and sole. Having said that, I get to a point with my all leather shoes that they become like slippers and I would dread losing them. Shoes have a finite life. The vibram gives me many many years out of them.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

A&E has been hit& miss since they were sold in 2006. I just recently gave them another shot but have not had long to give an informed opinion. I have used them &Alden since the 60s & have never had that happen to the sole. Take nicks above advice as I gave it to him, if you do that you never have to worry about having to resole as it is hard to find a good cobbler these days.

 

[Matt S]

I agree that it's odd, but I've had similar experiences with the AE shoes that I've owned. I haven't had the same issue with any of the british made shoes that I own though. It has a lot to do with the profile of the sole, and whether or not the shoe ever gets worn wet.

There are a few factors that are still unspecified. How much wear did the shoes get before they went into regular rotation? How heavy is the OP? What kind of ground is the OP walking on? How fast is the OP walking? Is the OP running to and from his car? There's a lot of wear to the sole at the toe, but relatively little at the heel. This is typical for runners who don't heel strike.

There are only a couple of pictures, but to me it looks like the leather sole is just plain worn out. If that's the case it's not a defect, or necessarily abuse. Just accelerated wear over a seven month period. The pictures make it look like there's relatively little wear to the heel, which leads me to suspect that the shoes were worn in wet weather, or that the OP is a bigger guy who possibly has an unusual gait.

To the OP, I'd have the shoes resoled with a Dainite-style rubber sole. It's more suitable for shoes that may be worn in rainy or wet conditions. I believe that Vibram makes a similar sole called the Eton, so you should be able to find something locally. The Allen Edmonds redrafting service is top notch, but unnecessarily expensive. Find someone good locally to do the work and you'll save a fair margin.

Sorry for my absence, I was away for a few days. To answer your questions:

I basically wore them for a few occasions where I needed a suit prior to April. They were probably worn 5-6 times.

I'm the opposite of heavy. 140 lbs probably following last week.

I walk a couple blocks morning and evening to my parking garage. Concrete sidewalk, brick pavers, some pavement. Inside I am on tile or carpet. I tend to walk fast I guess.

I wear the heel in a manner where the view from behind shows more wear on the outer side.

They have seen some wet weather, but not much. Maybe 5-6 occasions. I will wear my older Johnston and Murphy shoes if I know rain is in the forecast, but the DC area was in a drought for most of the year. A couple times where rain was unexpected, I have the option of taking the subway to my car, and do.

I'll probably look for a cobbler. There has to be good one somewhere in the area. I bought the shoes with the idea of using the recrafting service someday, but I guess I might have to forego that to keep them in one piece now. The rest of the shoe looks good, so it'd be silly to send them in now.

 

[Doc4]

They were probably worn 5-6 times.

I'm the opposite of heavy. 140 lbs probably following last week.

I walk a couple blocks morning and evening to my parking garage. Concrete sidewalk, brick pavers, some pavement. Inside I am on tile or carpet.

I think we got thrown off by your comment about owning the shoes for a couple years, and didn't catch on to how seldom you actually wore the shoes.

There is no way in aich ee double hockeysticks that the shoes should be doing *that* after 6 wearings of the sort you describe. AE should fix them free of charge for you.

 

[Matt S]

I think we got thrown off by your comment about owning the shoes for a couple years, and didn't catch on to how seldom you actually wore the shoes.

There is no way in aich ee double hockeysticks that the shoes should be doing *that* after 6 wearings of the sort you describe. AE should fix them free of charge for you.

5-6 times prior to me switching jobs in April, they've seen action 4-5 times a week since. So they've had ~8 months of fairly "heavy" use by now.

 

[strop]

I still don't think they should have failed in that manner. I've worn dress shoes every day for over 30 years...Florsheim, and Bostonian 20 to 30 y ago, J&M for years and more recently AE, and have never had a pair do that.

IIRC, you can just get them resoled/heeled without a rebuild for AE

 

[cb91710]

While it seems logical that the stitching would wear out, I have never experienced this with any leather soled shoe. The sole gets thin in the middle long before there is any hint of separation.

Ditto.

I blew the heels and holed the sole of one of my Strands after less than 6 months... lasted about twice as long as the heels on my $100 Florsheim pair.
I now own a pair of McAllisters that I alternate with the Strands, and wear deck shoes on "casual Friday" to save the AEs.

As far as recrafting, I've got a kind old cobbler across the street from my office who did a complete resole/heel of the Strands for $65 and had them ready in 2 days.
My only complaint was he used brown edge dressing and it took a few weeks for my black dressing to take over and hold.

The McAllisters are the AE hybrid sole, we'll see how long they last, but I really prefer the leather soles.

Incidentally, I had worn the channel completely down and through the threads and my soles were not separating... I just had a hole in the middle of one.

 

[jdto]

At 68 years old, Ihave never hav vibran 1/2 soles, and have never experienced that problem. I have worn holes through the outer soles. For some of us who live and work on carpeted floors vibram soles are not all that good, they can catch and trip you up where a leather sole will slide a bit. I also prefer a leather sole when I hit a wet vinyl type floor, it grips better there and does not tend to slip like a rubber sole.

Well Jeff, you and I are about the same age but the big difference is you work and walk mostly on carpets and I would agree the vibram is difficult. I have had many pairs of leather soled shoes over my lifetime (some more expensive and better made than AE) and have worn holes through the vibram and sole. Having said that, I get to a point with my all leather shoes that they become like slippers and I would dread losing them. Shoes have a finite life. The vibram gives me many many years out of them.

Another observation on this point is that we could have a look at our locations. I, like BillyBee, am in Toronto and I also always get a rubber outsole over my leather. Our winters can be hard on shoes, even if you don't wear them in the snow. They put rock salt all over our sidewalks and you're going to step on it, even when there isn't actually snow on the ground, which will chew through leather soles in no time. Even if you get the rubber put on them, leather soles are still more comfortable, as I find they tend to mould a bit better and, well, I just like the feel of my shoes with leather soles, even covered with rubber, than the ones with full rubber.

 

[Matt S]

Just going to revive my thread for one question. Feel free to tell me to stop being OCD and enjoy my repaired shoes.

So I got the shoes back from AE re-crafting over the weekend and while looking them over I notice this gouge in the welt. Was it there before? I can't say absolutely no, but I don't remember it. It does still appear to have stitching there. My question is if this matter for the future longevity of the shoe, and if it was there prior to re-crafting, should it have been repaired? Overall the shoes look great, I got the rubber sole now, and they even got off a white scuff I had on the side that I could not clean up. Just wondering if this gouge is something I should care about.

 

[StillShaving]

I think that is at the edge of being normal. That is where the stitch started and ended, which is started at the instep so that when it comes back around to meet it will be less noticeable. Functionally wise I think the construction is fine and should hold up. But I agree that the fit and finish should have been better.

I own a few pairs of A&E and can see where the stitching begins and ends on all pairs but none are quite that noticeable. Where some of the individual shoes have small nicks in the middle sole like yours, but not as noticeable...which could also be a function of camera angle. Meaning when looking down from above I don't think it will be an issue, even though i would also want a better finished shoe.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

Guys, they were sold in 2006 & they are not nearly as well crafted as they were in years past. I have used A&E & Alden since the late 60s. I have purchased three pair since the sale in 2006 & they are not anywhere near the quality of the older ones. They are still good shoes but I remember when they stood head to toe with anyone else. Rumor has it that they are about to be sold again. I hope this is not the case & they continue to get their act back together.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

Matthew, you should ask them to replace those shoes. I just looked at your photo above. That is terrible craftsmanship. I don't know if you ordered online or bought them from Larry at Paul simon in Charlotte but Larry would replace those shoes no questions asked.

 

[cb91710]

My McAllisters have a similar "crack" right at the front edge of the heel on both shoes.
Perhaps it is "the new normal" but it is not right.
I didn't bother returning mine because I ended up getting my first pair (Strands) resoled and re-heeled after about 6 months.
I expected to wear the heels, as I'm hard on them, but I did not expect to hole the sole.

Now that I'm alternating the Strands and McAllisters every other day, with deck shoes on "casual Friday"... they still aren't wearing much better.
I started alternating last July when I bought the McAllisters and resoled the Strands... I just re-heeled the McAllisters 2 weeks ago.
So far the resoled Strands are holding up wonderfully. I can see some wear on the heels, but it's nowhere near as bad as the original parts.

I've got a nice old Armenian cobbler with a shop across the street from my office.
$55 for new soles and heels on the Strands, complete with a nice polish.

 

[Matt S]

Grayson - They were refurbished by Allen Edmonds.

I noticed it when I took them out of the box to inspect and noticed something wasn't right on the one shoe, especially noticeable when new and shiny. Note, it is only on the one shoe, the other one is fine.

Like I said, it looks like the stitch is still there, so I'm on the fence about expending the effort to bring them to the store I dropped them at and asking if they think that is acceptable. I'm sure the guy will just say yes, or question if it was there before, to which I cannot certainly say now. Maybe I make the trek down to the one Alden store in the area next time.

Heck I had a Brooks Brothers suit that was supposed to be ready yesterday and I went in to get it and they put their hands in the air and go "its not here". I guess you can't rely on any store anymore.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

Matt, try Paul at fairclough & company for clothes & he carries Alden shoes. A&E should replace those shoes of yours. It makes me sick what some of these fine old companies have become. All the best Matt. Grayson

 

[Matt S]

Just an update, I emailed a photo of the notch to AE Recrafting customer service and asked if it was normal and would affect the long-term viability of my shoe. Their response is that it is normal, as that is where the welt is joined, and should have no effect on the shoe. So we'll see I guess.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

I don't think Alden or Crockett & Jones would tell you its normal but it's up to you how far you push the issue. Good luck Matt.

 

[graysonhenryrussell]

One other thought. You are in sales & own your company as I do. Since I went in business for myself in 1980 I have never argued with a customer if they complained about a product even if they were wrong. This has served me well. I know you said you bought these online. Had you got them from Paul Simon , this post would not exist, they would have been replaced long ago. Larry will give any discounts that the Allen Edmonds site has, so that gives you something to think about on future purchased. Best. Grayson

 

[cb91710]

+1

The boss at my last job always said "The customer is not always right, but they are always the customer"
He has been one of the most successful traffic signal equipment salesmen in SoCal. In his boom in 2000-2004, he was grossing nearly 10m/year in sales out of a 5-person sales office (2 sales, 2 techs) and basically supporting San Jose HQ (50 people with production).

 

[LogisticEarth]

Guys, they were sold in 2006 & they are not nearly as well crafted as they were in years past. I have used A&E & Alden since the late 60s. I have purchased three pair since the sale in 2006 & they are not anywhere near the quality of the older ones. They are still good shoes but I remember when they stood head to toe with anyone else. Rumor has it that they are about to be sold again. I hope this is not the case & they continue to get their act back together.

They were sold again in late 2013, but just to another equity firm. All the company leadership has stayed the same at the moment, and it's all still made in the same factories in the US. The quality problems I've heard of stem from times of rushed production, to keep up with orders. However, everything I've heard has supported the idea that they're all about making any problems right again. At the ~$300 price point, you'll have to look hard to find better. Aldens are good but they are priced a bit higher.